mixedmethods

Actually, Yosuke may suffer against Ken. Dopples wrote a bit about that MU in the news thread. It seems like Yosuke and Aigis are going to have to be very on-point with air-blocking and air approaches, as Ken's range means they're vulnerable to being tagged on approach and retreat. Aigis does have her Orgia backdash (fast, sends her airborne and out of range, 7f invuln... could probably be punished if Ken has the meter and positioning to super), and new Orgia air roll, though, and Ken's 2B isn't looking as strong as his j.B and j.A, but I'm not sure how much good that does Yosuke and Aigis. It reminds me of Yosuke and Aigis vs. Shadow Labrys: Yosuke and Aigis dominate the air, but against Shadow Labrys, jumping becomes very risky due to Flame of Hades; projectiles may stop movement of the persona, or, in this case, the dog, but at least for Aigis, 2B is no longer a magic Get the Hell Off Me button (it halts Asterius and annoys Shadow Labrys players but it isn't as effective as it is in other MUs)... Yosuke's kunai could prove more of a challenge, as they deal more damage than Aigis's 2B (particularly with SB kunai inflicting poison), as long as Yosuke doesn't get hit out of the air. Both Aigis's 2B and Yosuke's kunai would stop Koromaru from approaching, but that's not necessarily a solution. Since I'm most familiar with Aigis, I'll stick to her -- 2B would knock Koromaru down, but the risk there is that Ken set Koromaru as a trap planning to roll 2B or potentially use Charge Thrust, destroying 2B's purpose as a GTFO option. The other issue is whether or not hitting Koromaru counts as Aigis's 2B successfully hitting, as it's jump-cancelable on hit only. 2B > jc j.A isn't going to work if Ken is sufficiently far away or if hitting Koromaru doesn't register as a successful hit. The available data strongly suggests (I'd say "all but confirms," but there may be something we've yet to see) that you must actually hit Ken, as we've seen Ken escape supers and normals thanks to Koromaru being at his feet and forcing opponents to whiff moves. On the other hand, Yosuke is always crazy fast and Aigis gets to ~fly in Orgia, so Ken's slower start-up time on ground normals may allow Yosuke and Aigis to bait out his moves and jump Koromaru for a punish. Of course, we don't know what Ken's dash-cancelable moves are, and his run speed isn't bottom-tier, so this is pure theory. Yosuke's 2B could give Ken grief if Ken takes to the air, and Garudyne now auto-tracks for a CH from fullscreen at ridiculous speed, so Yosuke isn't helpless. Both Yosuke and Aigis are going to need to be careful with their j.Cs (or in Aigis's case, learn the spacing), as Ken looks like he's going to excel at breaking cards, and persona-broken Aigis is sad times. That being said, Pandora Missile Launcher might have some application in this match, as it Fatal Counters, hits full screen, and will shut down anything Koromaru and Ken are doing other than blocking. To add another bit of speculation, I think Shadow Labrys and Teddie are in for a tricky time in this MU. Koromaru normals deal more than enough damage to break Asterius's auto-guard, so Shabrys has to have Asterius block or risk having set-ups and cards destroyed; Koromaru may be able low profile Flame of Hades the same way he can get past Yukiko's fans; and Ken out ranges Shadow Labrys on the ground. For Teddie, items may not be as effective if Ken sends out Koromaru or times 5B/Charge Thrust in prediction, which could give Ken an easy way to pick off cards and shutdown a lot of Teddie's game. Narukami is still Narukami, though. 5B > 5C dash cancel > MY BUTTONS ARE BETTER THAN YOUR BUTTONS is always going to be a pain in the ass. The one upside is that Narukami really can't zone (no, Zio is not zoning) and he's more meter-dependent now. 2C should stuff Zio, and Narukami has to deal with a character who can beat him at the "my normals out range your normals" game, plus watch his Fatal Recoveries... it's still Narukami, but low-level netplay Narukami may have to learn to block and be patient. I can imagine some pretty hilarious punishes to a rolled Cross Slash. Raging Lion might be avoidable if Koromaru is significantly in front of Ken or in a mid-air move -- Narukami hits Koromaru, Ken rolls or dashes the move completely, then punishes.

There was a Kanji-Ken match during Evo that someone described as hell for Kanji ("one bad guess and you'll never get him off you"), and I'm guessing Koromaru beats Kanji's DP, so... poor Kanji. Wish I'd seen it.

Thanks, Fortune. I'm always relieved to know I'm not just guessing but actually had a reason for thinking SA was three courses. Although if Atlus isn't allowed to say anything, who knows what "fun" awaits us in console release? As far as the roster goes, other than new DLC announcements, we can't do anything but go around in circles speculating about a story unlock. We'll know as soon as the game hits Japan. There's really nothing else to say, but GameFAQs has been churning out a near-endless amount of debate on the topic if you haven't had your fill.

No, that's not what I meant at all! Oh, God. I think there's no "wrong" way when we're all trying to feel out the character; I've just heard a lot of grumbling about Koromaru being a free pass around projectiles and I'm wondering if there isn't more to these two than that. I do think you're right about him being a zoner's nightmare, though. And I'm happy we have that option. I'm kind of curious about Ken vs. Elizabeth too, actually.

During one of the Atlus streams, they stated that they "weren't allowed to talk about Score Attack." With the expanded roster, I think it's likely we'll see Score Attack courses in the same style as BB:CP, as even without DLC characters, Score Attack would go from 13 opponents to 19 (Yukari, Junpei, Sho, Minazuki, Rise, and Ken... and with the possibility of a story unlock alone, that's 20). And that's sadistic even by ASW standards, particularly if the "clear SA with each character" rule returns. My guess is we get three SA courses and trophies for score upon completion and for completing all three courses. (If it's "fight the full roster," we'd better be able to unlock Unlimiteds.) My guess is solely a guess, however. I suspect part of the reason SA is under wraps is because of the identity of the final opponent (I have a hunch it's the final boss of story mode, which would explain "no talking about SA"). And since Golden Arcade mode looks like P4A's version of the Abyss, who knows what we'll be able to unlock with in-game currency and levels. Of course, it's likely all unlocks will be available for actual money, as it would be unprecedented if that weren't the case.

Thanks, Strife!

If we're online at the same time, send me an invite and I can run through it with you.

Great catch, thanks! I usually post off my iPad, so I can't review the MadCatz stream (or any other) while doing so. I'll add that to the notes. Yeah, I was wondering what the timing on Koromaru's moves is like when combined with That Goddamn DP. This is meaningless theory fighting, but, say: input 236C/D and hit Koromaru start-up frames, then immediately punch DP > DP Part 1 > Ken flies away > Koromaru active frames; opponent forced to deal with three-strike move > DP Part 2. I'm guessing it wouldn't work. Why? Because I think ASW was afraid of the Zappa comparisons and decided "Okay, so let's give him this flashy-ass move that's a suicide ticket and hope people use it despite the obvious problems. BALANCE COMPLETE!" The thing I find interesting about his DP is the fact that it gets him from corner pressure to having knocked the opponent back further than midscreen, so it's ... a game-breakingly good reversal if you ever land it, but otherwise useless. I think we're in more agreement than it appears. In the case of an even trade -- a single-hit projectile vs. Koromaru -- then letting Koromaru take a hit so that Ken can poke and/or get in is an absolutely valid strategy and probably what ASW intended. But I don't think blowing all of Koromaru's health just eating projectiles is good play, as once Ken is in, a lot of his moves need that support from Koromaru to either cover the recovery frames or put down serious pressure. So sending a Koro-ball into Rise's multi-hit disc or any bullet move from Aigis strikes me as poor planning, as once Koromaru gets hit, if Ken isn't blocking he's open to the next hit or projectile, Koromaru's health just went down while Ken's in hitstun, and neither half of the team can do anything until hitstun decays -- that's what I meant when I said that I don't think Koromaru's most important role is to eat projectiles. Just like Shadow Labrys can tell her persona to block, I think we're supposed to desummon Koromaru at times to keep him from being taken out by projectiles. The fact that Koromaru's reappearance works the way it does leaves me wondering as well. More theory fighting: if Ken's under pressure and the opponent goes for a frame trap, wouldn't the tag-in blow up a typical frame trap? If Ken's blocking in the corner and I'm Aigis ... let's say that Ken has blocked for a bit and Aigis decides to go for a frame trap with 5A > 2A > [throw/low/mid/overhead/jump back to punish mashing]. If Ken resummons Koromaru around the 5A > 2A (because this is an obvious set-up by Aigis, his normals aren't fast enough to mash out, his DP isn't an option, and he doesn't want to play the guessing game), wouldn't Koromaru potentially hit Aigis right out of pressure? It seems like the opponent has to be standing and not blocking, but one of two things should happen: Koromaru hits the opponent or Koromaru eats the opponent's next hit; regardless, Ken gets out of the corner. I'm certain I saw several players successfully attempt tagging in Koromaru in order to blow up certain blockstrings; I just don't know how solid those blockstrings were.

Do you want to take over creating the room tonight or should I try the first one and we'll go from there? I'm about to add Baconzero, so I still have the master list of everyone who wants in, but I can invite from your room. (Just invite me and I'll send the rest of the invites out.)

Great "sent from." I lol'd. And, hey, you gave us plenty! I think we have enough info to start making some educated guesses about Ken's gameplay. I did a tl;dr post in the news thread but I'd love to get an actual discussion going. So: lots of complaints about Koromaru eating projectiles but my read is that using Koromaru to take hits is actually a bad idea (unless it's something clean like "let Koromaru eat this one projectile so Ken can immediately get in"). Without Koromaru to cover recovery or add hitstun, I think Ken may be pretty weak, which is going to make smart use of Koromaru paramount. I noticed that Koromaru's normals tended to do about 560-600 damage (no idea what the command and SB ones are like), which is also worth discussing. Ken's moves do a good amount of damage but I suspect those added hits from Koromaru are going to be key for adding threatening damage and, more importantly, hitstun. On a totally unrelated note, while many old and new characters have status ailments, Ken is one of the few who doesn't. (Maybe shock is possible with SB Thunder Reign?) It's not necessarily something he needs, but I found it interesting. I can't shake the feeling that he's going to be quite a bit like Labrys (but without damage loss on defence) -- he seems like a character that's going to require you to have both MU knowledge and good fundamentals. His range makes me think he'll excel at whiff punishment, and I think he'll be able to play legit footsies and make certain opponents regret pushing buttons. Nothing fancy in his high-low game, but I don't think that's the point. Once he safely gets in, I think it's going to be about using Koromaru in conjunction with Ken to do serious pressure and to obscure Ken's movements. (Block the dog, miss the sweep, etc.) His DP isn't as bad as I'd feared, although it still looks terrible. The upshot is the fact that he can go from being pressured in the corner to knocking opponents to midscreen and then some (seems like the second hit knocks opponents back). Of course, as soon as everyone learns exactly where Ken lands with that DP, it's back to being awful. (But no Fatal Recovery, thank God.) There must be set-ups that allow for DP (first hit) > Koromaru intercept while Ken is off-screen > DP second hit. ... right? It's flashy as hell but, honestly, I think DPing with Ken is a huge gamble. But I wonder about it's escape potential if an opponent has already committed to something, as going off-screen is certainly a stylish way to force a whiff. The start-up seems pretty fast but we'll need the frame data. I'm also anxious to test j.B going through supers and a DP for a counter hit. Is his j.B going to be that godlike or was it a case of "the attack hit Koromaru, not Ken"?

That sucks, heavy. You'll be missed. Standard 9PM EST room tonight. Come one, come all. If AnneIFrank and Colpevole show up, everyone needs to put on autopass, since the goal is "watch and learn" before they bounce.

First post has been updated so that everything we know about Ken is now in one place! Massive thanks again to Sharakonta, Dopples, 9:02 AM, Monokeros, and Pen_Ninja. You guys did the actual work here. :D

Sure, we could have a Skype group. I need to add my account to my profile anyway.

I'm still listed despite withdrawing, just as a heads-up. Don't want to create bracket confusion down the road.

So now we have to spend money to learn another MU? Well, that was inevitable.

Great games to everyone in the Evo Hangover lobby last night! Special thanks to AnneIFrank and Colpevole for dropping by and spamming us with great play and info. :D

This is everything I compiled, pre-thread, on Ken. Includes credits, video links, and a link to the Tweet with the screenshot of his movelist. Health: 9500 [Calculated by mixedmethods during stream matches but not officially confirmed.] Playstyle: Quasi-puppet. Title: The Pretentious Tenderfoot Duo. Personas: Kala-Nemi (Ken), Cerberus (Koromaru). (Note that they share one set of cards.) Persona Cards: 2. Arcana: Justice (assumed, someone confirm?). Origin: Persona 3 (SEES members). Movelist (screenshot from Evo): https://mobile.twitter.com/HellfireCO/status/487642431379079169/photo/1 Known Unknowns Ability to jump-cancel and hop-cancel normals on hit or block. Practicality of super-canceling from first hit of DP. Exact damage of Koromaru moves (500-600 seen in play). Exact damage of Ken's moves. Quite a bit else. Normal Moves Vile Assault/Furious Action/BD: The rising off-screen spear move. Hits twice. Ken goes off-screen into the air for a very long time, making whiff punishes easy. Does 1050 damage if both hits connect (non-Awakened opponent). j.2B: Command move that spikes Ken down. Useful for air-to-air confirms into combos. 5A: Standard jab. 2A: Standard low jab. 5B: Standing spear move. When whiffed, a follow-up overhead move occurs. Can be used to bait whiffs but very unsafe if not gatlinged. Second hit can be cancelled to 2B to bait jump-ins. 2B: Two-hitting anti-air attack with great horizontal range. First hit is a low and air-blockable; second hit is mid and AUB. Can be baited and punished by some characters. 2AB: Sweep. Hop-cancelable. j.A: Multi-hit jump attack, similar to Aigis's j.A. Can be used similarly to Mitsuru's falling j.A. j.B: Wide-ranging jump attack, similar to Labrys's j.B. Can be followed with j.2B into a combo. Cannot be used as an instant overhead. Possible to cross up the opponent. 236A/B (Charge Thrust): The giant spear attack. Pulls opponent in on hit. Safe on block with persona follow-up. Will trade with multi-hit projectiles and can be jumped on reaction. No dead zone. Start-up is slow enough to make using this raw a poor idea. Has a follow-up persona attack. Gigantic Impact (A/B or AB after Charge Thrust): Follow-up persona attack to Charge Thrust. AoA: Universal overhead. Ken places his spear upright on the ground and appears to vault over. Fatal Recovery. CD/j.CD: Universal throw. Possible to combo after ground throw. 214A/B/AB: Mediarama. Heals Ken and Koromaru a set amount. Fast start-up, long recovery. If hit during recovery, Ken will lose a persona card. Likely baitable if the opponent is watching Koromaru's meter, as with Aigis's Orgia mode changes. Koromaru Commands Regardless of whether they appear to be overheads or lows, all of Koromaru's attacks are considered mid strikes and can be blocked high or low. 5D: Removes Koromaru from the field. Koromaru will slowly regenerate health when densummoned. 5D (resummon): Koromaru reappears from Ken's side of the screen, doing a diagonal jump-in. Again: does not hit high. 5/6C: Koromaru jumps into the air, moves forward a set distance, and attacks. If opponent throws a projectile, Koromaru will take the hit before moving back toward Ken. This can cover Ken's approach or be used in pressure. Can be followed up on counter hit. j.C: Same as the above, but allows you to input the attack airborne. 2C: Koromaru runs forward and performs an upward knife slash. Can low profile some projectiles (such as Yukiko's fans) and convert into a combo. Useful for repositioning Koromaru for left-right mix-ups or crossups. Knocks opponent OTG. 236C/D: After start-up, Koromaru performs three forward slashes, each one moving him slightly further away from the move's starting point. Allows Ken to lock the opponent down on block. 214C/D: Koromaru jumps into the air and spins slowly, acting as a constant hitbox. Useful for lockdown pressure after a combo. *Both 236C/D and 214C/D can be inputted while Ken is midair. If Koromaru is hit, he will halt his attack, return to ground, and return to Ken. If Ken is hit, Koromaru will also be knocked down and remain knocked down until Ken leaves hitstun. In blockstun, Ken can continue to input Koromaru commands. Supers Thunder Reign (236236A/B/AB): Ken spins his spear and creates a giant disc of green lightening. Unknown what, if any, invuln it has. Very unsafe on whiff. Outside of Awakening, Ken's best damage super. Persona attack. Possible Fatal Recovery (unconfirmed, spotted by mixedmethods during Evo stream). Fire Breath (236236C/D/CD): The super ending to his auto-combo. Sends a giant hitbox of flames out in front of Koromaru, not Ken. Possible to use this as a sneaky punish if you've positioned Koromaru appropriately. Can be used mid-combo after j.2B. Quick start-up, but can be superjumped if thrown out raw at max range. Persona move. Requires Koromaru. 214214A/B/AB: Awakening super. Ken performs an upward slash that launches the opponent for further damage. Confirmed to have some invuln and can be cancelled into after the first hit of Ken's Furious Action, but is very punishable on whiff. If Koromaru is not on the field when this super is used, its damage is lowered significantly. With Koromaru, this super does 3050 to a non-Awakened opponent (unknown whether A or B version, but was not skill boost). Need to be fairly close to opponent to make this hit. Possible reversal. Not a persona move. Instant Kill: Ken and Koromaru surround the opponent with Hama (Ken) and Mudo (Koromaru) spells, instantly killing them. Looks flashy, but we don't know anything else. Credit for moves, their descriptions, and properties goes to Dopples, whose paste-bin notes were the primary source for this guide; 9:02 AM for additional information in the news thread; HellfireCO for tweeting a shot of Ken's movelist; and everyone who played Ken at Evo. Videos http://youtu.be/d1_biodvIXg CPU-Ken vs. Yu Namba playing Rise from UltraChen. http://youtu.be/r5V5WPox-Qo Ken vs. Sho, from Atlus's June stream. Shows Ken's 5A and 5B. http://youtu.be/1Na6WO2BMqE Ken vs. Minazuki (late June, English). http://youtu.be/_L26nSNFYwk Ken's IK in action. Evo footage. http://www.twitch.tv/madcatz/b/547061949?t=2h55m10s P4AU Evo tournament, featuring Ho-chan's Rise and several appearances by Ken. Links to the stream archive on MadCatz's channel. Regarding the 2B baiting: Doodles is another Aigis main, and Aigis's Orgia backdash will allow her to bait Ken's 2B and punish it easily thanks to Orgia backdash being airborne, having invuln, and the fact that Aigis becomes a giant PITA in Orgia. I would think Yosuke's speed might let him glide-block the first hit and land in time to hit Ken before the second, but that's just theory-fighting on my end. Like I said in the news thread, I think smart Koromaru usage is going to wind up being key to playing Ken at a higher level, as well as getting your opponent scared of his range. Doesn't sound like using the dog strictly to eat projectiles is the best way to play; I think it's about distracting opponents and using Koromaru for added hitstun. As an aside, for those who haven't played the RPGs, here's why Ken's movelist looks the way it does (no real spoilers, but cutting because the post is long enough): [collapse]Ken's P3 persona learned Hamaon, Hama Boost, Ziodyne, Mediarama (later became the full-party heal spell), Samarecarm (revive ally with full health), and pierce-type phys moves such as Cruel Attack, Vile Assault, Primal Force, etc. (For those who didn't play the games: phys damage came in three types in Persona 3 -- strike, slash, and pierce. Kens spear was considered to deal pierce damage, along with Aigis's gun and Yukari's bow.) Unfortunately, his stat build made him a bit jack-of-all-trades type and he was overshadowed as a healer by Yukari, as a Zio user by Akihiko (who had the third-highest magic stat in the game, despite his representation in Arena), and his plot got him a lot of hate. Kala-Nemi is his evolved persona. Koromaru, on the other hand, always fought with Cerberus, and was proficient with both Mudo spells and fire attacks (which is why you need Koromaru for Fire Breath), and dealt slash damage with a kunai held in his mouth. Ken was weak to Mudo/darkness, Koromaru to Hama/light, which is why their IK is a tag-team effort. While Koromaru was fun to bring to battles due to the quotes from other allies (Aigis was a goldmine), he also had a ridiculously wonky stat build. Both Ken and Koromaru had high agility stats, however, with Koromaru maxing out at a ridiculous 80-something in that category for a clean "highest in the game" award), which probably has nothing to do why Ken's run speed is fast, but it's interesting trivia nonetheless. I'd say the majority of players didn't use Ken and Koromaru much in combat due to the fact that they were outclassed in their respective strengths by someone else, but a sizable number used a party of Ken, Koromaru, and Aigis as their core team once all three joined. Ken was also famous for wearing shorts, but he's now wearing the Gekkokaun uniform sported by the rest of the P3 cast, and the yellow armband signifies he's a member of student council. (The SEES team had red armbands.) Snazzy! Over the course of P3, Ken became something of a younger brother to Akihiko, whereas Koromaru and Aigis had many hilarious (and funny-but-also-sad) side conversations, as Aigis was able to understand Koromaru's thoughts. Which included Aigis telling you that Koromaru wanted to go to the movies, and if you want to know what happens next, play the game.[/collapse]

I'm awaiting mod clarification on whether or not to put all my notes (now need to add yours, Pen_Ninja into the opening post or just dump them in the thread. Thank you for the banner! Adding it ASAP!

Welcome to the Ken & Koromaru discussion thread! All gameplay-related posts for "a boy and his dog" belong here. Be polite, stay on topic, and follow site rules. Combo and video threads will be opened after the Japanese console release. Dustloop Ken Amada Wiki Your forum mod and Ken expert is Agito.

I've heard both and seen both in frame data. According to the Wiki frame data, 17 hits + D is always fatal, but Yosuke can get fatal with 17 hits + C, while Aigis only needs 15. And I heard Omex say AoAs are now variable by character. Don't know if this changed post-1.1.

I'll start one at 9PM EST. I do private slots to avoid random people joining. We could always start like that and add a second room if needed ... ?

Is this an AoA problem, period or is it people not knowing that the number of hits to get the fatal ender off an AoA varies by character now?

I agree with splitting. We had a full 8 last time and I was thinking splitting wouldn't be a bad idea. Of course, beginners learn more from playing higher level players, so maybe two rooms without private slots is the solution, so that people can switch rooms as they please.

Yes, and it seems to be universal (I seem to recall a Rise doing the same thing and getting her four cards back). So that's a new layer of burst usage we should thoughtfully mull over.

I have tl;dr thoughts on Ken but it basically comes down to this: I think he's going to play similar to Labrys in the sense of "not particularly flashy," but Ken doesn't have the drawback of losing momentum while on defence. He has solid normals, left-right mix-ups courtesy of Koromaru, good jump combos, and the ability to pull in opponents but no particularly jazzy supers. His range on normals means he can either go in and lock you down in pressure or hit you from optimal range to make you regret pushing whatever button you just hit. Because he doesn't have to keep momentum for damage the way Labrys does, I suspect he'll be able to dictate the pace of some matches, as once he does tag you and gets a confirm, any combo will be sufficiently damaging to make you think twice before trying that again. His DP's recovery can be covered by smart Koromaru placement, which makes Minazuki's teleports less viable (or he can skip the DP and just hit Minazuki as soon as he lands). Since he can use Koromaru to cover his approach, Ken gets to test the waters before going in himself, which is a huge advantage against zoners, but throw enough projectiles out and he still has to work his way in, since Koromaru halts his approach and is knocked down on hit. I saw people using Koromaru smartly (desummoming him and then resummoning Koromaru for that air jump-in to catch opponents off guard and add enough hitstun to start a combo), which I think is going to be key. He's not really a puppet character the way Shadow Labrys is, as Koromaru does relatively minor damage but can cause knockdown, so using Koromaru just to eat projectiles weakens Ken's options. It's also not necessary to use Koromaru like that, as Ken has (seemingly) decent options on defence and can go for either a wake-up/reversal super or poke out of pressure with 5A or 2A, which seem to be relatively fast compared to his spear moves. If he does land a hit, a confirm into an AoA is an easy 2k, likely much more if the combo doesn't drop. (I'm looking at the lone YouTube video right now, so while I saw some good combos in stream, I can't pull them up for reference.) Koromaru covers the start-up and recovery on Ken's normals and (if used smartly) can trick opponents into watching the wrong half of the team. (Or into attacking Koromaru, which gives Ken all the time he needs to land a hit and convert into a combo.) Whiffs are going to be bad, bad news for him and I think he's going to have to be played somewhat patiently in certain MUs. Against rushdown types, I think he'll do very well due to his ability to tag opponents on approach, pull them in for hits, and then push them back out. Gaining momentum as a rushdown character is going to be tricky against Ken, at least until we all adjust to him, because his primary threat is his range. A bread-and-butter AoA combo should be an easy 3k, maybe more. His DP is insanely damaging at 1050, so optimal use of that sets up a nice, quick combo into an easy 2k (at least), and his reach on spear moves makes it easy for him to fish for counter hits and fatal hit starters. His range makes mashing very painful and set play much more difficult, as staying out of his range means putting yourself near the corner (and it looks like he can get ridiculous damage off a corner AoA into jumps and air Fire Breath super), which means you're going to have to choose between trying to fully zone Ken out (good luck), going in on him (... good luck), or playing footsies, and Ken has Koromaru for those. It seems to me that it goes both ways: if Ken screws up, he's going to really regret it, as whiff punishes are going to hurt; on the other hand, certain opponents are going to have to be much more cautious due to the fact that Ken can let Koromaru take some hits to give himself a nice fatal starter. In MUs where he needs to lock high-damage opponents down, figuring out his block strings is going to be crucial to playing him well, along with knowing which MUs make going for the AoA a terrible idea, since that's Ken's Fatal Recovery and it has some significant start-up. His 2B and j.B are supposed to be very good (think Labrys in terms of range ... ouch), j.A is multi-hit (think Aigis), and it's possible he may be able to do an instant overhead off j.B (similar to Mitsuru). What I didn't see was anyone trying much in the way of high-low mixups with Ken due to "omg how does the DOG work," but I think he's got a solid toolset and is essentially going to be a threat at range before converting into a combo and either staying in for mixup and more damage or forcing you to come to him. There's just no pizazz as with Rise, but so far, he looks good. God-tier ... I seriously doubt it, but I didn't catch any Ken-Narukami, Ken-Aigis, or Ken-Yosuke footage. (I did see Ken-Mitsuru but it was high-level Mitsuru versus "how do I dog" Ken, so who knows how that MU will play out.) It seems like his normals do a surprisingly high amount of damage, probably to compensate for the fact that Ken doesn't have a conventional 5C or 5D, but I don't know how they trade with the rest of the casts' moves. It does seem like he's going to force people to be very protective of their personas, however, as he's learned something from Mitsuru -- he's very good at destroying cards. And on that note, the fact that Ken himself isn't persona reliant is also a plus, as the recovery on the cards means that should he actually be in persona break, he's not likely to be in a situation where he dies before he regains his burst. Or maybe you just don't want to play a persona-heavy character. I think he's ... interesting. I don't think he's going to be god-tier, at least not right now, but I'm not sure what we're going to learn next. It's likely he has a lot of untapped potential -- in a lot of matches, spear > pull in worked great because no one is used to responding to it yet, but as new tech is developed, I think Ken is going to have to condition opponents to respect his range and what happens if they try to rush him, which ... well, most people were just abruptly taking a hit from Ken because it's unclear what his optimal range is vs. various opponents, so as soon as someone crossed the giant "YOU ARE NOW OPEN TO A B ATTACK" line, they got hit. It's unlikely that's going to work forever. I think Ken's going to end up keeping a lot of characters honest due to his ability to punish from a distance, and I think he's going to annoy Narukami to no end (yay!), but whether he'll excel at playing patient and punishing mistakes, locking people down at a safe distance with pressure, or landing really painful combos ... he may well be able to do all three. Personally, I'm excited to see what he can do beyond the basics, but I suspect he's never going to be particularly exciting compared to people like Minazuki, Rise, and Yosuke. Blocking and knowing when it's safe to get out of pressure is going to be crucial for Ken, along with saving Koromaru for moments when you need to throw off your opponent's rhythm with a surprise Koromaru summon. I think there's untapped potential with Koromaru, frankly. But we'll see.