mixedmethods

Welcome! I saw your intro post. We're in different time zones but I'm new to FGs, period, so I'll add you. Maybe we can spar? I have no real Yukari experience, so I'd love to learn the MU!

Most definitely! 9PM EST, as per. IK FIGHT NIGHT.

This is a start. Ken: Koromaru has no hurtbox; damage is doubled; Mediarama heals for approximately ten times its normal variant (Mediarama A = 1000 HP, Mediarama B = 2000). Shadow Labrys: Axe attacks do twice as much damage, bull is faster, ??? (boss characters can't be used in training and people die too quickly). I'm fairly certain everyone has a damage multiplier in addition to character-specific buffs. Aigis has permanent Orgia and 999 ammo along with increased damage. Goddess Shield hit for over 4k instead of 2000 when I tested with a friend last night. The returning characters have their P4A Score Attack buffs; it's the new characters that are a mystery. Score Attack Minazuki inflicts three ailments at once off one of his supers and one becomes an unblockable, if I remember correctly, but I can't confirm because I haven't unlocked him. Clearing an Arcade route with every character, on any difficulty, is required for a trophy, but if you clear everyone's on Risky, you can nab the boss characters while you're at it. The Risky Acade courses are easy -- 5A mash is enough -- and mostly Shadow opponents. You can use continues. For speed, just set the number of rounds to one. If you think you can win the DPS race, set the round time to 30 seconds.

Yeah, I know there's some trade-off in the B versions -- invuln? start-up vs. recovery? pre- and post- flash numbers? -- but I can't nail it down. Recovery feels slower on Thunder B, but I can't say by how much. Same story with Fire Breath D, but recovery on that move is odd in general since you can have Ken in one corner and Koromaru in the other... bad dog.

Damage numbers are up. Nothing earth shattering, but they're there now. Ultimate Cross is basically a faster Cross Slash, right down to the cancel options (OMC on block only).

Frame data added! You're a hero to your men and, uh, woman. 7f explains why 214214x was catching backdashes... and 236236x being 7f feels right, but, Jesus, that's almost too good. So now we know why it's FR. God help anyone who mistimes a safe-jump against Ken ... Thunder Reign may be a very high-risk/high-reward option. Katana Jesus help you if you get baited, though.

Yeah, I checked the notes I posted for my damage test on his supers -- the only way I got all hits on SB was by having Koromaru's head between Yosuke's legs, so, yeah, you need Koromaru to be overlapping the opponent at the move's start, and no one is going to let you walk up and super them. I remember going crazy trying to confirm how many hits D had... and I was still wrong! Stupid kid and his meddling dog.... I can think of possible options for "Koromaru move to position > super for crazy damage" but I need to lab them to see if it's possible to buffer the super during a Koro special and keep the opponent from teching in time to roll, guard, etc. Might be possible to add the super for damage to long-range conversions or use it as an option for combos that make it difficult for Thunder Reign to hit. (Is it me or does that thing have a funky hitbox?) Or if you don't want to take the risk on Thunder Reign, because, ouch, Fatal.

I'll update the wiki, then. I tested D version several times but maxed at six hits. Must have forgotten to check after I figured out the optimal positioning. I know 9:02 AM mentioned preliminary calculations for his supers but has anyone found the numbers? He has some crazy-fast supers, and if you OMC on hit, you can do some ridiculous things. As an aside, Thunder Reign and Fire Breath can both be batted back by Junpei. ETA: Wiki now updated. Wonder what the landing recovery for air versions is. (There has to be some, unless we're P4A Shabrys....)

Mediarama: A heals Ken ~100HP, B ~200HP, SB is speed of A with regen of B. Possible to confirm numbers via prior tests with boss mode Ken? (Boss mode = 2000HP with Mediarama B, so assuming a stable multiplier...)

Thanks so much, VR-Raiden. That's even better! I'm going to add a to-do list to the opening post so that if anyone wants a particular task, I can note it.

That DP war was hilarious. 6k blue health! So many IKs, so much lulz. Bull-kun is always ready to snack on jumpers. Aww.

This one is going to be tricky. I played against Ken as Shabrys, and after doing some testing in the lab, here's the good news/bad news, with the bad news first: * Her sandwich oki beats your sandwich oki, her meterless damage beats your damage, your j.Bs and j.2Bs have the same startup, her 2B Fatal Counters, she can destroy Koromaru faster than you can break her persona, and there's still more -- her airdash beats your airdash and her DP will go straight through your AoA due to the fact that it has guardpoint for the full duration, and if she's in Awakening and has the meter, she can end the match by super-canceling her DP into Brutal Impact. * For reference, all of the following will damage Koromaru: Flame of Hades (lasers!); 5C/Knuckle Train; 2A, 5A(AA); Guillotine Axe and Guillotine Aerial; sweep; 2C (Hammer Uppercut, formerly 8C); 8C (Terra's Eruption, formerly 2C); Buffalo Hammer; Challenge Authority super; Titanomachia (inputs and finisher). If Koromaru is idle at your feet, her ground command grab will only catch Ken (cold comfort); her new anti-air grab will whiff if only Koromaru is airborne and inside its hitbox. (It will catch Ken, of course.) * As Ken, you need to manage both puppets -- Asterius and Koromaru -- if you want to survive. That statement probably deserves a sub-list of its own... * You need to know the bull's animations to win this one. (Ground grab: bull is almost completely underground, save its horns; 2C: bull is completely underground, etc.) 2C is not something you want to get hit with, but it's also how Shabrys will force you to make a play and begin her offence. Be very aware of what the Shabrys herself likes doing after 2C -- and remember to move, but not into the corner. Because of Ken's reach on normals, you may be able to successfully hit her after the 2C command, lulling you into a false sense of security as the bull reappears from underground and punches you for not walking forward or jumping. Make sure that Koromaru is put into motion as well; 2C will catch Koromaru in his idle state. * At close to mid-range, you can often snipe Shabrys out of Asterius startup with 5C and 2C, particularly if you've sent Koromaru out ahead of you with repeated 5C/2Cs to keep him from returning to you. At match start, you may want to risk Koromaru's health by sending him out right away: your puppet normals are faster than hers, particularly once Koromaru is point-blank, so abuse this to keep her from starting her game. If she takes to the air, 214CD (i.e., the SB version) will hit her during jump startup or force her to block -- this is going to be one of your best ways of disabling her abuse of certain persona moves as well as trying to keep her grounded. (Once Shabrys blocks, Asterius stops performing commands unless already underground or if Titanomachia is active. If Shabrys is hit while the bull has been given a command, you take a card.) * Returning to 214C/D: 214 (particularly the SB version) is good for discouraging jumping and for covering your approach but it can be punished if you become predictable and/or don't space it properly. You can catch Shabrys jumping (and take away a card if she went for 8C) with Ken's [dash] 5B, Charge Thrust, or j.B, depending on your position, which gives you more options on hit because Koromaru isn't committed. Koromaru's 2C, 5C, and 236C/D are also options but require Koromaru to be close enough to land the attack before Shabrys is off the ground and out of range. Long story short, 214C/D is a vital tool that allows you to stop some of her more obnoxious tricks and to force her to play the ground game, as well as compensate for your lack of a reliable anti-air, but remember that it isn't your only one or you'll eat 8C into a combo for your mistake. * Titanomachia: first, don't burst. Secondly, watch the input counter above her meter. The minimum is one, the max is four, as the counter includes the full-screen finisher in its count. If you can't hit Shabrys (or force her to tech a throw) to end Titano, you must get Koromaru out of there before the counter drops to one. The flames will take out his health bar even if you block the entire Titano sequence, leaving you with weaker options after Titano ends. Titanomachia is much faster now, allowing the bull to hit you into the finish without a Fatal. * Watch her meter during Titano: if she spent 50 on Titano and another 50 disappears, it means Brutal Impact is coming. If you burst Titano, you will most likely land right into Brutal Impact. 5D/2D to keep Koromaru safe, block the axe. Brutal Impact is incredibly punishable on block or, if you feel brave/Shabrys times it poorly, whiff, so hit her with your best Fatal combo to end the round. * If Shabrys activates Titano in the air, she has landing recovery and cannot block during her descent. You can punish her any way you like for bad activations -- if you're close, use your best starter into damage or oki; at further ranges, 236AB into whatever your meter and position allows is your best bet. If you see an Awakened Shabrys trying to create space in order to start Titano, harass her -- Ken can make two-thirds of the screen uninhabitable, and pressing that advantage is crucial. If you can't convert into a combo, hitting her with 2C and 5C (even while Ken is across screen) may be silly but it's valid. She cannot activate Titano (or burst) if the bull is committed, so keep pestering her whenever you see she has her burst or if the bull is idle. Ken and Koromaru are capable of taking away one of her strongest tools -- always press that advantage. * For Ken, midscreen is the most favourable position, in my opinion. Your goal is to close in on Shabrys and quickly put her into your own left-right game, leaving her unable to block (removing the threat of the bull), DP, or mash out. Safe-jump and bait her DP, particularly by crossing it up, then put her right back in your left-right game. If you do put her in the corner, watch what she's doing as best you can while Koromaru is between you. If she attempts to jump out of corner pressure or switches to standing block, make sure you can see the bull; it's possible for her to activate her [2]8C/D anti-air grab, so don't jump. (It whiffs if you remain grounded and does not hit Koromaru, either airborne or grounded.) If she reads your jump, she may be able to land the grab -- I'm testing this further -- so be aware of her options when pressuring her in the corner, as all it takes is one hit from Asterius to reverse the situation. * If she's the one pressuring you: once her pressure game begins, you have poor escape options. 5D/2D Koromaru to keep him safe, as she and Asterius can pummel him while you block. Her pressure is as relentless as yours -- she may have slower start-up on bull commands, but she can cancel bull specials into bull specials on whiff or block for as long as she pleases. Be very careful about when to burst; if you try for a defensive burst, she can step back or block to force a whiffed burst, then punish. Don't burst if the bull is blocking, as it's likely she's baiting in those cases. You can take a card if you burst the bull while its active, however. If you whiff a gold burst, her DP will armor through your invuln to catch you as you recover. * You can DP her DP if she's throwing it out recklessly, as you'll get an easy cross-up, but you need the correct read and a burst in case of failure, but that's needlessly risky; block it or roll it for an easy, damaging punish. * Your j.A is two frames faster than her j.A, and your hitbox is much bigger. She can use j.A to cross up or confirm into big damage, so don't be afraid to poke her air-to-air or meet her jump with one of your own. As with Labrys, be wary of her j.B and j.BB/j.2B -- hers are faster than Labrys's; in fact, you have the same start up. j.A is good for keeping distance while also meeting her jump, allowing you to poke her and force her back down to the ground. * Do not attempt Mediarama unless Shabrys is knocked down. Her new Chain Knuckle will either hit you out of the move or get her a counter starter, and she can do even more damage via Asterius, so stay calm and don't risk anything. * She can use her non-Awakening super Challenge Authority (the TV punch) in the air at the risk of landing recovery. It has an enormous hitbox, so when in doubt, assume you're not in the clear. It starts from the bull's position, not hers, so you can force it to whiff if the Shabrys isn't paying attention to Asterius's position... or she can use that fact to punish you if you're the one not paying attention and she has the meter. The C version is punishable if you block it or she uses it point blank; the D and SB versions are not. You can hit the bull with a super, but Shabrys herself is invuln through the start-up and active frames. * Like Ken, she doesn't have many ways to keep you blocking low. However, you won't be able to punish her B and SB Guillotines unless you IB the hit and she isn't being covered by the bull. Her fastest normals are 7f (5A and 2A), so with IB, Ken's 8f 5A becomes 5f, but you expose yourself to a huge amount of risk if you hit a button and whiff. * Her 5A is punishable if she doesn't jump-cancel it and her 5AAA is suicide if you block it and she doesn't special cancel. It's unlikely to happen, but it's worth knowing. * Any time you hit the bull while it's blocking, it counts as a blocked hit, meaning your cancel options are the same as if you hit a blocking opponent. Since Ken can't cancel 2A into itself or into 5A, don't be reckless with your button presses. * If Shabrys knocks you down, expect to be placed in the Shabrys Guessing Game: if she sets up Flame of Hades/lasers, it will be difficult to tell if she's going to go for a cross-up or opt to fake the cross-up, leading straight into high-low in any number of ways (airdash, roll, dash, all of which can lead into an empty low, Guillotine, etc.). Flame of Hades will also deny you the ability to close in on her if you're at distance and fail to react quickly; either move forward (away from the pillar at the end of lasers) ASAP or walk back to avoid the pillar entirely -- the pillar does the most hitstun/blockstun. (You can roll the lasers at some spacings, but Koromaru will be hit by them if he's on the field, and you'll probably roll into Shab's axe.) * If Shabrys is near or at Awakening, kill her as fast as you can. (And if she has a burst, expect to see her use it to enter Awakening with as much health as possible.) At this point, it's crucial you avoid being hit by her DP, as if she cancels it into Brutal Impact, you'll either die or be at magic pixel status, GG, etc. If you're also in Awakening, Ultimate Cross is your best friend, particularly the SB version, as Asterius is vulnerable to supers while in Titano and Ultimate Cross is incredibly fast, allowing you to hit Shabrys out of an attempted jump-in or mix-up, in or out of Titano. * Her ground command grab is capable of adding status effects. You can use Koromaru to try to get them off, but poison is the biggest threat as it adds another 1k to her damage and she can combo off the grab into oki. (Thanks, bananaken.) * Fire Breath and Thunder Reign are both projectiles and, except for the C version of Fire Breath, multi-hit moves, so be wary of using supers against the bull. If Asterius blocks, projectiles are free meter for Shabrys, and you do not want to give that to her. Air Fire Breath is potentially useful for halting her approach or punishing, but because C is a single hit, Shabrys herself can roll the projectile and punish if you don't have the extra meter to OMC. Fire Breath is essentially your answer to Flame of Hades, but it costs 50 meter while hers is free (or she can use the SB version for 25). However, it's an option if there's space between you and you need to deny that part of the stage to her. You may be able to halt her momentum with the D or SB versions, since they're multi-hit, but that requires more testing. * While she can't burst while persona broken, she can still hit hard, and a good Shabrys player will know persona-break combos, both in and out of Awakening. If she has meter and is in Awakening, she can still use Brutal Impact, so don't get impatient (and slaughtered) just because Asterius is gone. Because many people are unfamiliar with Shabrys, you will be at a heavy disadvantage if you don't know the MU, hence the notes. (Of course, Ken is new as well, so exploit that fact if the player doesn't know how to fight you.) It can feel like a boss-mode mirror match at times, as Shabrys has the ability to have her puppet block without losing momentum, nevermind her ridiculous damage and corner pressure. Just like Ken, she's a bully, so your goal is to win the playground war, take her lunch money, and send her home crying. Until she hits Awakening, it's a relatively straightforward fight if you're able to lock her out of her game and keep her trapped midscreen. Be more cautious if you put her in the corner, as she can use multiple persona moves to blow up your pressure, and you really don't want to be hit by that anti-air grab. Once she's in Awakening, you'll need to adjust as the situation demands: if she has full meter and you feel lucky, let her burn some of it on Titano, then interrupt it. If you have her pinned and she's without burst when she enters Awakening, then the MU is much easier, as you can focus on killing her off ASAP, preferably before she returns to neutral and enters Awakening. Both of you have relatively low health, so one Titano or a single Brutal Impact can erase all your hard work -- be very mindful of her meter. Don't be wary of spending yours, either: EX moves are a godsend in this MU, particularly if you can Shock her with Gigantic Impact SB or Thunder Reign SB, and EX Koromaru specials allow you to keep your pressure safer and faster. I feel like the MU is slightly in Shabrys's favour, as she has more options while being pressured in the corner and Titano, while less "scammy," is still able to turn a round around suddenly. However, your pressure game is more flexible than hers in some respects, and Ken is more than capable of stopping her from dominating by harassing her at range or up-close (or doing both simultaneously). It's a fight that can go to either side very quickly, then just as easily flip once she enters Awakening.

From the Skype group: if he's fully buffed and you've been inflicted with fear, save your burst if it's not the winning round (for him) and/or he lacks meter. Adachi is most damaging with buffs and meter, so you need to decide whether or not you can contest the round and whether it's worth spending your best resource. If you force him into another round, he'll have to apply buffs again. Burst carefully against him, as most of his persona attacks are unburstable. Make sure to hit him in recovery to take a card and gain momentum.

I CAN RAPID-FIRE TITANO AGAIN WOOHOO.

I was planning to hit P4A tonight, and I know Bacon's coming as well.

Welcome to the "why don't we have a shiny, info-packed page like Narukami" thread. In order to keep wiki-related posts from being buried in the gameplay thread and for ease of coordination, all discussion related to Ken's wiki page now belongs here. If you'd like to contribute to the actual editing of the page, please drop a post in here so that all editors can work together and avoid clashes. Frame data calculations, damage numbers, cancel options, and any other relevant information can be posted here so that wiki editors can easily add it to the page. If you've spotted an error, disagree with a moves's description, or have any other feedback, please post here so necessary corrections and edits can be made ASAP. Current Editors mixedmethods (primary editor) Avarspike (??) Unless someone else would like to play martyr and should we get new editors, I'll coordinate tasks. If there's a particular section you want updated, let me know; I'm doing my best to collect and migrate info, but it's a long list. Under the cut, I've broken down the various pieces of Ken's wiki and the work left to be completed. If a section is marked "done," all the relevant info has been written up and formatted, but errors may lurk and edits for ease of reading/style/clarity are welcome. If something is tagged as "reserved," it means someone else has already started work on that area and to leave it be until their text is posted, at which point you're welcome to revise it. Ken's Dustloop Wiki page. Wiki writing guide. Collapsed: Status check and to-do list: Introduction: Done! Background text will likely be edited after North American console release.Overview: Done! Normals: Format to Wiki standards. Add attribute, guard, damage values, cancel options. (May require testing.) Descriptions needed for some moves. Section isn't far from completion. (Yay!) System Commands: Add AoA and throw frame data, damage. Note Fatal Recovery on AoA, input reversals for throw. Add description, cancel, attribute, guard for DP, AoA, throw. Specials: Add confirmed frame data. Include damage. Test cancel, guard, attribute. (Damage for some Koromaru skill attacks variable based on number of hits... include max damage and note discrepancy?) Supers: Descriptions needed. *reserved by mixedmethods. (Almost complete....) All areas need edits to conform to wiki standards! Koromaru: * 2D and 5D need to be merged. * Damage, attribute, guard for commands. * Add 9:02 AM's frame data results. (Note variability due to positioning.) Strategy: Need to solicit feedback from several players before finalizing this. Tips & Tricks: Combos, safe-jump set-ups still developing. Rather than having to edit this 500 times in 10 days as new tech is found, would prefer to see info solidfy before posting it, particularly since non-regulars will read the wiki before the threads. Combos: See above. Need to separate and note "basic/challenge" combos. Hoping to keep this section from growing out of control. Images: Would be nice, waiting for American console release to panic. Full Frame Data: ... I wish we had it. Some parts of gatling table confirmed by Skype chat. I don't mind being the one to migrate and write-up info for the wiki, so corrections and data are always appreciated if you don't want to wade into wiki formatting and editing!

Rolls are invuln to everything but throws from the third frame ... at which point you're in CH state. You probably can't punish the 2f of non-strike invuln during the start of the roll, but you can certainly get a CH throw. Because rolling puts you in a Counter Hit state, most smart players won't try to use it to escape corner pressure, excepting situations in which rolling is a viable option, which is character and MU specific (opponent is committed to a move with long recovery + your character's roll distance is actually good).

The start-up on j.2B is my bad. It's 13, not 15. Transcription error from the frame data posted in the Skype chat. I'll fix that right away ... and I'll go over the text later today when I have time and brainpower. (It's 6AM; I've got nothin'.) Are there any specific spots you want cleaned up, VR-Raiden? I know Charge Thrust is non-standard (I appreciate the fact that someone was nice enough to migrate the info I compiled to the wiki, but, yeah, formatting it for the wiki is on my to-do list), but do you also want 2B and 5AAA touched up? I'm kind of at a loss on whether to provide more or less info, since we don't have frame data, and the frame advantage on 5AAA is variable.

Nice find! I'm trying to test how to avoid accidental Koromaru commands. It's basically the same issue as Shabrys: if you DP, the game often registers a 5D as part of the B+D and that creates issues. (Moreso for Ken than Shabrys, due to the resummon time on Koromaru.) AoA ~ C/D can create wonkiness as well. It may be a matter of hitting BD simultaneously (macro?) or just me whacking buttons too hard. The one time I've found "system command = system command + unintended Koromaru move" to be useful is when using CD/throw. I need to test more to get a handle on the exact timing, but I've been able to get 214C + 4CD by having the game accept the 214C and the 4CD as, more or less, 214CD ... if I add a minuscule pause in the chain. It's strange. I think we all knew 2B was going to be awful the moment our initial testers (Dopples and 9:02 AM) reported in, and by Evo, we had notes from Pen_Ninja as well. It's unfortunate, but we have amazing jumps. I did some test matches with Ken against a friend playing Minazuki and our j.A is fast enough to Fatal Minazuki right out of his teleport with ease. The other nice thing about j.A is that if you cancel it into itself, you maintain a very safe position in air-to-air situations -- j.A > j.A keeps you safe if all hits are blocked, with plenty of time to add a j.C while landing. And, of course, on confirm, you can always do j.A > j.A > djc.B > j.2B or better to close in for a combo. Still hoping we get frame data since Rise's came out, but thanks to our hardworking Skype group, we do have some numbers, and the wiki is beginning to progress.

The MU is easily in Ken's favour, just don't get grabbed. Not with your HP. Safe-jump his DP on wake-up, then teach him that using it will lead to a punish combo. You can have Koromaru take the hit in neutral to start offence with 5B > Charge Thrust (or your preferred punish, depending on distance). Watch out when at range, as the lightening will tag Koromaru while he's idle; if the Kanji isn't varying his spacing on the lightening, you can sneak in a 5C or 2C to get Koromaru running out of danger and to interrupt Kanji. Once you have him under pressure, don't let up unless it's to bait a Guard Cancel, Burst, or super. If you're under pressure, you don't have many reversal options, so be patient and spend resources if you need to. You risk being command thrown out of a roll, so I'd go for Guard Cancel instead of Guard Cancel Roll. If he's throwing his persona around recklessly, you have easy ways to break it, so always take that advantage. Because of his HP, it's going to be a long fight. If you get thrown, Kanji can end you quickly, so avoid risks and play safe until you get a good read on the player. He can't do much once you're applying pressure -- go slow until you've got him locked down, then don't let up. Desummon Koromaru if he gets lightening happy; you do not want to eat a counter grab after Mediarama. Removing Koromaru at the start of the MU is one way to deny Kanji his lightening zoning -- know your Kanji, and if you don't, safe over sorry. Gigantic Impact SB is great for crippling Kanji's mobility even further and reminding him that both of you can play the Shock card. While your airdash is fantastic, don't get reckless on approach or you'll eat a grab for your mistake. Kanji's jump arc is much weaker than yours, even if you don't use dash for added distance, so you can use that against him air-to-air.

I punished Rise DP with an empty Titanomachia for Fatal ender. Testing in the lab revealed you can add Brutal Impact to that punish to take out her lifebar. Ken and Shabrys can have their puppets take the hit by triggering the counter, then moving in for a combo. It actually seems useless against Shab, since Asterius doesn't care about projectiles, so Shab can just have the bull block and avoid chip damage by staying behind it. Personally, I'd be very careful with that DP. Right now, I think everyone's learning when it's safe to punish, and once everyone knows... whiff it and die.

Okay, nevermind. It's not that Rise's j.B is Fatal Recovery, it's that I didn't realise my character gained Fatal Counter on 2B. I thought I was losing my mind. Thanks for the boss Rise notes! (Ugh. Pun.)

Damage numbers for the wiki and my own reference, supers only. A few interesting finds. [collapse]Thunder Reign A: 2000 Thunder Reign B: 2600 Thunder Reign SB: 2600. A is insanely fast start-up, B less so, SB closer to A. Yeah, I know, really helpful. Again, all versions are Fatal Recovery. Really good for adding damage, but be careful. Fire Breath/Maragidyne/Whatever It's Officially Called Fire C: One hit, 1800 damage Fire D: Six hits, 2250 damage max Fire SB: Ten hits, 3250 damage max (no, that's not a typo) Okay, so Koromaru positioning is everything for this one, and there are probably other inconsistencies for characters with abnormal hit boxes. Long story short, it's unlikely you'll be cleanly landing all hits for the D and SB versions, as you need Koromaru to be overlapping the opponent's hurtbox when you input the move. (Might be easier on crouches; I'm off to test that but wanted to put down numbers first.) Just testing the damage on Yosuke, I needed Koromaru's head visible between Yosuke's legs to get all the hits to connect. You probably have better uses for that extra 25 meter, but if there's another way to force someone to eat all the hits or you find yourself in that situation, go for it. Real Soviet Sho-level damage. Ultimate Cross/Awakening Super Cross A: 3000 (2200) Cross B: 3450 (2400) Cross SB: 3450 (2400) Numbers in parentheses are the damage when performed without Koromaru. Technically, it's multi-hit, like Narukami's Cross Slash. The first is always 1000 damage, the second varies between A and B/SB. Since damage is identical between B and SB, I'm guessing there's some invuln (added?) on SB. If Koromaru is in play, it's a three hit move (though the game doesn't show the amount of damage from hits 2 and 3, just jumps to "3 hits" and the total damage number); if he's not, it's two. [/collapse]

It's a normal CH if you hit her before recovery frames. I tested against a friend -- anti-airing "normally" got the expected CH, but delaying the 2B slightly in order to hit after the j.B's active frames yielded consistent Fatal Counters.

Looks like her j.B is a Fatal Recovery. While messing around in online training with a friend, I got a fatal each time I anti-aired her after j.B was active. Not a Rise main, though, and someone should test and confirm. Anyone else spot this?