Anne

Nobody really seems that angry, they just seem to be trying to inform you.

getting this out of the way now, any crazy hyperbole, misinformation, or whining involving Margaret will result in an infraction, no warnings~

If it gets wild I'll just lock it. I'm willing to give it a shot, would dilute some of the tier/power level talk out of the already cramped and weird general thread. I'll add the general rule of, "Talk about tiers and characters' positions in them. Do not discuss how useful you personally find tier lists(i.e. 'tier lists don't matter', keep that shit out of here) and don't be a crybaby about character placement."

If you wanna make a tier list thread we won't stop you

Yeah, I was saying Yukiko is weak.

Trying to circumvent the news and gameplay lock is not what I meant. If you make a thread, please have a topic to discuss.

Apparently even after all that some people didn't learn, and some didn't bother listening to me. If you have something you want to discuss, feel free to make a thread in the forum. This one is staying locked for awhile. EDIT: New thread is up.

Let's be careful with the Elph discussion, remember gameplay guys. Again, recent events make this important to follow.

Actually no, because lately that's just been complaining and wild speculation and bullshit.

He's looking to switch since he think's she's weak (at least that's what I've gathered from talking to him.)

yeah, sign ups at noon, first game at one. 1PM: Guilty Gear 3PM: UNIEL 4PM: BBCP 5PM: P4U2 ABK time is up to Papstr since we're going to be in Antioch.

Merkava is not going to struggle to get a hit and knock you down. He can do massive corner carry into a hard knockdown which gives him his setplay or super oppressive options. Wald is going to assault at you but AAing him is rough, and the uses for 360A/B are in context to the rest of his tools and the situations he places you in. It's a super legit mix up tool, grappler mix up. Vatista can IOH you without CS anyways, and even if she CSes she still has the option to go low which is unreactable anyways. Regarding Seth set ups, he makes you guess in ways that aren't just left/right and has actual mix up elsewhere. Linne's mix up is tame and you're right, but the idea of it is pretty irrelevant in what you're trying to say.

No, no Relius' mix up is not sub par. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

No I understand what you guys are saying, and I'm still saying the discussion is off base, abstract, and pretty shoddy. I think you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm saying the discussion itself is something that's not productive and results in poor things being said, and is something that is best to be avoided. Like I don't care what argument you guys are making in the end, all I pointed out is what TD said about Relius is incredibly misleading and not okay. That's just an example. The point is you guys either complain or talk about something abstract like this and poor/incorrect things are being said. I could just outright put an end to these types of discussions, or you guys can be better about it. Oh, and setplay is short for "set up" play. A setplay character is a character who knocks you down, then can do a number of set ups heavily in their favor risk/reward wise that are strong mix ups(they usually loop back into themselves). Relius, Rachel are examples from BB, Millia/Eddie from GG, Chie/Narukami from Vanilla P4U etc.

More or less Yukiko has too many losing MUs in neutral where she just gets bullied, then she has very poor options to actually deal with what happens afterwards since pressure and momentum are so nuts. When she gets random hits or openings, she can't reliably turn them into much, so she's going to need too many chances or take too many risks vs most of the cast. She has some cute things like her unblock, but the consistency of her getting to that point isn't there. That's the basic idea, I'd have to get Zealous to breakdown specifics further.

The matter is more or less this thread always devolves into the same shit: complaining about a character (probably Nu or Tsubaki) some abstract game theory that's probably off base (like the CS Extend talk) tiers and character power levels, some of which is also abstract and off base After awhile it all bleeds together and people just start saying wild off base stuff like what I quoted about Relius, or that Ragna having mostly even MUs is a good measuring stick (protip: it's actually a terrible measuring stick), or that certain MUs go one way etc. Like whatever discussion about UNiEL is happening already has some wild, flat out wrong things said and is ultimately pointless to the thread. I could be an asshole and just say "Hey, this is all unproductive, doesn't belong here, misinformation is against the rules" and be way more heavy handed, but I let it rock because you guys are active and you seem to enjoy it. I actually don't have fun putting people down, I like people talking and being active. At some point though, somebody needs to interject and say "hey, this is just plain wrong or wild or ultimately useless" because the goal of this forum is to have useful and correct information to help people learn. I worry about new players seeing threads like these and picking up bad attitudes and ideas, or learning things that are just plain wrong. For your specific case I was more or less teasing you for what you said about Relius. A high tier setplay character with very questionable risk/reward being the good example of balance and design? That's some wild shit. Sorry I offended you to whatever degree, but I will try to cut up if you say something that silly. For the record almost ALL of this is horribly wrong. This is the problem, this is why I'm willing to say fuck it and just be super heavy handed, to stop this from happening. Sorry if that comes off as mean, but I can't have it happening anymore, and I can't count on people to actually correct things.

you're fine ;w; I'm just throwing in my 2 cents

Too bad Yukiko might not be viable anyways for other reasons :V No need to overthink it guys, an anti-air is something you hit to knock people out of the air. You AA with a lot of shit, hell try it with 5A sometime. Some are just better than others.

1. You block, then stand to tech a throw. 2. You block, then air throw them out of a jump or air skill (Narukami Raging Lion, for example). 3. You block, then just continue blocking The thing about the high/low block is you'll have to stand at some point, so a staggered 2A or something like that has a chance to catch you within like a 7~ frame window since you'll be standing. Here's the OS just run back to back, look at the inputs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27meQuoSDG0&feature=youtu.be The other thing is yeah, if they leave a sizeable delay or call you out and you just jump and whiff, they can punish you. Aigis does this with IAD j.C, Narukami/Mits do this with raw ass 2B, Yosuke has like 9 ways to blow this up, etc. They really have to call you out hard in order to punish you on this, like LK said he'd just use 2B in pressure to look for it, but that opens up other escape options.

Sorry, but until people can prove that they can handle it that's just how it is. End of discussion.

Yo, event is at Antioch on the 27th, same format, games are the same as last time.

When I said no to this kinda talk I meant it. No more reminders after this, just warnings.

The flaw is she's remarkably average and honest in a game where almost any character can send you hurtling into the sun because they felt like it.

I keep saying these things over and over again in hopes that one day I will not have to say them ;w; The point is less that new chars suck, and more that using education to explore a character early and find worth is really important. That's what we base the speculation on. Like, not that they're bad, but we can identify what's actually strong vs actually weak relatively quickly if we're intelligent about it. In some cases it's really obvious (day one Kokonoe we saw buttons, combo rate, black hole all miles ahead of the cast) in some it's more subtle (things like OSes beating Marie's stuff and button MU issues) for what it's worth. Edit: Btw, literally day one myself and a few other people said Adachi appeared strong. By the end of the first week with him we thought he was a high-mid range character and it still holds up! Most of our educated guess were pretty right. Forums are great for information, but remember literally ANYBODY can sign up and say ANYTHING, so make sure you listen to those who are worth listening to. This is why I'm actually pretty strict and boo hoo about information sometimes, I don't want a new player to believe something that sounded smart but was actually written by somebody who had no fucking idea what they were talking about.