Zephyrion22

MU is impossible to win on the ground when you're in his 5A range . As Gliran said, you want to fuzzy jump most of his stuff (teleports, AoAs tick throws...), Still manageable, but a really crappy MU for Yuki. Neutral - Here, most our zoning tools get crushed by the teleports, especially Maragi, which is FC recovery, and will kill you if you use it just like that. The least risky things you can do is throw air fans and use D attacks (they can recover fast enough to avoid being crushed by fullscreen super or teleports if you aren't too predictable with it), but that doesn't hold that much reward either. So you'll have to play Yukiko completely differently. Your game here is to play pseudo rushdown and move around as much as you can to capitalize on whiff punishes. Run forward in 5A range > Instant air backdash >6B does a good job at this. You can also use high jump> (4/5/6B) > 4/5/6D to keep some control on stage placement -Offense Minazuki has a lot of counter options against Yukiko, so you don't want to be too bold with your offense. His Awakening counter move can catch Ds and you'll get caught in the UB resulting from it. He can also score insane damage from his other awakening super, but it's short ranged, first hit being air unblockable just means you can't jump on him recklessly. Here you'll just have to read the flow and see how the other player uses his reversal options and react accordingly. Try to finish your combos by Agi oki as much as possible to have this little extra layer of safety, and keep the pressure going -Defense -Minazuki has a lot of pressure resets, and you'll have to see what is escapable and what isn't.. 214AB at the end of his rekkas act as a safe-jump, is overhead, and his highly + on block, so you don't want to mash or DP during his rekkas. You'll just have to call out jump cancels and command grabs, as those are his only ways to open you up (214AB doesn't count, because you have two rekkas to get up, and even then, the 214AB itself is not that fast). Be very careful with Yukiko's DP, as its poor range will get you in trouble more often than not That's the gist of the matchup : Just be patient. Try to get agi oki from any stray hit that may occur., be patient and cautious when you're pressing, and be aware of the holes in your pressure, and get ready to block a lot, because you will have to.

If there's still room, I want to attempt this ! I'll PM you tomorrow and Sunday to get my ass handed to me on that FT5 xD !

Using his float on neutral often means punishment if you're too predictable with it, but unlike air dashes you have a wide array of options to chose from : if your usual 886 jK>jS gets stuffed too much, try going for 884>j236P> or 889>236H ( harder to anti-air if you change the 236H timing regularly) or even just 882 into walk if you feel that your opponent is just waiting for you to do something stupid : doesn't hurt to surprise him with something even more stupid^^

OK, nothing new, but JIed 214P/K is really cool, you get really neat stuff from the double jump on 236H air hit (1 or 2 hit depending on positioning and needs, but mixups still works), 236K and 2D. between the directions you can input from the hop, the direction and the timing of your double jump, you can pretty much hit anything on both sides, meaty or delayed, and it also acts as a finnicky safe-jump if you know the wake-up timings. nothing great but it still works well enough as an okizeme.

a route involving Voltec Dein midscreen : 2K>2HS(3)>5H>6H> jump cancel>jS>j6H>j236236P> delayed airdash>land>214S>236[H]>214K[6]>jK>5H>6H>236H 194 dmg 3k cal on Sol Didn't put the j6H version of the combo because it's inconsistent, and only gives you 3 more damage here, but if you're confident in your execution go for it^^ NOTES -Also works in many different scenarios, as long as you got an air chain and the combo haven't prorated too much yet (jD>j214S>land >jS or 6P AA scenarios) - If for some reason your calorie gauge is really low, you can forsake the second part of the combos after j236236P : you just land and get two free 214H -You can adapt this route in the corner : stuff >6H> high jump 7 > jS>j236236P> land > 214S into rest of the combo. It's often better to keep your meter for other things in the corner though - j6HS >j236236P doesn't work against some characters, high jump jS resolves the issue in most cases and still lets you get the combo in exchange for a lil bit of damage

Wow, where are the people ? C'mon, it's P4U, join the fray, for glory ! PSN : Zephyrion22 GMT + 1 Most likely playing Ken

I agree with you on most of the points. However, even if he deals less damage with his command throw than with his normal starters, it's still decent. he also gets really good damage from his ground throw (don't overlook it, his never-ending pressure and command grab can make you forget to tech, and you'll regret it). his jump cancels options are relatively good. He has neat mixup options from it (air turn backdash jB either hits you crouching or completely whiff depending on height and you can't really differentiate them, jB(1) whiff (2) hits that prevents both jumping out and successfully resets your pressure if you block it. you can also make it whiff to set grabs.Yes, his mixups are risky and not incredible, but they are there, and it's hard to tell when they are coming out and call them out properly. Big issue is that you don't see Minazuki players commit to those options cause "hey why take the risks ?", but should you be able to guard anything and stuff the grabs, he still has plenty of ways to ruin you in the corner. Also if the ground game is highly in our favours, the air game is definitely in his. Minazuki's air normals beat all of ours with the right spacing, as they have great range to force us relying more on jB, but are also faster, meaning he can always beat jB just by calling it. his damage on jB counter is also hilarious if he has the meter to spare, so it's definitely a good deterrent. Even if he blocks your jB in the air, he often still has better air options than us to prevent us from pressing our advantage. Overall, I just think that this MU is actually quite balanced. Minazuki has some annoying tools (air normals, his teleport which can serve as an anti AA against Ken because of the slow ass recovery of his jB and his bad DP, or as a safe get-in tool with the right setups) and Ken has to deal with them. but Ken's tools also force Minazuki out of his ground game. Both have insane damage output : Ken's is just more stable than Minazuki's but at the end of the day, it's roughly the same. They both build their game around forcing the opponent to make a mistake or take a wrong guess. (they both excel at frame traps and whiff punishing). It's a MU that will test your patience and endurance as a player, as both characters can heavily shift the momentum in their favour in an instant !

Yeah damage midscreen is overall better, but you have nice things with S.Yukiko in the corner, like the combo I posted earlier : 5AA>236A>S.Fury>236AB> delay 236D>214CD>214CD>release B>214CD>214CD>release A>5C>214B> cancel first hit by 214D : if you do it at perfect height, you force a knockdown into UB reset of your choice, if not the opponent can tech in the air, but can eat serious damage if he hasn't air reversal options ; to give an idea, if you had lv1 before beginning this combo you end up at lv 9 and can do this : -214214AB>dash forward >2AB>214AB>236AB>5C>release B> 236D>dash forward >5C>release A > 236236CD for around 7.5k. you can also replace the EX vermilion bird by instant air backdash >j214214A to bait DPs/bad rolls (the combo also works from this just fine) Also, you have this blockstring into UB in the corner : if done right, the only holes to DP is between the A agi release explosions, and you will be too far for most of the DPs to reach. -5A(A)>214A(1)> S.fury>236A>214A(1)>214B(2)>236AB>236CD>release A>214D >release B>236236CD (UB)> 2AB >236A>236236C for 3.5k lv0 You can adapt this combo depending on how far you were when the opponent blocked 5A (you can omit the second 214A from max range 5A). This setup,even though it is situational and kinda weak, can force bad bursts/guard cancels/guard cancel rolls. the damage itself becomes more significant from lv3 onwards, so consider using it if you managed to rack up boosts. you can also go for 236C/236D reset for more damage, but this is easier to escape If it's not the case you can forsake the UB for free level-ups : the blockstun provided by 236CD and 236AB should let you easily go to lv8, and work from there. you can also get pressure options/openings while in shadow fury once the opponent tries to disrespect the UB setup !

Ok, I'm in PSN : Zephyrion22

SB Agi is mostly used for optimized combos from very good starters (5C/2C/jC counters 5D/2D fatals,Maragi starters). and you can still use dancing flames loop to replace them (meaning you give up on additional damage, but get really easy combos instead). Dancing flame loops can still be unreliable depending on spacing/position/height, but you can make necessary adjustments mid-combo once you get used to it. It's still used sometimes in corner pressure, but it's kinda useless for neutral/pressure 90% of the time, so yeah, you can do without. For staples, I won't really say anything advanced, I'm far from being a good enough Yukiko player to tell you about that. Only advice I could give you now is 1. learn to throw fans : you can throw 4/5/6 B or BB to get different speeds on every fan. you can also control the angle of vertical fans with 1/2/3B, same for air fans. this also applies to her D attacks (you can control the distance they travel the same way). So first step would be to learn how to combine all those options to zone the opponent effectively. once you're there, you can add Agis (236A/B) and Maragis (236C/D) to make your zoning scarier 2.learn how her "pressure" works. Yukiko has holes everywhere in her blockstrings, and that can help you or ruin you depending on how you make use of them. so just fiddle with strings, jump cancels, hops, 2D/5D pressure resets and so on. Yukiko's game-plan is very MU dependent, so it's hard to give advice on what you should do that works in every situation. Fire Boost and Fire Break are definitely useful, but you can't/don't have to always go for them. They are still a good options against people that choose to turtle you knowing that her zoning is slow and reactable ! Somebody propped up a Skype group so it could be a good idea to join it, as it'll be easier to answer questions without it looking a mess like what I just posted xD !

true, just me hating on the character more than anything xD

Still less silly than Shabrys and her knuckle train roll mixups. Another fun mixup involving the same thing is 2A then dash 2C~CD. since 2A is + 1, you get either the throw just before the 2C touches, or you get the 2C before (to bust throw reject attempt, beat 5f normals or IB mash, and prevent jump-outs) and you can still combo after the throw whiff (jA as a tight link only on normal hit, but pretty much anything you want on CH). Both options win against rolls, but lose against DP, but you can just bait it after 2C and reset pressure after it. It's really good if the opponent respects you enough, and if you use it sparingly ! Only real issue is that it is timing specific depending on Koro's position (you have to literally plink it if Koro is between their legs (corner mostly), but you 2C,dash then throw on normal distance (midscreen). This mixup shines mostly after 214x.

Wow, this is surprisingly awesome, I totally love this ! Little note, some crouching hitboxes make the 3 hits option very hard (i.e Yukiko) and some literally impossible (i.e Naoto). Still great regardless of that !

yeah it's one of the few high/low mixups you'll generally use, they all have pros and cons in my opinion. I'm listing them here real quick -jump forward airdash jB>j2B or jB>(fake-out j2B)>2A or 2B/throw Pros -jB comes out quite fast. -can be done from an IAD from fair distances midscreen, and at anytime in the corner. jB>j2B is airtight on normal block, you can DP between jB and j2B on IB, but both j2B and the fake option also act as safe-jump (what you do after landing can get stuffed though), even on earliest jB. Cons -jB is very unsafe without dog cover, since it's an IAD mixup. -Even if you're safe to DPs, the big hole left by the fake-out j2B can let the opponent mash the normal of their choice/jump out before the low. -doesn't work against crouching opponents midscreen from up close, your jB will just sail over them. -Not really a con, but standing/crouching hitboxes of smaller characters affect the timing of the mixup, you can do it on IAD for some, others will require a little delay on the airdash (best is to consistently go for the delay). This makes the mixup unpredictable for the opponent, but can also mess with your confirms or give a chance for the opponent to do something about it. jump > air-turn> air backdash (towards opponent) jB or(fake-out jB)>2A or 2B/throw Pros -back-turned IAD in itself is incredibly safe if you choose not to input anything after you do it, and even if you do you land quite fast, meaning you can get away using this from 5C in pressure or raw 5A (not advised but you can try). -very hard to differentiate the overhead from the low/throw option. - Midscreen, can cross-up or not depending of your jump direction before the air-dash, your position, and the pushback/vacuum from Koro's action, giving you hard to predict left/right + high/low mixups. - If you have 214C/214D or 236D/CD cover, you can effectively run the high/low while remaining completely safe, and pressure from this (not from the other moves since they don't have enough blockstun). Cons -poor range, which is bad considering how neutral works in the game. you're saving this for post knockdown/corner mixups. - The IAD backdash makes it obvious that you're going for a mixup, so the opponent can choose to guard/roll cancel (you can bait those though) to avoid dealing with it. If you mistime it/ misinput it (happens more often than you'd think because of the height requirement for his jB to come out), you can lose your pressure/get punished more easily than with jB>j2B mixup. - can be easily airthrown if you're not covered by Koro. Again use this sparingly when Koro isn't around I may have forgot some points but this could help seeing in which situation you want to use the jB/j2B mixup, and in which you want to use the other.

so here is a list of more gimmicky okizeme strategies, but you should use them every once in a while ! Stuff > 236B>236D oki : forsaking damage for shenanigans : since the Dog brings the opponent back to you you can attempt both high/low and left/right mixups with either roll or IAD air-turned backdash. you can also do 236CD if you think your first mixup will be blocked : unilke 236D, Koro recovers as soon as the animation is completed and don't go back to you, meaning you can attempt 5A > 5C mixups after your initial okizeme mixup. 236A~A>Late 214C/D throw trap : a variant of the 214C meaty okizeme, simply enough you just delay your 214C compared to the normal okizeme. If the opponent early techs, you can either attempt a throw or just throw bait by jumping/backdashing and so on (depending on your opponent, try to choose an option that will force their reversal to whiff) and get a combo thanks to 214C/D connecting. should the opponent late tech, you'll just have your 214C hit as a meaty, and you can use the options that 214C's normal okizeme give you. Best is to mix both to keep the opponent on their toes. 214CD goes all the way regardless of Ken being hit or not, so it can eat most light attacks and B+D DPs and trade in your favor, it also catches rolls if you wanted to DP bait corner 236A/B~B>214D/236D safejump : unlike the other two, this is a true and reliable okizeme that you should go for if you can get it in the corner, because it is obnoxious. Gigantic impact B alone lets you do a jB safe jump that eats both rolls and jump startups. Once the opponent respects that, you can sneak a throw instead of a jB. If the opponent chooses to late tech,214D hits meaty. And you can use that to run another mixup (jump back air-turned backdash jB/2A/throw. If timed right, the 214D will take care of all the delay tech options, your jump back will take care of the DP, and 214D should give you just enough blockstun to attempt your mixup. Should the opponent not tech at all, you'll get your jB to yellow beat, the following 214D will connect, and you'll just have to do a j2B to knock the opponent back to the ground and follow with a 236D okizeme. If you know for sure your opponent won't tech, you can just fake out the jB, and the 214D WILL reset, giving you a free combo itnto the same oki. the only real drawback to this okizeme is that while you can easily confirm of any stray hit happening during it into another knockdown, and even apply the same okizeme again, 214D proration will make your combo weaker. Still a good old annoying vortex so hey^^ Footnote : to time the 214D to hit correctly all you have to do is input 214D just before recovering from B Impact, then jump, and the timing should be around the one you need EDIT : if you want to be even dirtier, here is a neat little mixup from the previous oki : blocked : jB safejump>214>236B/236AB>236D(Koro should do it from behind the opponent) and then jump forward >air backdash jB (cross-up or not depending on the timing) or neutral jump air turn air dash forward jB> j2B/fake j2B into low. Most of this stuff isn't perfectly legit, but they are still good options to keep in mind, if your old okizeme begins to get somewhat stale !

I'm in ! PSN/tag : zephyrion22

PSN : Zephyrion22 Location : France Daay you want to play : Saturday/ Sunday Sorry I couldn't make it last week !

My god, that much ? But her offense looks so good, if she has 9500 on top of that, she will be really hard to contest ! (I originally thought she had 8500, so had a digit wrong, sorry for previous post^^).

ASW did with Margaret what they couldn't do properly with Liz : A true glass cannon char : no defense, not a lot of life, but boy when she gets started she can wreck you even faster than the top tiers. I think her corner game will be godlike once people figure her out !

Can't believe I forgot to test it without CH ! well thanks for the correction !

You got me curious, so I decided to test out the AoA OMC 214214C+D, and turns out it works, the spin state is barely enough, but you really need to input everything really fast. It is still a valid UB, the DP, doesn't even come out because of the end of the spin state, even if it's a short one !

Hey, I'm new to Rise, and I find the character really cool ! A few notes^^ -Field detonate > roll do works as a cross-up because the game register all the C inputs as detonation : so A+C makes you roll, get far past the opponent before the bomb actually detonates, so it's a tried and true cross-up. for it to work, you must be on your last satellite though, so it's kinda risky and unpractical, but still - I love the UB setups people found, but don't forget to use the good old unescapable UB resets, throw > OMC> 214214CD means unscaled super, means 7k total in the corner for 125 meter. It's expensive but the throw's spin state makes it guaranteed against anybody who doesn't have a burst, so it's kinda cool. It also works from AoA but it's much harder to do and to confirm ! Still somewhat useful for Shadow Rise since you can do a combo, detonate the 236A/B notes,then Shadow Fury >AoA>OMC>214214CD, but still very situational and not optimal again soo -you can do DDR combos for 100 meter total both midscreen and corner : 5AA>2AB>236CD>66>5C>22B>214A>214214CD, hurts less than OMB combos but it still hurts enough to consider using it. In the corner, you have a different route, but same principle : >5AA>5C> just before 2nd hit 22AB>delayed 214A>214214CD. it's a bit expensive, but it's a good way to end a round without having to sacrifice a burst. ! That's pretty much it, feel free to tell me if all of this is useless, old stuff or anything !

I don't want Liz to become like Boss Liz, I just want Wail to have a use again : it's mediocre as a reversal, useless on neutral, and hardly practical for combos. Such a classy super deserves better xD

A few notes on Score Attack boss Liz : -Has a lot of health : somewhere around 18-20k. -has 3 jumps/2 airdashes -runs super fast and her airdashes cover a huge distance -broken damage, like every boss/score attack character : 5D deals 4k, you've been warned -Immune to any kind of status ailment. - Like previous version, invigorate on crack, she will almost always have at least 50 meter to play with -Mahamaon/Mamudoon completely invincible from startup to recovery, activates really fast like in the previous version. You can still throw/try to hit her in the small window between the end of invincibility and the activation of the instant kill -Affected by Ghastly wail Nerf : C version *only* deals around 5k without any buffs. EX wail still deals the 8.1k. Deceptively good range. Unlike normal Liz, if you're not in the air/out of range when the superflash occurs, then you'll be grabbed no matter what you try (give this to normal Liz plz). Also, surprisingly enough, you can be caught by Wail while being in hitstun, meaning you can be comboed into Wail from anything. -Diaharan fully heals Liz, and a lot faster than before. Invulnerable to projectiles. Really hard to stop. Almost impossible to kill without the right strategy when this happens (Liz's IK combo doesn't even IK her when it happens, she just lose something like 5/6 of her health to give you an idea of what awaits you. now try to kill her with a low damage output char xD)

On the topic of Adachi and Marie, Adachi is definitely very strong, but I would also say that Marie, while she is definitely not top tier material, is not so weak as to end up on the other end of a tier list. -Her pressure, while lacking, can still mess you up (2B/5A being jcable, her hop cancel game that is well complimented by the horizontal range of her jB, OMC gimmicks and so on). Her neutral is actually decent to me , even if not quite conventional : 5C and 2C, even if they are persona attacks (read breakable and a bit risky), can beat more buttons than they look they should, and can be converted into actual damage (3k meterless from them). 5B in neutral , while it's not godlike or perfect, is still very useful, especially once you're able to distinguish whether the opponent will block (in which case 214A~D cancel is of use) or be hit (in which case you have at least 2.5k + semi-safe okizeme. Finally her corner okizeme is definitely nothing to laugh at : her ability to get you out of the corner while safe jumping, or setting specific okizeme (214C activating automatically after a set time is more useful than it might look it is, if you manage your options well and know what to do from the additional blockstun) So yes all of this doesn't amount to much when you look at her and compare her with the better characters of the game, but all of this is still there. When looking at her tools, I see the potential of a mid tier : she has nothing really flashy or noticeable, but she can deal with most of the situations, and has options to counter every playstyle Well this is all week 1 impressions so I might be completely wrong. But while I don't find her as strong as Adachi or Ken, I can't find enough flaws that would send her in the other end of the tier list for the moment