QSpec

I have been messing around with Dizzy, and my oki attempts don't seem to often hit meaty (they can jab out the fish since the first hit whiffs). People are also able to jump out of the pressure quite a bit. I am sure that the vast majority of it is my fault, but am I crazy in thinking her oki is actually quite tough to set-up? I should add that I have been watching quite a few Kazuki video's when I can, and even against him, plenty of people seem to be able to slip out of his oki attemps (albeit in far fewer cases than mine). I am half tempted to go to Ram or I-No because I love set play, but Dizzy's seems far from free despite being quite hard earned.

Does anyone know why they didn't balance characters with Rev? Xrd as I see it is fairly well balanced, but there seems to be a dominate top tier that could have been toned down or a bottom tier that could have seen a few buffs without really fucking anything up. There are a few character's I'd be hesitant to buff too much. Both I-no and Ram are often consider lower tier, but both of them can win the game on one hit given the correct parameters (knockdown and corner respectively), so heavy-handed buffs could wreak havoc with both of them. But others like Pot, Slayer, Bedman, Leo, and May could have used a few quality of life buffs that wouldn't necessarily do much harm. Or the flip side, there is a rough (and fluid) top tier that could have taken a few smaller nerfs that wouldn't have affected their status too much. I'm thinking some or all of Zato, Sol, Elph, Faust, and Millia mostly. I haven't played in a while (sold my PS3 and the PC version seems dead as shit, plus SFV, plus KI), so maybe I'm way off and the game is far, far more balanced (especially regarding the all important relative balance between the best characters and the worst), but it seems almost odd that they made zero changes to the Xrd characters.

Since you're a respected Bedman, I was wondering if you have changes to this tier list. Especially considering that you seem to be approaching neutral a bit differently (less air, more ground based).

How's this shaping up? Last I checked, people were super down on it. Has the situation improved?

Yeah that is helpful. A lot of my issue is simply being new and not knowing what blockstrings are true and what the relative frame data is (like what beats what). I did notice watching SonicFox in Winter Brawl 9, that he doesn't often go into seemingly infinite block strings (unlike every Carmine I fight online) which I take to mean that Carmine's blockstring is eventually vulnerable to a good read or a lucky guess? What are some common round openers for us? Round start always seems like a disadvantage for Byakuya to me.

Any vs Carmine advice?

Posted this in the wrong forum so... correcting that now I guess: Just introducing myself. I picked the game up for the NA launch. Loving the game so far though a couple of bad Chaos v Gordeau fights almost made me put the game down. I'm picking up Hilda for a while, and I'm down to play about anytime I'm on. Feel free to add me.

Well that explains it then. Now to work on converting 6C...

Two quick questions: What determines the length before the lizard pops out of the shadow in 22B? It seems like it varies. Also, what determines whether I can attack after 236A? Is it just normal canceleable or are there situations in which I can actually move after it?

Oh they are definitely still net buffs... it just seems weird to hit our damage is all.

They are nerfs that won't really be felt, I think. But did anyone anywhere ever say, "That Bedman... dealing a bit too much damage these days."?

I've been trying to learn other characters lately, and so I just recently got a few Bedman games in. I'll be honest, I'm going to miss the current start up on 6HS. At 50% meter (to make it safe if necessary), I get a huge amount of mileage out of it raw at neutral (seriously, walk up > 6HS works more than it hsould). That said, I'll take the more reliable oki cross-up, but just saying... I loved you 6HS.

Haha, this. That's why I like the idea of being able to confirm off of our 2/3HS because at least then it gives us reliable lower damage off of almost everything. Either that or give HS better reach on the second hit because our punish damage is no better than a lot of bnbs.

I don't RC except if it will kill or if I did something unsafe (get a Task B blocked for example). I'll occasionally RC on a punish if I'm swimming in meter, but we make such good use of YRC, I am loathe to use meter on anything else.

Yeah this is all definitely pointing to getting a combo out of it which I think is great. We aren't a high damage character (seriously, anyone been to the Ram forums and watched the tears that they lost their meterless ~200 damage corner loop?), but a combo out of 2/3HS allows us to effectively get ~70ish damage + oki from basically anywhere on screen which I think is the more fun way to buff us than to just give us more damage on what we currently have.

My speculation is that it knocks them toward you. I'm guessing with 2/3HS getting proration and a jump cancel that we'll be able to combo off of them with something like 3HS > 8 > 6jS. Obviously this is just a guess, but I don't see a reason to make it JC and give it proration without also giving it the ability to combo.

For mission 14, it seems like you need to input the motion right as you see Sol start to stand up. I'm not an expert by any means though. I've yet to pass it with my best only being 3 successes.

I can answer for dv.Task C. The start up on it allows it to hit people who start an approach even from full screen. DV is just slow enough that without a cancel it can be caught out from a surprising range by certain characters so DV on reaction (sans cancel) isn't always an option. I think it is a yomi thing.

This is where I'm at too. I'm comfortable with the damage I'm doing. It is more time for me to work on good Oki and MUs (seriously, I feel like I have an exception to at least one combo going into every round). I'm also trying to work on making sure I can turn stray hits into advantage. Things like an A' that hit a jumping opponent often turn into a disadvantage. Even the standard dust combo seems to put us at a disadvantage since they air tech after it, and we're often in the corner with no real answer but block (I'm trying D > 8 > jD > jD > jS > 88 > Task C... not sure if it will play out or not).

That's fair. I actually have looked at the entire list of changes. Generally speaking, I think I'm fair in saying that characters who needed buffs got them, and characters that needed nerfs also got them. So far, and this is only after a cursory glance at the changes, they seem pretty level-headed.

I don't actually play Liz, but she was initially my first choice (tied with SLab). I just didn't want to fight a low tier character while learning a new system. How do these changes look? Time to pick her up?

Thought it might be easier to see and discuss if it were its own thread? Anyway: Elizabeth Standing AAA Can only be canceled into sweep on block Untechable greatly increased By holding back, SB Mahabufudyne does not come out automatically Standing BB Normal cancel window made earlier Standing BBB Decreased startup time Does not float on ground hit Can be normal canceled into Standing D, Crouching D, and sweep Can be jump canceled Standing C When powered-up, the Persona will produce afterimages Crouching C Increased hitstop Standing D and Jumping D Increased untechable time Persona appears farther forward for Standing D Persona moves faster for Jumping D Crouching D Lowered hurtbox size Poison effect time shortened Jumping 2B Total recovery reduced All Out Attack Decreased startup time Decreased recovery Shuffle Time Decreased startup time Increased recovery Maziodyne (All versions) Persona will turn to face the opponent A version blowback adjusted and can be techable on normal hit Increased untechable time of B version Reduced Shocked time of SB version Persona can attack after performing an Awakened B or SB Version B Maziodyne (Normal) Decreased startup time A Maziodyne (Awakened) No longer wallbounces Slightly increased startup time SB Maziodyne (Awakened) Can be One More Canceled First shot causes wall bounce, second shot wallstick time reduced Mabufudyne (All Versions) Reduced recovery Persona will turn to face the opponent A version is super cancelable and One More cancelable Held SB version frame difference improved SB version now causes Fatal Counter Follow-up hit of SB and B versions connects easier when opponent is high up Increased untechable time of first hit of SB and B version Increased movement range of the SB and B version Decreased startup time for Awakened A and B version Increased the time it takes for the Persona to disappear (After hit for B and SB versions) A Mabufudyne (Normal) Increased freeze time Decreased amount of time where Persona moves are sealed SB Mabufudyne (Awakened) Increased recovery for Auto Combo version, Auto Combo version hits opponent easier Maragidyne (All Versions) Decreased startup time Awakened versions Decreased recovery time Awakened version Randomizer (All Versions) Command is now Down (charge) Up A or B Parry recovery is not Fatal Counter recovery After parry succeeds, if the attack is blocked, it loses the invincibility If the parry hits successfully, the opponent can now ground tech The parry startup timing for the A and SB versions is slightly slower A Randomizer Increased total recovery Mind Charge (All Versions) Reduced the amount of SP gained for B and SB versions SB Mind Charge Decreased total recovery Mahamaon / Mamudoon (All Versions) Decreased total recovery Does not disappear when Elizabeth blocks Persona will always appear on the ground Untechable time is no longer affected by proration Only causes a KO under certain conditions Mahamaon Greatly decreased startup time Increased untechable time After hitting the opponent, if pushed, the opponent will not stay in midair Only invincible during the superflash Mahamudoon / SB Mamudoon Reduced the window where Persona attacks cannot be used Is now unblockable Reduced the active frames When it doesn’t cause a KO, deals fixed damage When it doesn’t cause a KO, causes a wall bounce Diarahan (All Versions) Added an attack portion after the invincibility wears off Reduced the HP recovered SB Diarahan Cannot be stopped before it becomes invincible Ghastly Wail Added Fatal Recovery state Megidoloan Removed Fatal Recovery state Guard Cancel Attack Decreased startup time Increased recovery time One Handed Sword Master Can now be stocked HP Increased Certain Persona Attacks Persona is now invincible when appearing until active frames (all C attacks, A and B Maziodyne, All versions of Mabufudyne)

Sounds like it isn't a mid so much as it is a less aggressive hitbox... still useful, but less all-purpose? Depending on a few things, it sounds like a net buff. More threat from D which is already pretty awesome, and a legit reason to be afraid of scanned state sound amazing.

Not to throw fuel onto the fire, but I just finished watching the NEC15 AC+ tournament... lots of throws. (Almost?) No throw techs.

Yeah, I'm usually in the corner... so I'm guessing that's more the issue, eh?