Magaki

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Placeholder. Will update this thread with all the posts in their specific sections later and finally update the first post afterwards.

Welcome to the Elphelt board. Hope you will like it here ! There are 2 tricks to improve your consistency that you can use that are, actually, useful for plenty of Elphelt combos. First: For any 2H CH or 2H air hit>236P combos, try to walk forward slightly before doing cS. This will allow you to take care of any issue where the opponent end up too far and jH whiff during the combo. Very important against Zato and Venom. Second: For any air combo with jS>jH>jD ender, you must always add some delay between jS and jH in order to not have the opponent based on their height. If the delay was wrong, you will end up with the following results: -Opponent is too high and jH whiff. -Opponent is too low and jH hits but jD whiff. -Opponent was too high so jH and jD hits but no knockdown. Technically, there is also some delay that should be added between jH and jD that allows to get rid of the third issue but it doesn't concern that many characters so you can leave it for another time. Unfortunately, I can't give you better details on how much you have to delay during air combos because it's completely height and character specific so you always have to adjust accordingly. Though, through trial and error, you should be able to figure it out soon. Finally, the jSPS>djSPSHD air combo route isn't particularly stable. If you plan to add 2H CH>cS>Air combo in your game, I would suggest you to rather go for cS>jS>djKSHD. Obviously, it deals less damage than the former route but it's the most stable air route she got. Also the basis of berry relaunches so still important to know. Also, if you're in the corner, you might want to rather do: 2H (1) CH>236H>Walk forward slightly>Shotgun loop (+ SG-S link if you know how to do it) That's the optimized corner combo. Most of the time, you will get this kind of confirm against people who mash between cS/fS and 2H (2f gap). 2H>236H is also + on block so even if you didn't open them up, you can safely go into shotgun pressure. So it's a very rewarding and convenient frame trap.

Greed Sever is -13 on block so, in theory, you can always punish it. In practice, it's a bit more complicated because it hits crouchers quite late. Can't really bring accurate numbers here because the frame data doesn't specifically mentions when it does hit crouchers but judging the fact that it got 19f startup but it's still very easy to react to, I would say that it's safe to assume that it hits late like in previous games. Thing is that the frame data is calculated based on when you block it standing. Meaning that the more time you need to react to it (You were crouching and react by pressing 4), the lower the frame disadvantage is. Same thing with GS being used for footsies and only having the last active frames being blocked. Anyway, situations where fS gets blocked can happen yeah. Though, never saw a 2S or 2D not punishing a blocked GS (Both are 8f startup). Another reason why a punish would be blocked might be due to GS' attack level. It's a pretty big move so people assume it got a lot of blockstun/hitstop when it actually doesn't so people delay further their punish to hit with the right timing when they shouldn't (In Xrd, I would say the best example for this kind of move is definetely Venom's QV. Saw plenty of people get pressure reset for free due to its small attack level.) Options that will pretty much always work and are quite consistent: -IB>fS/microdash cS (Best punish) As long as you get used to actually not sliding from 1 to 4 when it comes to reacting to overheads but simply releasing 1 and tapping 4, this will always work. Also, microdash cS on crouching opponents is a painful punish and leads to ton of options with tension. -microdash 2P (Easiest punish) Should always work. Netplay or not. Also the most common punish you want to go for when you just don't want to bother going for the optimal punish in any matchup. Nice rewards on a 2P compared to other characters thanks to the Elphelt factor. Of course, there is still airthrowing on reaction but I would rather stick with easier (And actually more rewarding)solutions. Just to really make sure that it will work 100% of the time. Dunno about stuffing him with air normals though. Let's use some data to figure out the reactions required: Elphelt's jump startup is 3f. jP is 6f. If you want to stuff with a jP, you need to react at least 9f before the move hits. Assuming GS will hit on the first active frame, that would be 19f. So you need to react on GS' 10th frame maximum to stuff it with jP on reaction. Definetely doesn't look like it's possible to do that on reaction. Also, an IB>microdash cS punish will hurt much more than a jP/jS air hit into air combo.

Weird thing is that in CPE, you need 12 5C whiffed to fully recover. Might be 13 with autofire or if I mash harder. Just tested it now. Would make more sense if he meant that the gauge recover around 1,5 times faster. 236A>2C being a thing and so is 2C>6B is great though. Means we are back to either old 236A or less recovery on hit and that 6B is fast enough to have 2C>6B combo. Though, in 6B's case, might be that it hits crouching characters in the last active frames.

236A wolf canon untech nerf could be bad for S starters depending on how much was removed. Something like brjA>w5BC>w236A cause the opponent to air tech in CPE. Worst thing that could happen would be that S starters combos would require w5C>6D>wjA in the corner to combo resulting in much bigger wolf consumption. New overhead sounded like an interesting buff to grant him better mixups in human forum meterless. However, making it the new 6B sounds like an important nerf as 6B was an outstanding way to reset pressure + vacuum in human mode, allowed to get great damage and, most importantly, important wolf recovery especially when coupled with combos like corner 6B(1)>236C. Hope old 6B will come back. We are losing much more than we are gaining with that change. Rozen moving forward slightly could allow to avoid situations where 5C>236C whiffed if the opponent was too far. Dunno what to think of other changes. Need more data/footage to really understand whether they are significant or not. Gotta wait and see I guess. If that's really the only changes worth mentioning though, guess he will keep being top/high.

It's not that great but it's not that bad either. Just relying on it for neutral won't help much. Best way is to just use it once in a while to restrict the opponent's option without being too predictable with it. Focusing on fundamentals sprinkled with a few YRC here and there are better options in my opinion.

Ehhh, I don't think it's that bad at all. It's in Elphelt's favour for plenty of reasons in my opinion. A few things I would like to point out however: -You both struggle against Venom once he got balls and use them in neutral... But everyone does. And summoning them isn't free and require some commitment. Elphelt is great at rushing characters down. She certainly isn't Chipp or Millia for sure but she's still very good at doing that. The whole point of this matchup is to simply use the most basic law in fighters: RTSD aka Rush That Shit Down. Yeah, he got pokes and AAs like everyone. But his abare isn't that great at all. He also doesn't have great counter pokes like 2S and his j236S/H isn't as good as Elphelt's j214K to beat AA. Whatever he wants to go for to make you unable to get in with no balls, you can blow that up. -QV and H Stinger are NOT ways to reset pressure at all. QV might seem like it because its attack level is 0 despite not looking like one at all so instead of usually waiting a bit for the blockstun to end for unsafe moves, you need to mash as fast as possible. This is definetely reactable unless you're playing online I guess. H Stinger is -9 despite looking + like a sonic boom but it's definetely not. On the other hand, Venom can use a lot of normals to be pushed quite far then do S Stinger YRC to reset pressure but obviously, you won't be in blockstun at all when it will happen so you can just jump away when you notice he's getting quite far. What he will often use to reset pressure meterless is either Carcass raid ([2]8S) or tk Mad Struggle (tkj236S which is also his main overhead outside of okizeme situation. Not 5D.) but both need to be done quite close to make sure the opponent won't escape easily. In Carcass raid's case, a simple fuzzy jump will take care of it and he needs cS to make sure you won't easily mash out. Mad struggle would be very hard to react to if it could hit when immediately TK'ed but it's not and you need to delay it to get at least one hit making it reactable. Unless you play online that is. Either way, it's + on block but got a rather important pushback. If done very close, you can IB and throw him but FDing and pushing him quite far is also a good option and allows to go back to neutral. Again, don't forget he needs to be quite close to get that knockdown so using FD and fuzzy jumps are definetely great options to deal with his pressure. -Okizeme-wise, if he goes for basic jump jK>ball hit>jS/empty 2K/airdash jS>jH, there is not much you can do here as it is a legit 50/50. A few advices though: Don't forget that he can do microdash jump jK to do crossup so memorize the trajectory he takes when he does the microdash to figure out whether he will crossup or not. This will allow you to at least remove a layer of his okizeme mixups. If you notice the Venom player only goes for empty 2K or airdash jS>jH like a lot of Venom do, you can fuzzy guard the mixup with 1>4. Of course, a Venom aware of this trick will use jS more but this will allow you otherwise to have a solid and safe answer against his okizeme. Look closely at the ball he summons to prepare his okizeme. If the ball is going behind you and you notice the teleport (Do NOT wait for him to reappear to react. You can't. You have to react WHEN he's teleporting on the ground), make sure to block accordingly. The ball used to crossup is generally the H ball that got a very obvious trajectory once set. He will also always teleport where the last set ball is making it much easier than it looks like to deal with it. Make sure to test in training everything I mentionned in order to deal accordingly to the situations above. Otherwise, on the Elphelt side, things are much more simple: -Forget about pineberry in that matchup. It requires after all giving some momentum to trigger a grenade then throwing it. Something he can use to set a ball. Don't forget that in 1.1, Elphelt's grenade disappear on hit while Venom doesn't. Just rushing him should be enough. Check the last videos in the video thread to see what the JP Elphelt use. -Sniper is okay in that matchup until he gets a ball out. If you get a CH, you will be able to rush in but that's only if you manage to hit CH. Considering that only a few move are CH until end of recovery, that's a big gamble. -The fact that he got 4f jump startup instead of 3f is actually quite important. Plenty of stuff like SG-HxN during corner pressure is considered bad because the opponent can fuzzy jump as soon as he notices one SG-H and there is nothing you can do about that (SG-H>46H>SG-H/P got a 4f gap). 4f jump startup however means that if he attempts to fuzzy jump during SG-H spam, he will get hit. Therefore mixing in SG-H and SG-S is very annoying for him and even if he decides to be patient, SG-H's chip damage does stack up quite fast. Can also vary even more by getting out of shotgun stance and keep pressuring in normal stance or get a berry then do after a while backdash>toss. Up to you really; Therefore, shotgun is much stronger in pressure in that matchup than usual so going for it is strongly advised. It can also be used in neutral for a bunch of reasons. SG-K obviously can be used to disregard his zoning and footsies which is quite annoying to deal with (Remember, none of his normals are whiff cancelable unlike plenty of characters so he needs to take some risks against SG-K. Similarly, throwing out some 2Hs to go below stinger happy Venom can drive them nuts too.). SG-H is a projectile too and will cancel EVERY ball it will touch (if they are activated by one of his normals or stinger of course). SG-H YRC to cancel his balls and get in is a great option for instance. It's better to not reload though and get in normal stance. SG-S does trade quite often and are always in your favour thanks to its huge stagger. Finally, concerning Venom, unblockable setups and berry relaunches are quite annoying due to his obnoxious hurtbox. Don't forget to go for jK>jH for Alioune's setups and to shoot with rifle much faster than usual due to the fact that he wakes up the fastest.

Mind elaborating on what's giving you trouble ?

Thanks a lot ! Posted what I found here and waiting for confirmation. If someone is willing to check it out, I'll post and discuss the possible changes here and their consequences. As for SAT's tweeter account, here it is. Doesn't look like he could go to the loketest unfortunately.

Checked Notes' twitter for more informations regarding Carmine. I don't know much about japanese so I tried to use machine translation for every word to figure out possible changes he found. Mind correcting any mistakes for people who knows how to moonspeak ? Edit:Most changes were translated by SoWL [collapse] -3C got a bigger hitbox and 3[C] is now a thing. -236X and 6B got a worse proration and 6C is a worse starter. - 6B and 236X can't be canceled into CVO. - 623C>IW cancels during CVO. - Air FF stops momentum. - Overall 200-400 damage loss on combos. -Command grab deal 300-400 less damage. -2C>5BB>j6B or jABC?>2C>22A>CVO>dashC?>236A>J[C]>2B>2C>236C>623C>IW works -6C same starter proration as 3B. Also, no head invul on 6C. - He's talking about misinformation here regarding proration and 236X Something about amount of hits being unstable ? Not sure if he's saying it's false, true or just wondering. (Only part we aren't certain of.) - 3[C]>22B(puddle)>214C>2C>236B(2)>j6B>jCAB>2C>623A>dash C 3050 dmg Can substitute 214C for 236C in the corner. - 3[C]>22B not stable. Best to go for 3[C]>22C. Also, 3[C] got more reach than Merk's 5B. - Carmine's 2C will always lose against Gordeau's 2C but his 2A always win.(2). [/collapse]

This video should make you understand what safe jumps are and how they look like. Basically, what the Guile player is doing is simply jumping and using an air normal a bit before landing. If the opponent do anything with no invincibility or block, the air normal will hit. If he uses a move that got invincibility on the first frame, the air normal will whiff but you will land before the reversal hits you. That's why it's called a safe jump. You jump on your opponent and hit them and their only choice is to respect you. In Elphelt's case, you want to do jS>1P in training mode and make sure to delay the 2P a tiny bit. That way, if jS hits or is blocked, you will do 1P as soon as you land. If however jS didn't hit due to the opponent doing a reversal, you won't be affected by hitstop and will land right away which will allow you to block the reversal.

First, just to make sure, you know what a safe jump is ? Right ?

Couldn't find anything on twitter not already mentionned in the loketest thread. For people who didn't see, here are the changes reported so far in it: Force Function has been given a name - Roll up! (捲れ!) Force Function is now Air OK Can immidiately use other normals after aerial FF. Loses the ability to block in midair after the move. Force function is B+C in case someone forgot and that's when he creates/move puddles around. So far, it sounds like a very interesting buff and could help greatly in neutral. Especially if it's normal cancelable on block. Unless they changed the properties or untech time on some of our moves, I don't think it's gonna change much combo-wise. Maybe we could do stuff like j[C]>B+C>jB>jC>etc to avoid using a bounce for more damage and corner carry ? Or might allow for a much more stable substitute to corner j[C]>jB>2C ender. Anyway, anyone got Notsu or SAT's twitter hopefully ?

The grenade nerf barely affected her really. You can check the Elphelt changes thread for more details on her changes and I also explained some things concerning the grenade nerf here (Was made before we had the 1.1 patch.Though, I forgot to mention Bedman amongst the characters who got troubles dealing with it.) I thought the grenade change would actually help those 4 characters but after checking more JP matches and personal experience, it's still the same thing. They got no way to make you think in neutral: "Maybe I shouldn't do that". And thus, that's essentially free space control. About Bridal, be really careful with that because you need to consider whether you should attempt to punish it or not based on distance. An easy thing you can do with Elphelt is to push the opponent as far as possible then use Bridal that will make it + on block and leave you out of throw range. To give you an idea of its possible frame advantange, Bridal is -5 point blank with 12 active frames. That means that if it gets blocked at the last active frame, it becomes +7. Though, you will rarely get +7 but if you consider that Elphelt got a 4f jab, it means that even a +1 will make a big difference. Rather, the best answer to both ground and air Bridal is IB>throw OS. But that's, again, not guaranteed but still the safest and most likely option rather than getting pressure reset for free. To better deal with her in defense, I would suggest you to check the Sol matchup thread and come up with optimized answers to whatever she could throw out like Raiden did. As for neutral, I don't think it's really surprising that Bedman is badly struggling against her. I don't play him but the character I enjoy playing the most is Potemkin and against Elphelt, Venom or Ramlethal (1.0 Ram at least), it's always the same problem: They can throw shit on the screen and there is nothing you can do about it to make them think that doing that is a bad idea and I'm pretty sure that's the same problem for Bedman simply because his mobility sucks too. Obviously, Bedman can win in that matchup. But that would mean being much better than the Elphelt player and still doing more efforts. If I had to choose, I would definetely pick a sub to deal with her rather than play Bedman. Faust and Millia being probably the best choices. If you disagree with some stuff I've said though, please point it out and I'll be glad to discuss it.

I'll post here the safe jump explanation and theory since it was asked in that post. Hopefully that would spark some discussion ? Up to Charleon whether he wants to add them in his guide or not. Anyway, safe jump setups generally concern 214K or 2D>214K enders. Generally, the best choice is to throw a grenade for oki but with Bridal ender, toss oki looks something like 214K ender>dash 236P>2P toss>dash 2P/5K for pressure. Problem is that if the toss gets IB'ed, some characters like Sol can reversal and punish the dash normal afterwards. It's however possible to go for a safe jump (And mixups that go with it). It generally looks something like: ...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Safe jump/mixups Delay's length heavily depends on what you plan to do and against who. For the character specific part, it's actually very easy and got much more leeway than it looks like. More details in the list below. The possibilities are: 1-Safe jump: ...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Falling jS ​[collapse] Basic safe jump. Exactly what it looks like. You will need to delay it a bit on the characters that wake up a bit slower. Generally got a lot of leeway so you will get the gist of it really fast in training mode. Characters you want to work on are generally Sol, Elphelt or anyone with a particularly fast reversal. General combo afterwards is: jS>2P>cS/fS>2D>214K for 109 dmg Can add 2H on crouching opponents. Can do straight jS>cS for more damage but this will hurt your pressure options if jS gets blocked. [/collapse] 2-Empty low: ...>(2D)>Bridal>microdash>jump>Empty jump>2K/5K ​[collapse] Basic empty low. The idea is to skip the delay part completely in order to have 2K/5K hit meaty as a mean to beat fuzzy guard attempts. 2K is a much worse starter than 5K but it's faster and got decent gatlings if the opponent guesses the mixup right. Quite often, you will end up in throw range when doing that but on some characters, you can skip the microdash part and have 2K/5K hit outside of throw range this way but this will hurt your pressure options and rewards by quite a lot. Combo is generally: (2K)>5K>cS>2D>214K for 88 dmg (71 dmg with 2K starter) [/collapse] 3-Crossup: ...>(2D)>Bridal>delay microdash>jump>Falling delay jS (Midscreen only) [collapse] jS crossup and probably the best opportunity for Elphelt to use its great hitbox behind her. Idea here is to make the microdash slightly longer that will allow to crossup. There is a problem though, getting jS crossup>2P/5K is character specific due to jS' pushback. You also need to delay the jS as much as possible to not be affected by the crossup protection and have as much hitstun as possible when you will land. Also, because of the pushback, the only normal that can universally combo is 2D which is safe for you due to its jump and special cancel properties if it gets blocked but gives you less time to hitconfirm and decide what you want to go for next. Make sure you don't autopilot 2D>214K however unless you want to be badly punished if jS gets blocked. Finally, neutral blitzshield will beat both safe jump jS and crossup jS. Because of all those reasons, that's not something you should abuse but only do to vary your mixup options. Basic combo: jS crossup>2D>214K for 97 dmg [/collapse] 4-Late airdash: ...>(2D)>Bridal>microdash>jump>Late airdash>jS>jP>(jP)>jS [collapse] Another (and your best) answer to fuzzy blocking and a very strong mixup option at the same time. Basic idea is to not do the delay at all, do the microdash jump and airdash as close to the ground as possible. jS will rarely hit meaty however but disrespecting it is quite hard so it's a decent oki tool but gives more time to do reversals/backdashes/gold burst/etc. You can check by yourself in training mode but even with 3f normals, it's not possible to hit her out of it. The pros though ? Obviously it will beat fuzzy blocking but it also allows you to get ANOTHER mixup in case the first jS gets blocked. Either you go for the full overhead string which is jS>jP>jP>jS so 4 overheads in a row or do something like jS>jP>(jP)>2K. If done well, it's not possible to hit her out of 2K and she will be outside of most throw ranges. Definetely her best option both in terms of rewards and pressure. BnB: [CR] jS>jP>jS>cS>fS>2H>2D>214K (151 dmg) 2K>5K>cS>2D>214K (71 dmg) [/collapse] You should have noticed that every combos will end with Bridal ender again allowing to either go for safe jump/mixup setup OR RC the Bridal to go for shotgun loop or unblockables. Up to you. As a rule of thumb, if it kills, get your shotgun. If it doesn't, get your rifle. Finally, you can also add throws here and there for more mixups options but throws are easier to beat and not that great midscreen at all.