Zephyrion22

Liz needs an install super in Awakening, like Goku Moroha, during which she completely goes berserk, then^^. But yeah those two are set apart by a lot of things. A.B.A Moroha is huge risk and reward in Moroha, and it's a mode you definitely want to manually enter at all costs. As Liz, you rarely want to force Awakening at full health, and Liz herself doesn't fundamentally change in this mode as she doesn't get any significant boost in mobility, mixup, okizeme, or space control. Plus her Awakening supers and skills are either situational or almost useless.

Completely forgot that you can't move while AW garu is active, my bad. so yeah it would be useless that's why I included something about the recovery of it.It would be too strong if Liz recovered before the opponent, but should she recover at the same time than him, with her bad startups in general, getting the next hit would be harder, and thus more rewarding. basically it would be a bet, as you're in awakening, you're forsaking the advantage, for a "the one who gets the next hit wins". to top it all, the negative itself doesn't last long, so running away is always possible, especially midscreen when the move sends you miles away. But yeah this + damage buff might be overkill Thanks for the feedback !

OK It's kinda stupid, but this discussion made me wonder how could liz be buffed without making her stupid, and what actual buffs she could get, from the simplest to the most crazy stuff (yeah I have time to lose in buses, subways and stuff). All of this is just things that will never happen (yay, wishful thinking, why bother). As it is more of an (abnormally long) attempt to express how I would like liz to be re-designed, and not anything constructive or informative (heck, I'm not even sure if this is a proper place to post that), the rest is in spoilers. Feel free not to read this^^

The huge problem with Ghastly Wail as of now, is that Bufu eats the 2C bonus, which is detrimental for making this super actually useful, as the combo video showed, you have to use EX Bufu high enough, then perfectly time your 2C to make it whiff, then time your AoA into OMC into super. Now given the level of most of the Lizzies we've seen so far, I can hardly see anybody having the meter + corner + execution to actually pull that off. doesn't mean it will be utterly useless though, just harder and more situational but I can def see 2C> mind charge> 214 AB> etc becoming a viable route when people actually take the time to learn its visibly strict timing

I couldn't agree more. The character was designed this way, and it's an inherent weakness for Liz. But as a reward, landing that one hit, be it by luck or a clever read, should hold some kind of reward, as it did for P4A Elizabeth . While the reward was great for P4U2 first loke Liz, the reward for Liz as she is now is, well,mediocre. All this to say that yeah, Pulsr is right. I'm already subbing Yosuke and Yukiko in P4A, and I'm glad I did so, liz will probably stay in the lab until Acsys decides to give her mad scientist buffs to get her out of CS Rachel tier

To me she was quite strong without being overpowered. I don't remember all the changes, but mostly, all her zios covered 90% of the screen, Garus had more range and garu loops were still possible , bufu was a 3 hit move (it froze two times in a row), allowing for ice resets and Ghaslty wail enders from anywhere on the screen, and maragidyne was faster and allowed for crazy stuff (Lol at C maragidyne pushing the opponent away, then a second row of pillar bringing him back, and D did the reverse of that), her SB dia had a better healing rate , and 2C had the same untech time as P4A. I don't remember all the changes but basically She was P4A Liz with better range,decent resets/mixups and explosive damage from anywhere on the screen when in Awakening, at a time when the damage of the other characters was overall nerfed. So I think these nerfs made her look stronger than she actually was I don't know if those setups are still possible, but if they were, I don't see why people would choose not to get their free negative penalty. Seriously this move is godlike in every way, except for its stupid, stupid input

Thing is, they probably intended to make liz a monster in Awakening, and they did so in her first loketest version, but she was (allegedly) broken. For some reason, they nerfed her to oblivion in the second loke (the one before the final version). Final version of liz was a slightly tweaked and improved version of second loke liz. Irony is that she is now barely more viable in awakening than in normal mode. With all due respect to Acsys, I can't agree with that simply because she could also pack up statuses back in P4A, and Teddie, which can also do that, have a far better or improved damage output/neutral/mixup potential/whatever. While it is understandable to fail on balancing on a whole new character (to be fair, they did a pretty good job with all the new chars), they failed to accomplish what they had initially planned for liz Well, I don't have the courage to erase my ramblings on balance issues, but at least, you have one of the interpretations on why liz is what she is for the moment

Mirai Yume Aoyama Tournament Elizabeth VS Yosuke Elizabeth VS Akihiko 700 PSR Liz !

First loke liz with crazy damage and midscreen ghastly wail, you will be missed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4j6BppRXs84 Stumbled on this : Score attack boss Elizabeth using SB Mamudoon. so the recovery is as crappy as the regular one, but the circle is in front of Liz at ground level as stated earlier. As for OMC 5C, the big issue is that now Thanatos seems to stop at the OMCed hit, meaning that it may be a better idea to go for dash cancel. Might still be useful for catching those who hold upback with 5C>OMC> 5C but that's pretty much it, I guess.

If I remember correctly, Mamudoon activates a lot quicker than Mahamaon, but it has a lot more recovery upon use, meaning you can't get anything to connect after using it. Maybe there is a new path involving it for P4U2 Liz thanks to her new tools, but as of now, Mahamon is the most viable of the two because it's easier to combo from

Yay, We European finally get to have fun with this game ! I found something funny, though not incredibly useful, and I didn't really know where to post it so.. Don't know if it has already been said, but 5A jC OMC allows Liz to do various things -The usual high /low, mixup involving jA or 2A/throw, though it is unsafe and quite easily readable, compared to 2B OMC jA/2A. Careful with the distances, though, as the jA has quite a poor range. -Air dash jC D magarudyne : the crossup that has already been found you can make this really ambiguous by pressing the second jC early to avoid the crossup effect. -Air turn dash jC D magarudyne. pretty strict timing and works only on crouchers, but it does fake cross-up/cross-up EDIT doesn't work, forget it^^ , -fun fact (though useless) : if you do any persona attack after crossing up with the air dash after the first or second jC, the persona is summoned behind the opponent. As if someone would ever let you do that, but we never know^^ Problem is that pretty much all of this loses to jump, evasive action, decent anti-airs or DP, but if you feel like you know your opponent well enough : -Backdash jD : This will catch any normal jump. Since Thanatos stays in place, the command throw comes out pretty fast. Liz recovers quickly from the backdash, so it is possible to punish DP mash against a few characters, in exchange for a persona card. if you opponent resort to high jump, you can throw a 2B on anything except backwards movement. Loses to doing nothing, or evasive action, or moves with 3/4 or fullscreen range (Coup Droit...) but it is still quite safe after that. - You can follow-up with any other persona attacks, as Thanatos stays in place. Although it is asking to be Persona broken, you can get out of trouble without much harm. jB can be also a good option in this case Then again just watching/reacting makes this pretty useless, but it is still surprising the first times you use it, and can lead to pretty decent combos on a feared opponent.

I think Catherine is one of those character who don't excel neither at zoning/spacing, nor at rushdown. So yeah, he is really MU dependent. Most of his specials have a really good range and are safe if spaced properly, so your goal is to get a knockdown and rush, or evade if the attack is blocked( EX pom-pom girl and j236k are really helpful, especially on counter hit). Once you get the corner, you can use EX bell as oki : combined with rolls, command throws, devil stomp ambiguous cross-ups etc, you can score more knockdowns. Catherine is not that good at full screen, so bells are more a way to keep your opponent on his toes than a true zoning tool. Notes are mainly used to prevent your opponent from getting up close (No true DP for okama-san, so you don't want to end up blocking stuff). Again, that is my opinion on Catherine so feel free to add stuff xD

Actually, this cerberus infinite has been made possible by the 1.02 patch, which slightly enhanced the recovery of 214C. For Cait Sith, it is no longer an infinite because of the push back effect (but still a viable loop though). Celia has a crazy loop in the corner, but it is the only thing that allows her to be on par with the rest of the cast. Clearly, the few remaining infinites and loops of this game are either hard to pull of and/or not really useful, so it's not that big of a deal, though it wouldn't hurt to patch it.

I didn't even realize that this move could be used as a command grab ! thanks for the info, learning more about A.B.A everyday thanks to you guys !

I totally agree ! I mean this is quite complete and yet not overwhelming for beginners or sucky A.B.A players (raising my hand here). Also looked at the matches you posted and they were great ! Just a little detail : calling keygrab a command grab could be confusing since it can be guarded and all...I's a command move with a really cool grab-like animation, but hey that's just a detail ! Urgh I'm really annoying right now : Anyways just thanks and keep up the good work

Wanna-be elevator attendant PSN zephyrion22 Location France/EU