OutlawVinegar

I've seen Yosukes try that a few times and drop it in videos so far. Good to know it was just execution errors on their part. We can combo AoA~D midscreen, that sounds really cool. On an aside, we can also apparently loop 5AAA mash in Sukukaja a little. Is new the Suku auto-combo still dash-cancelable? If so, I can see us having an almost totally Burst-safe combo with it this way. Also, maybe the new AUB tech punish option?

Merry Christmas Dustloop people! ...With that out of the way, I'm going to throw some scattered thoughts and observations out there, based on what gameplay I've sen from videos. Hopefully one thing or the other will spark more gameplay-related discussion. General: Collapsed: System changes + flow changes: Most of the new autocombos I've seen seem to be very good at catching jumpouts; Mitsuru, Kanji, Teddie, Yosuke, Labrys, all these became better at doing damage, gaining meter, and getting the positioning the character wants. Kanji and Yosuke get knockdown, Mitsuru and Teddie get a lot of corner carry, etc. The First Attack meter bonus is interesting. Does getting the first hit give a Burst meter bonus as well? Also, ArcSys, fix your throw system. Attempting a throw on the opponent counts as a First Hit, even if the defender techs it! Very little use of Guard-cancel rolls so far. Hop-cancels also aren't being used as much, a month or so in. SB Supers are extremely dumb-looking. Giving them extra properties is fine by me, but the extra damage seems a bit much. I'd prefer that everyone get a health boost to compensate, because several Supers already did 45-50% on the cast in P4A. Characters: Collapsed: Narukami: Narukami: I'm finding it cathartic, seeing all the Narukami players struggle because they actually have to play neutral now. He still looks like an exceedingly strong character, so I'm certain he's going to stay in Top 5 or right below that at worst. His command grab/charge seems moderately useful. It's only being used sparingly, which implies to me that it can be mashed out of pretty easily. It's probably a tool best used after you've forced some respect out of your opponent. His Raging Lion feint looks a lot more useful. Collapsed: Yukiko: Yukiko: Looks like she'll be the new Naoto. No, by that I don't mean everyone's going to claim she sucks and sleep on her options. She looks like the sort of character who can abruptly steal the round with ease. Naoto had her SMP loop, Yukiko has her 5AAA > Fire Break reset, which I've already seen breaking 6k damage in total for around 75 meter. That said, even though I think the tech is slightly dumb, I'm sure once people figure out how to stop getting hit by some of the Fire Break stuff (Guard Cancel roll if you think she's going to do a 5C>2C blockstring into UB!) she's going to remain a strong character, much better than she already was in P4A. The utility of Fire Break looks dangerous now; just having the buff up is going to let her control the opponent's actions much more easily. Also, her new special move with the Fire Level 6 requirement? It looks really good, but the drawbacks of gaining Fire levels haven't been addressed at all, so it's probably not going to be a viable option at all in half her matchups. The ones where I can see her getting it, though... Akihiko, Kanji, Labrys, Junpei, Yukari? Collapsed: Labrys: Labrys: Not a ton of footage for her out there, but PurePure seems to have figured out some stuff. Her new bubble move has potential! It's useable like a second version of her 22x moves for combo/hitstun fodder, and maybe it will have other applications? Did her Sweep get buffed? It looks faster and safer now. Or at least fewer people are punishing it. Collapsed: Junpei: Junpei: Looks hype. I want to see this character in EVO 2014-2015 Top 8, because I'm sure he'd get the crowd going if someone played him at a really high level; Clean Hits, Home Runs, and baseball slides all the way to Grand Finals. That said, I'm not sure what to make of him. He looks cool, he's got some blatantly good normals and his Persona covers some spectacular angles for neutral, but he seems like an alternate Labrys. Very momentum-based, with a middle-of-the-road or maybe slightly bad DP. The throw system in this game also seems to work against his 'runs' 100% (attempting a throw and getting it teched counts as a hit against him, and teching a throw attempt still counts as a hit against him). Collapsed: Yukari: Yukari: Great damage from what I'm seeing in videos, decent fullscreen options, very good midscreen control, and very dangerous to approach from the air. That's cool and all... But where is this character's mixup? Her AoA seems above-average for sure, and her 5A appears to hit low, but outside of that? It looks like most of the people losing to her are getting pecked at in neutral, then lose because they don't know how to chase her down yet. Either that, or they're losing to her one strong mixup; Mahagaru nonsense. That Super looks extremely dumb but it seems to even out, because before she hits Awakening Yukari doesn't seem to have any actual way of opening people up. Also her 5B (single arrow shot) seems to be low-profiled by half the cast just running forward (I've seen it miss Kanji and Chie 'dodge' it this way). Lower your aim a bit, girl. Collapsed: Sho: Regular (R-)Sho: Seems like the old Yosuke a little. Really low damage on individual hits, crappy health, and a very flat gameplan. Throwing knives and having a dodge move with invul don't help the resemblance, either. I want to see someone find something interesting with this character. Also, good job ArcSys, making his Awakening Super the new Garudyne. It does almost 5k if you hit it raw CH, but put even one 5A/2A before it and the damage drops to nothing. 900 minimum damage or something?

...Just... do a regular airthrow or a backwards airthrow, based on where you want the opponent to go. Chie's ground throw swaps sides, and it's never been an issue for her.

【P4U2】 Game Chariot matches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mMV2uXCxL4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjsdYrd00do

As always, consider that most gameplay that we see does not encompass all gameplay in arcades. There are surely plenty of people playing Shadow characters, but little footage of it. As for why that is, it's just speculation, but the reduced damage dealt doesn't seem like it would be a dealbreaker. However, the lack of Burst and moreso the lack of Awakening are probably bigger factors. Even with damage supposedly toned down, for most of the cast with 8500 or less health, a single mistake immediately can put you close to a loss. From airthrows that do nearly 2000 damage to decent CH confirms for 3000-4000 or FCs/swag 100+ meter combos that go for even more, plus no Burst to save you if you mess up... Add in that most SB Awakening Supers do downright stupid damage if they connect. From what little I've seen, playing P4Suplex as a normal character is like playing an Arcsys game. Playing P4Suplex as a Shadow character seems a lot more like you're playing a mix of Chaos Code and Samurai Shodown.

Thanks for the info as always, SoWL. Most of the above changes have a mixture of BB/GG/Melty-sounding mechanics between them. Burning a tertiary resource to power up Supers, though, is interesting. Being totally fair, AoAs have guard point, not Super Armor, from 'x' frames to 'x' frames. A single hit of Super Armor in this case makes it more like an amalgam AoA + Focus Attack from the description. Looking forward to another influx of loketest videos for this! I have little to no investment in the series covered so far, but I could say the same for P4A. Definitely curious to see how this develops.

It also has visibly longer startup and recovery, so expect for it to have different applications for the character.

FTFY

Just putting this here to support this 'theory': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSKcxvSLpb4#t=7m4s

I don't believe so. Watch the Exhibition Footage with Stunedge, DIE-chan and the rest; I'm pretty sure there's a point where someone activates Shadow Rage while under pressure, and they get hit in recovery.

What region do you live in? There's always someone better than you somewhere, maybe you're best checking the Regional threads to find a local gathering for casuals.

Kouhatsu tournament: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tvo_LxWtdo Game Chariot Tetsu! (Chie) vs. Fin (Yosuke) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVKNe2ITWk0 Tetsu! (Chie) vs. Mimige (Narukami) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZrBZAV9zxY Naru (Narukami) vs. Tetsu! (Chie) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=742y7CvYZsY Naru (Narukami) vs. Mimige (Narukami) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCGljhROE_4 Reo (Mitsuru) vs. Keita (Sho) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MikvH-Bz7g0 Reo (Mitsuru) vs. Tetsu! (Chie) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C6-PcnON3M Yamada (Junpei) vs. Ryota (Junpei) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRwcxc6xgXg

It's very possible that there's another time-release character who will force PerShoNa into the same slot as Sho when they're introduced into the game. You might as well wait and see.

I take no responsibility if I happen to be totally wrong! I'm assuming they're 5C and 5D respectively because 5C is fairly quick, short ranged, and appears to gatling into AoA (which no D moves do afaik), and 5D has a lengthy startup and can be used for mixup/oki (which most D moves do) afaik.

Pretty certain 5C is 'Agi': Junpei motions and Trismegistus spews a short-range fireball from his mouth. 5D is very likely the move in which the Persona hovers into the air and 'pecks' at the opponent.

The Rhode Island scene is very small for anime, as far as I understand it. There are a few players, but they tend to travel into MA or CT in order to find competition. I'm not sure what advice I can give you, sorry! .-. I'll try to check out the venue this month when I have time. What games get the most attention there?

THANK YOU. I expected either myself or Skye were going to post something like this, but you got there first. Edit: Putting this here because it feels relevant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwNyVulUI6c

GGs to netplay. Besides the handful of people who were either obviously lagswitching, and the people obviously obsessed with online stats who ragequit (NyanCatsomethingorother, and Spectrasonic). Nothing against P4A, but I'm starting to think I should drop it for a little while and focus on a few 'real' fighting games. I blame BBCP's arbitrary, stupid input buffer and combo system, but I'm starting to feel less confident that I can play a different fighter with any competency.

A suggestion: I only caught the final two FT10s, but you guys admitted straight away that you didn't know much about the Mu vs. Makoto matchup. In that case, it might be a good idea to make a smaller side-list of people who know the various characters, so you aren't floundering when a totally unfamiliar set like that one comes up again. I'll try to help if it's too much extra work. Since I'd prefer to put my money where my mouth is, etc, I offer to commentate on Makoto matches in the future. Provided you aren't looking for big-name, popular players for commentary.

Two things: 1. It's possible that the Sho without his Persona is arcade-mode only, in the same way that Labrys had a non-Persona form in P4U's arcade. 2. Those of you who played Persona 4, what was Adachi's motivation for being the villain? Wasn't he being manipulated? Or was he just axe-crazy? I'm curious to see if he'll remain an antagonist this time around, or if there's some way he might turn over a new leaf and end up being an ally.

Good stuff! Tbh, the Caligula throw effect seems really dumb, but not enough to turn me off to the game. Caligula has a ton of invul in various places, from both his front and back steps and airdashes to several of his normals. In exchange, having played some rounds with and against him, his Counter Boost (Burst) is extremely unreliable for getting people off of him, and his overall movement is pretty lacking. I'd like to start his section after Reviel's, so if you come up with any item-specific combos or interesting tech, feel free to share! If anyone is willing to help me with screenshotting normals and moves for use on the wiki, please let me know!

If you don't have a mizuumi account (or do and don't want to bother), feel free to post up your findings here and I'll copy them over with credit to you. If anyone is still looking into this thread from time to time, I'm still lurking about and I'll try to answer any questions/continue with any discussions. It would be nice to get feedback and maybe try to organize a Poverty netplay tournament or something, assuming anyone messes with this game here.

Continuing to update the E's Laf wiki, slowly. http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/E%27s_Laf/Main Main's page is mostly done, minus some cleanup. I'm starting on Reviel's page now. If anyone has any information, advice, or can help expand the wiki in any way, please let me know! I'm trying, but progress is slow with only one person putting time in.

It was nice seeing all you guys again! I fully expect you to have moved again by the time I get to mash against you again, Why. Also, thanks for hosting and thanks to your Mom for being a kind hostess as always. Shoutouts to Why learning all the Persona 4 memes in one fell swoop Shoutouts to MONKEY NANDAYO Shoutouts to learning-and-not-really-learning matchup experience in Guilty Gear Shoutouts to Fraga's laptop being wishy-washy on E's Laf and WanWan's framerate Shoutouts to Deathbringer being the Worst Dad Ever™ I had a good time, really glad I came (and really glad Why's address is so much closer than it has been for me right now). I've got some more wiki stuff to write out, discovered a 'new' Alcott BnB just by mucking around and maybe have an idea of how some matchups in E's Laf are supposed to work, on top of miscellaneous WanWan, Guilty, and Battle Fantasia knowledge. Katz, Cheese, though I wasn't able to properly put my opinion into words for the longest time, thanks for putting up with my insistence that I dislike 1/0-frame throws and the effect they have on a Fighter's Metagame. I had thought about the specifics and why I like/dislike certain designs for throws, but nobody had challenged my opinions for so long that I had trouble verbalizing my reasoning. I'm pretty sure my Skype is listed here on the side on DL, so if people want to nerd out on JRPG talk and don't mind hearing me rant from time to time, feel free to add me and hit me up! I've toned down my modern JRPG itch for a few years though, so most of my experience is PS1/PS2 era. The most recent stuff on that front from me has been Mother 3, Ib, and Ni no Kuni.

Isn't that how crossups normally work anyway? It's a question of where the collision boxes and their axes are, not where one shitbox meets another. :3 Got to play this game a bit more at casuals just now, and I was able to test a theory or two; this game appears to have AUB protection similar to P4U during blockstrings, and there is a strong deterrent to holding buttons during a blockstring to tech throws/put out an attack on the first frame out of blockstun. Most grounded normals are Air Unblockable with some exceptions, but it appears that if someone is forced to block while airborne they'll be capable of blocking further attacks until they hit the ground (unless Guard Crushed, of course). In addition, though holding the C button for example allows you to Negative Edge a normal or reversal during the first few frames after leaving blockstun, doing so causes your Guard Bar to fill up at somewhere around double the normal rate. I intend on testing to see if Guard Bar rates are different between characters soon, because I've seen Qdora and Serena get Guard Crushed in less than two blockstrings in some of the videos I've watched.