Zephyrion22

Wow heads up to Luminos and Elochai for working through the combo vid to give us notations, damage and meter consumption ! It really is a nice initiative ! I mostly agree with this. In P4U2, those four still seems to be really hard to deal with. Psho also looks really threatening to Liz, because of his explosive damage, decent screen control and harassment possibilities. Also, it is probably only my imagination, but the Naoto MU really seems considerably worse than before. While the neutral game hasn't changed that much, her improved corner game and the ability to silence + fear Liz looks like a handful to deal with. Then again, I don't think it is so bad to be in the worst MU list, but still bad enough to be mentioned xD EDIT : new Damosu combos, and great ones at that ! be sure to check the video thread and discuss it here !

The teleport and persona attacks are harder to deal with than you might think, mainly because it can shut down jumps from anywhere on the screen, it can be 2Bed if used recklessly, but most of the good P.Sho's won't use it if you aren't in the air or busy doing something else.. I really prefer Pless Sho though, and him being better than Sho might be the truth if we look at arcade PSR rankings (always taking this with a grain of salt of course). Really hope to see more of him in the future

Yes, his 5D can still be used as an okizeme, and is still a good move, but for okizeme, you will find yourself using raging Lion feints as they will grant you a free mixup, and allow you to do a safe jump (doing a jB after a Lion feint just before touching the ground will beat most of the reversals : if the opponent uses his DP, you will land in time to block it)

Yeah also, in the end, in terms of gameplan, strengths and weaknesses and so on, Liz hasn't changed much from P4A to P4AU, she traded her damage and meter free combo for a buffed neutral game, slightly improved pressure and a defensive option. I don't think people who have been able to pull through P4A won't be able to pull through in the next game I completely agree, also lack of footage doesn't necessarily mean your character is bad, I mean look at Yukari (if we omit Tahichi who is on every stream and half of the tourneys) , Yukiko (there is even less footage of her than Liz !!) : Although they are good characters, they never appear only because there are few players that appear on said streams and tourneys. In the end, it's the usual "wait and see". Whatever the outcome is, I'll stick to Liz, if Ken or Junpei don't steal my heart until then, that is xD

Yes this route could work again. We don't see enough Yukikos to see if the untech time buff allows it. It would also be good to stay in the face of opponents that you don't want to face fullscreen (Yukari and Naoto come to mind). I'm really hype for Agi detonating two times when held long enough, I'm pretty sure it could see some use in nasty mixups/fire break setups ! We just have to wait and see if any Yukiko shows up to surprise us xD

Damosu is certainly the best liz around, but then again the number of serious liz players is...well...Also I might be a douche but I don't think Damosu will last long in the 800+ arena, the land of terrifying Mitsurus, Shos and Narukamis,. I still wish him the best of luck on his Liz path and really hope he proves me wrong though !

This is what I've gathered from playing the match-up, feel free to correct anything you think wrong ! It is slightly in Carl's favour from what I've heard (then again may be false), but like against all the better characters of the game, one mistake will heavily hinder your chance of winning the round. By no mean is the MU easy to play. On neutral you want to play the footsies game fully. Azrael can hit Nirvana hard and has good pokes with very good vertical and horizontal hitboxes,However, he can't jump cancel most of his normals (only 5A and 5B, and Nirvana's attacks can cleanly beat those with the right spacing) , meaning he can't just cheap Nirvana's life and run away/jump above her. Also his poor mobility (teleport dashes, no dash jump) gives him a hard time mounting an offense against Carl if the latter is behind his sis. Your best bet is to watch the chains he uses on Nirvana and react accordingly -if you want to counter his attempts to 2C/5B to beat your jump-ins attempts you can use high jump airdash 2C if you feel gutsy, as his anti-airs don't have a cross-up hitbox (except 6B, but no Azrael in his right mind should attempt that near Ada). If it counters, you can follow-up with Tenerezza and a full combo with the right spacing, you also want to make use of your double jump every once in a while - if the Azrael go for 5C>6C/3C, you can just stay behind Nirvana and punish the 6C/3C with your 5C you should again get 4k minimum from it with the right confirms, be careful though, as 5C extends Carl hurtbox, so you really need to be on point with the spacing. keep in mind that said moves push Nirvana back, so don't hesitate to take a few steps back -6A is your best friend against IAD attempts, and 236D/8D is your best friend against jumps/high jumps, make full use of them With this , the Azrael should respect your options a bit more and play less aggressively. Your main goal is now to attempt to get in with Fuoco, 6D,46D (Volante gets eaten by Growler, so be careful with it) along with jumps and Vivaces, and counter jumps with 8D and Brio. you can also try and use your mobility to force Azrael to whiff his moves against both you and Nirvana to establish pressure. For example, you fake your jump-in attempt > backdash before entering the 2C danger zone > doll attack."Nirvana dance" (constantly activating and deactivating nirvana to make the opponent whiff something against her and start attacking from there) is also a good idea, as Azrael's best horizontal pokes have quite a bit of recovery on them. You can also run away and get cheap hits, because Azrael can't do much about it, except attempting risky stuff. once you're in the offense this isn't too hard, growler resets the neutral game most of the time and you have plenty of weapons to bait it and counter it, so you can play your game, his backdash can get him out of sandwich combo midscreen, so you should rely on your tight strings to avoid that, backdash is again a risky option for Azrael, as your Vivace cross-up attempts should let you stay in his face or even punish it (A vivace, B version takes too long to recover), he can't backdash when you attempt 3D mixups either, as it hits on both sides, in the corner, the backdash is out of the way and you should be able to trainwreck him with safe jumps and various mixups, if you get him here, don't let him go and the match is yours On defense, it's the other way around. like in most of the MU you will have a hard time because of Carl's poor defensive options, and Azrael heavy mixup game makes it a lot harder, don't forget to rely on barrier if the Azrael abuses frame trap to get him out of your face, B vivace can evade his overheads, but loses to low attacks so you can use it very sparingly when you know the overhead is coming (his 6D is actually reactable if you train it enough and see the difference in the animation between 6D/3D so B vivace is not of question, much harder on 5D because of the fast start-up). Your goal here is to reset the neutral game ASAP, as Carl's neutral options can let you stall for time to get rid of your weak points. Also, some Azrael players will become reckless if you escape with one or two weak points one you so use it to your advantage In the end, the first one who gets his offense rolling wins the match. the fact that Azrael has mediocre movement options, but good normals means you need to play really safe. You should always prioritize re-establishing the spacing game over attempting an approach if you're not 100% sure that you can get in there safely. if you play patient and solid enough, you should have the upper hand on this MU

Well looks like Agi will be our go-to oki in the corner again, i'm pretty sure it will also open new fire break routes ! Also, if you're hooked to Vermillion bird, but don't want to to lose momentum while charging, you might try S.Yukiko, as her shadow Fury combos end up with her being at least lv 6 (and I'm pretty sure it could open original fire break route or lv8/9 boost combos, especially with the Agi and Fire Amp buffs). Depends if you're willing to forsake your burst and easy 5AAA unblockable or not oh and I nearly forgot a-cho Pre Arc Revo cupTeam Yukiko vs Team Elizabeth begins at 00 and ends at 13:23

Lol the fact that there is no more SMP on item allow for trolltastic combos, the upgraded fan being the man offender here ! if the frying pan is your next item while you're cornered and have meter to spare, you can do stuff like 5B>5C>Miracle Jeanne(>5D>66*2/3)>6C>j236C>jC>6A>jD>6A>236B>66>3C> oki yup, if you run long enough while the opponent is in spin state due to 5D you can corner to corner in a really fun fashion, this combo is obviously unoptimized, and still does 4.2k. you can also do something similar with normal pan, but it's a lot trickier. Be wary though as combos are limited by time, you don't want to run too much between each 5D !

Guys don't forget moves with Fatal recovery, I'm pretty sure punishing those with the right moves consistently and confirming from said moves will be very important too !

Although it could be a really nice and powerful gimmick, it would be a bit risky to throw it out randomly in strings to bait DPs and stuff (depends if we're dealing with reactable reversals or not) because Liz's health and defense really don't allow you to eat a beefy fatal combo. Still using it every once in a while might be viable if you can afford to lose that much health should you fail your attempt

That's a really good idea, the magarudyne buffs might really help extending combos enough to make Hama somewhat practical !

Aha fraudulence or not Liz winning is still Liz winning ! Good to know xD

Sooo, couldn't watch the pre arc revo tourney, do you know what happened to the Liz players in it, and do you know if I can access a past broadcast on u-stream ?(not quite familiar with it yet). And If not the case, does someone intend to upload highlights of it ? Done with the mountain of questions !

This set with Damosu was pretty nice ! I still think the biggest hurdle about randomizer will be the [8] buffer (if this is still a thing), so we'll have to rely on Shuffle Time in some cases. And yeah, Liz is not hopeless, but we'll have to step up our game and make use of the few useful buffs Liz got (Awakening Zio and Agi, 2C and so on) now that sheer damage is gone. I had a terrible vision though, Liz vs Golden Liz will probably be a slaughterfest xD Edit : yeah Randomizer is [6] 4, bad numpad notation, editing to avoid confusing people

Question, have we seen Liz's j2B having any use so far ? I know it's not the best thing out there, but I thought that both the floating effect and the kinda shield-like hitbox of the move would be helpful in air-to-air situations and maybe even for mixups and confirms of some sorts ? I mean I really hope that it has another purpose than getting like 400 damage more of air chains that rarely happens anyway !

You can still combo out of Ghastly wail, and you can still combo into it, it's just that Bufu eats the 2C buff, cutting off a HUGE amount of the damage it deals. Combine that with the fact that you have to use SB Bufu and Ghastly wail is now useless as a combo ender, as it costs 125 meter for like 500 more damage. For the patch notes,a s I've said earlier Liz won't likely change much unless someone decides to do a few drastic changes, as her moveset is flawed in many aspects, but I don't really care, I'm just happy she didn't get another set of nerfs xD

True enough ! hopefully, the 5A nerf will make his pressure slightly more bearable for the ones facing him

Aha Elizabeth can only block against 3/4 of the cast so it doesn't count xD ! seriously though both Shos are pretty well rounded anyway. main difference is that Psho can harass you from anywhere on the screen (god that 5D), but loses some of Pless Sho's options in pressure, making him slightly more predictable (dat command grab though). Not important anyway, they are both good + badass sooo^^

Yeah, then again even in P4U, there weren't many good lizzies to begin with. There's still hope ( a wee tiny beacon of hope but still) !

Alright let's aim for Top 5... If there is more than 5 people, that is xD PSN : zephyrion22 Timezone : GMT+1 Again if chat moderator is needed, and if there is nobody for the commentary (I'm originally French so better have a true English commentator for this) I'm willing to help ! EDIT : Huh sorry, can't make it for this week.

Here is a set between Shadow Junpei and Shadow Junpei, and I'm glad to see that both players know what they are doing with their character in shadow form Shadow Junpei Vs Shadow Kanji Part 1 Shadow Junpei Vs Shadow Kanji Part 2 Shadow Junpei vs Shadow Kanji Part 3 Shadow Junpei looks...surprisingly good. He has an insane meter gain thanks to Victory cry + Shadow meter generation, he gains ambiguous mixups with Shadow Fury, and his combos look daunting, but quite damaging. He certainly is a viable Shadow

I wouldn't be so sure about that, since only the second hit floats the opponent. either the timing for 2C must be right on spot,or it is just impossible, and we would have to go into A Bufu route

Well even if P4A Elizabeth is not really the center of attention these days, I think I found a neat mixup with Liz, based on what we already knew about C garu mixups . If people get a bit too used to 2B OMC trick you have a nice option midscreen that is C Garu OMC. Depending on how you're able to control the tornado you can get some pretty sick stuff. You get the usual high/low/throw mixup but you can also get cross-up options and both standing and crouching opponents. it's a bit unsafe and very hard to get consistently though. still here you go High : 2A/5B> C Garu > hold [9] until you're just above the opponent 2>OMC>jA Low/Throw : same but with empty jump 2A/throw Cross-up High : 2A/5B> C Garu [9] 3 > OMC> 44>air turn > jA Cross-up low/throw 2A/5B> C Garu [9] 1 > OMC >2A/throw Double cross-up : 2A/5B> C Garu [9] > OMC> 44> jA/jB If you feel confident that the opponent will be surprised by this, you can replace the jA by D garu for big combos. Unfortunately, I can't record this, but, however hard it is to pull off (mainly because the timing is different on standing and crouching opponents so you really have to look at where you are when you're doing this and adapt), and even if it can be DPed, the mixups are for the most part really hard to see. Oh and you can jD if your opponent is holding jump back. Hope it can be somewhat of use !

I can mod the chat if need be. PSN : zephyrion22 Location: France Timezone : GMT +1