Magaki

Haha, I like how when I mentioned before that Yuzu's zoning was quite honest compared to other characters, I was thinking about Vatista's and Hilda's. First with Vatista, you need to keep in mind that she needs to commit to any special she wants to do because all of her specials requires a specific charge. With 46, she gets an orb. With 64, she gets the beam. With 28, she gets the flashkick. With 82, the divekick. And she gets a bomb by holding a button. Understanding that is important because it will allow you to know what she can do in given situations. Obviously, after using a special, she can still charge during it. That's how you can do orb>beam right away with her. It's important because if you see her standing, you can be certain she won't be able to do the flashkick right away. If you see her walking forward, the beam might be coming but you're certain she won't be able to use the orb. Etc. Observing what Vatista in neutral is doing is vital for the neutral game. Once you get that, your job becomes much easier. As for her zoning itself, it's good but not strong enough to make you unable to advance. Playing safe against her and slowly getting in isn't really a problem. Watch out though for the bombs in neutral. If she can force you to block one and she's not too far, she can get in and start pressuring you. And trust me, her 50/50 can be a real pain to deal with. So basically your gameplan is simple, if you're fullscreen, you would prefer to walk forward or dash block while looking at Vatista in order to know what she might do until you're midrange. Shielding projectiles isn't a bad idea to get GRD. You can also throw out a 22C once in a while if you're predicting that the Vatista will press buttons. Throwing out 6Bs isn't a bad choice though because unless you get hit during the startup, 6B will cancel with a zoning special. If you manage to get a puddle close to her, you can start threatening her with 623B/tk 236B/22B and get a knockdown allowing you to get in. Midrange though, Carmine's normals and 236A/B completely dominates so make sure to abuse them. You can also try to beat reversal happy Vatista's with assault>j236B. The fact that it blows Carmine backwards while throwing it is really good in that matchup (compared to, let's say, Gordeau or Merkava where it's not really a great idea at this range.) Close range, Carmine also has the advantage thanks to his normals. Flash kick is still a huge threat though because of its amazing hitbox so always watch out for that. Summary: The matchup requires a lot of patience from the Carmine player and the closer he is, the higher his chances to win. Problem is that the bombs might give huge troubles to him thanks to their blockstun/hitstun allowing Vatista to get in. Her pressure can be quite difficult to deal with though. But obviously, so is Carmine once he gets in. Therefore, being careful with midrange and fullscreen with Carmine while understanding all her options is the most important of the matchup. Neutral changes radically however if Carmine manages to get a puddle close to her but you will need to take risks in order to have that puddle there. As for Hilda, well, I didn't play any Hilda strong enough to properly understand the matchup. What I usually do is to watch what they do and vary between respecting and getting in with air assault/dashing forward. Carmine's zoning do feel kind of useless in that matchup though so it's better to be patient and wait for the right opportunity to get in while shielding what she throws at you. If you're tired of her pressing buttons, you can just throw a 22C and get in for free this way. Keep in mind though that her hitboxes aren't as great as it looks like. She doesn't have that many moves that cover both the ground and the air with a range worth mentioning. Well, against Carmine at least. But it depends of the kind of Hilda you deal with. Against Hildas who rather prefer to turtle and punish any attempts to get in, it's better to throw a 6B and use the puddle to your advantage. Against her, everytime you activate a puddle with a special, even though it might trade, it will always be in your advantage. But yeah, I really need to try having some games with a Hilda worth mentioning. Don't have any in my local scene and I didn't meet any good one with netplay so it's possible that I'm completely wrong about her. I would however suggest you to watch some Hilda vs Carmine matches (I think Notsu is a safe bet here), pick up ideas and try them out against the Hilda player you mentioned. Tell us if you found anything that work. Hopefully, a Hilda player will reply here and tell us whether it's a good idea or not.

What I do after a 22B outside 2C range usually is 22B>236C in the corner. Technically, if you use meter, the 2 moves you can use to follow up are either 236C or 22C. Problem is that you don't have the time to hitconfirm that. So if you consider the space control 236C offer you if your opponent block, 236C is the best choice. However, 236C whiffs if you hit with the tippity tip of 22B with small characters like Linne. That's a situationnal risk but still a risk. Also, 22B>22C does give you enough time to set 2 traps and use concentration. If you manage to get 5 GRD block with that, you get back all the meter you used so if you prefer to use sparingly your ressources, 22C might be the way to go even though if the opponent blocks it, it's back to neutral but you can be certain that on hit, it will always work. Kane however had a great idea which is to use CS after 22B. I tested it in training and whether it is on hit or block, it's quite amazing. On block, you have enough time to dash in, press 5B, and the opponent is still in blockstun ! On hit, you get some pretty cool reward just by doing dash>2C>236A right away and go for a corner carry combo or corner combo if you're in the corner. So yeah, if you got CS, I would definetely recommend to do 22B>CS whenever you can. With meter, I would suggest to go for 236C in the corner or 22C midscreen. I didn't watch that much Crimson's matches but his style and SAT's are definetely different. Thanks for pointing it out man. 214[A] is our best meaty yeah. Be careful though midscreen because back tech is quite strong in that game. Make sure to keep your fingers on A, B and C midscreen. This way, if you see your opponent back teching, press B+C and release A in order to force them to block it anyway. Then rush and do assault>j236B to make them block it in order to keep your blood pressure going. As long as you at least try to read previous posts in order to check whether your question was already asked or not, you can ask as many questions as you want. IIRC, you were hanging around the Arakune and Teddie board before right ? Glad to see you decided to main Carmine, another character I love. I'm looking forward to the new techs you might find. Well, if you don't mind sharing them of course. Here's the midscreen combo: 214C>2C>6B>2C>236A>Charged j.C>2B>j.A>j.B>j.C>3B>2C (3059 dmg) Sourenga's wiki uses 214C>5B>6B instead but 5B>6B isn't really consistent here. In the corner, you should rather go for: 214C>2C>6B>2C>236A>66C>236B>Charged j.C>JB>2C>623A>66C I tested both on Linne (worst hurtbox for Carmine) and they work fine so it's probably universal.

If he does it really close, yeah you can't really react to that and it's purely based on whether or not you respect him at this distance. If however he does it from where you said Seth has huge troubles (outside 2C range), then in that case it's much riskier for him to do 2A whiff cancel and dash in/assault to reset pressure. His safest option will still be after a whiff cancel to either poke you or reset blood pressure so it doesn't really change anything: If Carmine really wants to do what makes him so strong, he needs to go for blood pressure in the end. Otherwise, his pressure becomes completely basic and I don't think I need to explain how to deal with that. Nice. Carmine seems unbelievably strong if you don't understand him but once you get that his pressure is divided in 2 parts, pre-blood and blood, you can easily understand why he's considered to be mid-tier and not high. As for his defense, his only reversal cost meter and it's a command grab. 3B is also quite slow so once you make him block, go ham !

Glad to hear it. I'll tell you more things about the pseudo-infinite so it will be easier for you in the future to deal with it. Doing it is quite simple, you need to do ( 236A>214[A]>]A[ ) XN The reason why it's a pseudo-infinite is because there is a gap between the 214[A] and ]A[. Problem is that the Carmine player will activate it right away simply because ]A[ doesn't disappear on hit. It does disappear however if you get hit BEFORE activating it. That's why reversals are a bad idea because even if you do hit him, you will get hit by ]A[ anyway. Which obviously what makes the pseudo-infinite so ridiculously strong. Unless you got a reversal command grab, you only have another way to deal with it, 214D. There are obviously way for Carmine to block it but unless you do 214D between 214[A] and ]A[, he has to bait it and commit so make sure you're careful while using 214D. I would recommend to use it in Vorpal. In order to get Vorpal when he's pressuring you in the corner, make sure to look at his spacing. It's true that he can punish guard shields if done during 236A with dash throw even though it's hard and, most of all, he needs to be quite close. So if you shield when he gets pushed back by 214[A], you're guaranteed to get your GRD blocks. Be careful when he's close though because he can do instead 214>throw during the pseudo-infinite. If the throw is teched, the trap will automatically disappear so you can start getting in. Another thing quite important, be careful with his normals especially in the corner because he can end all of them with 22A/B which is a frame trap. It's really useful against Seth players who mash 623A and call them 'hard reads' and leads to rather nice rewards. If the Carmine player is too far though, he can still use meter and do 22B>22C which will end up with Carmine dashing and doing 214[A]>214>concentration which most of the time means he will steal all your GRD blocks.

Of course because that's his best way to reset pressure and go straight for blood pressure. Why did you think I went with 5 different patterns with only one of them using 236A on purpose ? Because it was fun ? No it was obviously because I wanted to know whether it was possible to react to it or not. I don't think there is anything particularly complicated here. If Carmine wants to go for blood pressure, he needs 214[A/B] or 236A. If he can't use 214[A/B], he can only go for 236A. Did you actually even bother checking the huge startup the move has ? Why do you think the top jap Carmines prefer to go with frame traps during their pressure and only use 236A once in a while ? I guess they are all full of theories too right ? Like with the example of Merkava's MU when you just can't take that risk simply because he can 2C/5B you on reaction hence why Notsu or SAT don't use it at all against him. But then again, that's complete theorycraft for you.

I actually tested j236B in training mode. The recovery is indeed way too big and it seems the only way to make sure that j236B isn't in 6B's range is with an air backdash so it's indeed not that reliable. There is indeed a setup to force the opponent to either take the command grab or get hit by a 236A/B but it leads to poor damage and is a bad idea in the corner (Carmine's goal considering you can only make sure your opponent can't escape there.) so it's only something he does when going for the kill. Another important point is that if he doesn't go for the setup, his command grab isn't +0 after superflash so you can jump on reaction. Also, attempting any kind of mixup with Carmine while in the middle of blood pressure means that he will lose said blood pressure and won't be able at this point to reset pressure safely. Usually, when a mixup attempts fail and his blockstring ends, his 2 best choices are: -Poking you out with 5B/2C against hasty opponents. -Resetting blood pressure with 214[A]/236A. You can usually jump out of a 5B/2C when it happens but I wouldn't recommend it as it's way too risky. Usually, whatever option he choose, he will need at some point to go for blood pressure again and that's where you have to punish him. You mentioned before that pressure resets are difficult to deal with outside of 2C range but it actually does make your job easier because he can't use 214[A] at this range meaning he can only go for 236A whose animation is particularly obvious. I already tested it on training to see how it would look like for Seth and I used a dummy using 5 different patterns with one of them using 236A and even with 8 frame delays on the inputs, you can still punish a 236A on reaction with 623A. Obviously, considering that I play Carmine, I'm used to the animation so it will be harder for anyone not used to him hence why it's better to train in order to recognize and react faster. So no, there definetely is no need to do any hard reads here. Anything else in defense you have troubles with ?

Please, post in the matchup section for this kind of question. As for the matchup itself, 236B is quite important to control space here (Don't abuse it though because he can use 214A against that. tk236A is a safer choice though but the angle isn't as good as 236B). 236B does shut a lot of flight options but you can decide to dash under him if he decides to stay in flight mode way too long. If he's right above your head in flight mode, you can just stand there and shield. His most obvious answer would be to go down in order to GRD break you with a throw or a low but if he does that, he's in the right range for you to poke him. He might also decide to go for j2C whiff>throw/low but you can react to that and hit him thanks to his landing recovery. Not sure about punishing 3C but punishing 236C is quite hard. You have to guard shield the hit before the last one in order to successfully shield the last hit which will makes it go from -3 to -6 but that's not something you will see often trust me. It's possible with Carmine yeah but there is a risk. If you mess up and guard shield the last hit instead, you will make 236C + on block.

I agree with ground segments losing hard against his 6B but I disagree with your opinion about the air version fullscreen. j236B can be quite annoying for Carmine to deal with especially when Seth is blocking right before it. If the Carmine player however likes to spam 6B way too much, shielding the move and getting GRD for Vorpal is a pretty good idea especially when you consider that Carmine loses less health in Vorpal. I agree however with Carmine having a big advantage at midrange. 5C and 3C however are a huge gamble Carmine is doing at this range because they aren't particularly fast and do have quite the recovery. I disagree with the hard reads part however while you're defending. Please tell me the kind of pressure you had to deal with so far especially when you're mentioning the 100 meter part. There is no need for Carmine to use meter at all in pressure because he already got all the tools he needs meterless to force his opponent to respect him with or without blood pressure.

Would you mind elaborating more about what you do in neutral and defense ? While it's true that getting in is both Seth's and Carmine's goal, Carmine is much better at doing that thanks to his zoning but Seth is really hard to deal with at close range. Carmine's hitboxes aren't as big as the sprites make it look like. In fact, the only normal that does have a reach as big as the sprite and is insanely good is 2C. It's true that jC is good but unlike Waldstein, anti-airing Carmine isn't a problem; You also have to keep in mind that 6B (What you call the sword) at max range is pretty good to zone but he doesn't get anything particularly great out of it. Well, meterless that is. Otherwise he can do 6B>B+C>22C and get in for free thanks to that. Another thing you have to keep in mind is that jumping is extremely risky against Carmine because his 2 main neutral tools are 6B and tk 236A/B. And trust me, you don't want to get hit by 236A/B raw unless you don't mind losing half of your health and guaranteed corner carry. I would have to say however that I'm quite surprised to see that you didn't mention what is truly difficult to deal with against Carmine. Like the pseudo-infinite blockstring for example. What does your opponent specifically does during pressure ? You have to keep in mind that if you're not already blocking a 236A or a trap (what we call the blood pressure) and he uses 236A/214[A] you have to immediately punish him because the gap created by both moves when done in blockstrings with normals is quite big. But then again, if you didn't mention anything like the pseudo-infinite, it's highly possible that he doesn't know how to properly use the blood pressure and make the most out of it. So, again, what does he specifically do ? Knowing Carmine's options and when to punish him when he's pressuring you is the most important part of the matchup. If you don't know that, mindlessly mashing your way through or using reversals is what you will usually go with and a good Carmne got tons of way to be completely safe while pressuring and punishing you at the same time. Despite what you said though, matchup feels even. Maybe Carmine got a slight advantage but it can't be more than 5.5 anyway.

Nice ! New posts ! Quite glad to see this thread is becoming livelier ! Like Kane pointed out, the problem with 66C is its odd hitbox and the required spacing. On some characters, it will always work. On others, you need to walk backward a bit to make it work. I will take a wild guess and say that 66C's hitbox is quite big above Carmine but not that great in front and below him so spacing is as important as timing here. Just keep grinding it out and you will be used to it eventually. Woops ! My bad ! Definetely need to stop writing posts when I'm really tired I guess haha. I thought it was a typo and you wanted to write 623 otherwise you would have instead went with 63214C for the reversal. 214C is godlike though against Gordeau because 63214C completely whiffs against him if he was doing 214A. Also, not sure if everyone here know but command grab reversals in that game aren't +0 after superflash. It means that if you weren't doing anything, you can jump out of it when you recognize the animation. Or just 214A for Gordeau. It's not really that bad though because the recovery is quite short for a reversal so it makes it hard for the opponent to properly punish it if they plan to jump. Yeah, that's something that I need to add in my game too. Thing is that I'm an extremely aggressive player so I prefer to use my meter for defense in case it backfires. I prefer to go for 214>throw. During the pseudo-infinite, it forces the opponent to make a choice. Either I throw and they try to tech it or they think I'll try to throw and eat ]A[ instead because I chose to keep my pressure going. 63214C however might be quite cool if you go for the kill so I definetely need to keep that in mind. Also, I'm certain a lot of people noticed already but it does indeed seem that if you put a 214 on the ground and throw but your opponent teched, the trap will disappear. You activate it during the throw though before the throw tech happens but I never managed to make it so that it will force the opponent to get hit/block after the throw tech. Anyway guys, if you got ideas to share or just want to express your opinion about something, please don't hesitate posting it even if you feel like it might be really silly. After all, your post might help a reader to think about a completely new idea that might bring new techs. We also have a new matchup section now so if you need some help, don't hesitate asking !

3B do have some invul but it's slow. Either AA with 5A or 3B. They don't do 623A but 623B. The hitbox is bigger.

Ohh yeah, my bad. I'll make sure next time to carefully read what I write haha. Anyway, I tried to add in my game the assault jA>236A hit mixup during the pseudo-infinite. Sadly, it seems that it's actually character specific because jA will simply whiff on the mentioned characters: Doesn't work on: Linne, Vatista, Yuzu, Hilda, Seth, Merkava, Hyde Doesn't work point blank: Eltnum, Nanase, Orie Our rewards aren't that great on it either if we consider the combo: Assault j.A>236A(hit)>5A>2C>5B>623B>j.6B>66C>236A>Charged j.C Which does something like 2243 dmg without vorpal or veil off. Anyway, this is a mixup that you can easily add in the pseudo-infinite and it's quite hard to react to it but still possible so don't abuse it. Against characters who makes jA whiff though, just go for assault jC combos instead.

Matchups analysis: Akatsuki Byakuya Carmine Chaos Eltnum Gordeau Tomo009 (Partial Analysis) Hilda Hyde Linne Tomo009 (Ideas) Merkava SoulGuitarist (Ideas) Killey (Complete Analysis) Nanase Orie Seth Vatista Magaki (Partial analysis) Waldstein Yuzuriha

623C has no invul at all. Its only purpose is to be used when you go for the kill with 22C>Veil off>236C>623C. 214C doesn't seem to have any invul too but it's something you will only use when you definetely know when there will be an important gap in your opponent's pressure. Our only reversal is technically 41236C. But it's a command grab and obviously, there are a lot of things that beat it. Thankfully, what usually beats 41236C loses to 214C. If you want to go for a reversal with invul, our only choices are 41236C, 214D (make sure you're in vorpal) and Veil off. A lot of people forget about that but the defense mechanics are really strong in that game so as a Carmine player, you have to make sure to understand them and know when you have to or should go for it.

Depends if you have a puddle around or not. If you do, go straight for 2C>236A. Otherwise, pick the 2C>j6B route.

Wait for them to tech. Then release B and see if they block it or not. If they don't and get hit, combo. If they block it, use 236A and you can decide to either mixup or go for the pseudo-infinite blockstring for nasty frame traps. Midscreen, you will rather go for 214[A]>236A. If the opponent back tech, do B+C>]A[ and do the same as described above. No tricks honestly for 66C>236A. It's just a simple special cancel. Might sound confusing though because Bling wrote both 66C and dash C in the combo. Obviously, both are the same move so if you were doing 6C, there is no way you can combo 236A after it. The 3 normals you will often combo into are 236A/B are j[C], 2C and dash C.

22A is only +1 on block and you can get mashed out of 623A/B quite easily because of that. 623A/B also seems to be - on block with or without a puddle so it's not really a great choice for pressure. -Tried SWD's infinite blockstring. Guard shield affects it way too much. And you have to dash in afterwards to reset pressure creating unnecessary gaps while you could deal with guard shield with the pseudo-infinite just by walking forward slightly. Better idea to stick with pseudo-infinite it seems. -Also seems that you can't partially charge 6[C] in order to do 6C>2B/2C. It's either 6C or 6[C]. It seems that we can just slightly charge it but it's still to fast for the opponent to react so it's not really reliable. We still got 22A anyway to make it safe afterwards so it's no big deal really.

3B and 5A are his main anti-airs. It heavily depends on if you have a puddle around or not though combo-wise. Anyway, every 3B starter in the wiki is an anti-air combo. That's quite interesting but it actually isn't something that would benefit to Carmine. The main goal of the pseudo-infinite is to extend for a long time our blood pressure and it got in it a frame trap allowing to deal with mashy opponents for an easy hitconfirm. The problem with a true infinite blockstring is that the only thing it can allow us is to end up in a situation when both characters have 1 HP in the end. It doesn't allow us to open our opponent's guard up at all so in order to mixup, we will need to commit to it. Anyway, I thought about using 214 with 214[A] for an even stronger pressure but didn't think of using tk 236B meanwhile. So, congrats man, you found something really cool. And thank you very much for sharing it here. I just tried it out a bit today but so far I only see 2 weaknesses. First, it requires you to be really close to the opponent so every grab reversal can actually get you if there is even a tiny hole. Second, it seems that there can be gaps because of how guard shield works. I'll test it more tomorrow but despite how it doesn't seem as useful and safe as the pseudo-infinite, it's definetely an important tech that should be added in my game. Also, 236B whiffing on crouch is one of Notsu's most common mixup. You basically do 236B if your opponent respects you (which honestly seems to happen a lot if you're a top player. Not surprising though.) then dash throw. If it gets teched, he has to block it. Otherwise, we go for blood oki.

@Pinglh I honestly have troubles understanding what you mean with your post. Do your perhaps means that you reset your blockstring by letting 5C going through the whole recovery then doing 5C again to reset pressure ? There is a noticeable gap your opponent can react to without even mashing because of 5C's huge recovery. I could understand if it was 5B which is a much better idea but why specifically 5C ? Unless you meant something else ? @Ryd Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice ! So that means that the best oki we can pull off consist of 2 Rip apart and 1 spin around. Sounds really cool and extremely strong in the corner. @worldjem I never noticed vorpal affected the health drained ! Can you, however, indicate your source ? I'm quite curious and I honestly wonder where you found data as accurate as that. @Jimmy I already knew that but I completely forgot to add it in my game. Definetely gonna try it out in matches ! So, like I said, I tried to add in my game what Bling suggested. Which is to use 5B>5AA. The options you have thanks to that are just amazing. Not only does 5B>5AA allow an easy hitconfirm but you can do a lot of stuff from there. For example, here's a blockstring really useful in a lot of matchups because of the spacing it actually gives you in order to safely go for blood pressure: (dash)5B>5AA>5C>6C>2C>2A whiff/236A/6B/22B in the corner Doing 5B>5A in order to start your pressure can also be a pretty good idea. From there, you can frame traps with a C normal or dash throw for a tick throw. Really strong option to start pressure that I recommend in a lot of matchups.

Didn't see sword's post so I'm making a double post for people who have already read what I mentionned before. Especially considering that it's quite important. Anyway, you have to keep in mind that instant overheads doesn't exist in that game. When you jump, any move done during the rising part of the jump is automatically a mid even if its property make it an overhead as an air normal. It was something that we already knew way before the game was released on console in order to avoid stupid situations like in UNiB with Orie and Vatista's IOH. If you're looking for mixup options with Carmine, you either have to go with assault jC or jump>j[C]>jB>jA. You can also omit the jA and go for 2B instead. This is a common mixup during blood pressure and definetely something I need to do more. Interesting use of 214 though. Sounds really strong in the corner. Here's another tech of mine I discovered lately. During the pseudo-infinite, instead of doing 214[A], do 214 then dash throw without releasing B. It's even better in the corner because if the opponent techs, you can release B and force him to block. Considering you already have a 214 set if it wasn't teched, you can either set 214[A] this time or use concentration to get more GRD. Something else you can use after a 22C in the corner: 22C>dash 214[A]>214>Concentration>]A[>delay>]B[>starts pressuring. Never saw Notsu do it before but basically, it consists of using the first ]A[ to force the opponent to block in order to allow you to use concentration much longer and ]B[ once you feel like he's no longer in blockstun to stop using concentration and keep your pressure going.

I would really love to but I can't really give you any tips here to be honest. The second 2C is a link so there is nothing worth mentioning about it. Maybe you're dropping the combo because you're too far ? The problem with that combo is that it doesn't work at max range (that's when you have to go for the 2C>6B>5BB route instead). If it can also help you, you can try to do it in the corner because this combo pretty much works everywhere. True, it won't help you to figure out the spacing especially for dash 2B which is probably the most annoying part of the combo but at least you will get the timing for the 2nd 2C faster. @Kane. Yeah. Like Bling explained, our pressure pre-blood consist of either going for frame traps to deal with mashers or adding a 236A/214[A] in a blockstring if they respect us OR we got the right spacing. For example, getting the right spacing to force close range characters (Seth, Akatsuki etc) is quite easy. You will, however, NEVER be safe against Gordeau and Merkava. So, the way you plan to pressure depends heavily of the matchup and so does the risk you will take. You will have to learn the spacing per character by yourself and also what they can all do to stop you in training mode. Speaking of frame traps, the way we handled frame traps heavily improved since the start of this thread. Situation was quite pitiful before because 5A/2A>XC was our only way to pull it off and 5A/2A's range usually only allowed us to do one frame trap per blockstring. And end it with 2A whiff cancel in order to be safe simply because 2A's was probably just meant for that. I don't get why its range would be so bad otherwise. 22A being a frame trap AND +1 at the same time radically improve our pre-blood pressure game as well as our hitconfirm. It's better suited in the corner though. As for dealing with neutral with Carmine, like mentionned before, there is two way to deal with it. The Notsu way and the SAT way. Notsu consist of using 6B and 5B in neutral while SAT would rather focus on tk 236A. Like I explained, the Notsu way is pretty good for zoners and the SAT way is a better approach against rushdown characters. Obviously, you will want to use SAT's against Seth and Linne which not only effective but also really rewarding. Keep also in mind that you can cancel Seth's orb by touching it with any hitbox. A 2A on it is usually the best. You can go for throws too if you want. And don't forget, one of the reason Seth sucks so much is because delay tech really hurt his okizeme game. That's a tactic that a lot of great players used against Rion and it resulted in him being unable to keep his pressure going leading to a rather quick death. A few things I would like to point out however: -If you feel like zoning because you're dealing with a player who got an oustanding neutral (or just dealing with Merkava.) you will always want to at least have a puddle on the ground. Your best option for this is actually j6B. Its angle allow you to stop a lot of approaches and it helps a lot against anti-air/Grim Reaper happy players. Then, you can go for 236A/tk 236A. 236A with a puddle on the ground is really hard to deal with. If you're midrange, it's free blood pressure so make sure to rush and don't let him escape ! -The more I use it, the more I'm starting to feel like 2C is a really amazing poke. Its range is just outstanding and only a few characters seem to be able to deal with its speed and hitbox at the right range. Of course, you won't get a recovery as fast as 5B so it's up to you to decide whether you should take a risk and poke with 2C or rather be safe and go with 5B. -Consider that 5BB and 3C doesn't exist in pressure at all. Unless you really want to take a huge risk. Those moves are only special cancelable on block. It means that you will obviously have a gap if you special cancel meaning it's an instant reversal in your face. Your best bet actually is to either use 22A and either block if they plan to reversal or press 5A to reset pressure. Anyway, you're taking unnecessary risks with those moves so it's better to only use them as combo fillers. Hope that will help you anyway. Also, do you guys have any idea about what we could do to transfer all the datas we found and shared somewhere ? I'm thinking about maybe making a pastebin or something like that that would be edited by the community but I don't a lot of experience with that sadly. I'm certain however that it will buy a lot of time for both newbies and veterans in the future.

Was already mentioned before and the blockstun isn't big enough to allow you to get in from fullscreen. If your opponent also was indeed far away, your 214[A]>B+C would whiff and the move actually got quite the noticeable recovery and animation making it really easy to guess what you're doing and being predictable in neutral is a really bad idea for Carmine. 214[A] was also mentioned before as being part of the infinite blockstring. While I can understand that it might be a pain to read everything from the beginning, a lot of informations explained here will buy you a lot of time so I would suggest you to read the whole thread. Especially when it's, sadly, the least active character section. But then again, we don't have any troublemakers and interesting ideas are being shared so I'm quite satisfied. Anyway guys, got some good news: I asked a friend if he could use his video capture card to get us more frame datas. -6[C] is actually (like a lot of overheads it seems) 28f startup. Which is, obviously, a lot. Here's the important part though. The ball indicating the move is charging only comes out at the 14th frame which explains why the move appear so slow but is quite hard to react to. Doesn't mean you have to abuse it though. -22A is actually +1 on block. Yeah, it's not as amazing as Gordeau's 22A who is +7 it seems but +1 isn't that bad consdering that all our normals are special cancelable on block and the C normals will all lead to frame traps with 22A.

Yeah. Our pressure pre-blood (that's how I call it when we didn't force the opponent to block a 214[A] or a 236A yet) basically relies on either frame traps or doing using 214[A] and 236A in pressure. After many matches, I would say that 214[A] is much harder to react to. Going for 214[A]>]A[>236A right away is a really safe choice and gives nice rewards if the opponent mashed after 214[A]. Didn't think however of using 5B>5AA to extend my blockstrings. Opponents will obviously be more willing to mash against long blockstrings than short ones after all. Definetely have to add that in my game !

I already found this a while ago and pointed it out in the news & gameplay section and posted a comment here about what we could do with it. If you get a hit, you will jump meaning it's the end of your pressure. You can't get a frame trap with it either. So its only use is for spacing purpose in certain matchups against opponent who can't poke you out of a 236A in blockstrings because you're too far.

Various things I would like to point out: -I actually did a huge mistake. It seems that you can indeed back tech against normal throw midscreen. -214A/B after a 22C, throw or reversal throw after all isn't that bad midscreen. Simply because you can react to the back tech and do B+C. Seems that B+C cover the same space a back tech does so this is quite convenient. - The j[C]>2B>2C route in the combo: 5A>5B>2C>6B>2C>236A>Charged j.C>2B>2C>623A>66C ​Doesn't work on: Chaos, Orie, Vatista and Gordeau. 2C whiffs even in the corner.