Beowulf

Then normal jump installing the move would enable you to : 1) Forward dash on the other direction of the enemy-> FD/SB-> j.S (can hit, as you now face the opponent) 2) back dash toward the enemy-> FD/SB-> j.HS-> 5+K-> pressure/combo (can be done if not crossing) Of course, I get the hit when double crossed up, but my question was if you made the Raiei from too far.

No, I meant it doesn't double cross-up. So it makes you back dash into the face of the opponent. I meant AIR back/front dash Then, FDing your back dash would make you turn faster and you could actually hit j.HS by facing the opponent in the situation cited above ?

What, you can ? I mean when you hit the other's sprite so that you don't cross again ? Never got to make it work. But can you combo with 5+K on landing after the hit ? And I was wondering : Can you cancel a dash with FD or Slash back ?

Alright, got that answer by the top tier of this forum ^^ So that would explain why you actually only get a forward dash on stand alone raiei or after sJI'ing it on a JC'ble move before the Raiei... Also the last part make me think of this... On (normal) jump installed moves, you get an air backdash. So it sometimes is harder to make the j.HS to hit if you don't cross (needs to wait the end of the air dash animation for that...) However, he did say "(or canceling)". Does that mean there's a way to turn faster to get that j.HS hit if you don't cross ? By FD'ing/ SB'ing for example... Too tired to figure that out now... Maybe DW could use more of his "free time" for that ? ^^

then, why when you super jump install the move can't you get Axl to face the right direction ? Is it because the last motion done must be a super jump ? (as in my previous combo 5+H is the last before Raiei...)

Okay, so with Digital Watches, we are trying to discover everything about the Raieisageki S (the crossup ^^) What bothers us is about the jump installed part. There is an FRC point at the hit, so it enables Axl to do air stuffs from there, as he is in the air... Because it's a cross-up, if jump installed normally (8 after a jump cancelable move, or by adding 7 when done as a stand alone), Axl faces the wrong direction after the FRC. Thus, if you want to air dash toward the opponent, you actually do an air back dash... However, sometimes we manage to make him face the opponent, thus getting a forward air dash to get closer (and that allows Axl to combo the opponent's slide...) So we would like to know what exactly makes him face the right (or wrong) direction after the FRC. What we discovered so far is that : - Doing a stand alone Raieisageki S can lead to Axl facing the right direction by inputing 632147+S fast. - Doing the same motion after a jump cancelable move grants the same result. - Inputing 28 in a combo after a jump cancelable move (super jump install in a combo) makes Axl face the wrong direction... -> We think that it has something to do with a super jump install, as the 2...7 input done fast enough simulates a super jump. However, when done in a combo like 5+K, c.S (28), 5+HS, Raieisageki S-> FRC Axl faces the wrong direction. (I'm sure it's a super jump install, as you can't jump after the FRC but can still dash) If you could help us in any mean, that would be nice. The objective is to know HOW to make Axl face the right direction, and to EXPLAIN it... If you have/know sb with/ a programmable stick, it could come in handy...

Ok... Then the 8 theory is crap ^^ But it still works with 9, as I DO get a longer Raiei. But that must be because of the 6...9 input that makes it like a dash... Thus it is the same thing as doing 6632147+S... Man I hate that ! Why hasn't anybody done any research on that move ? I'm losing my afternoons trying to discover every tips... -> Gotta stop ^^

About meaty rashousen... Got a video up to illustrate that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzWwAWjr_sM I agree, I was a bit too enthusiastic about this move... But, doing it may help sometimes.

Found something else. A bit useless I admit but... It concerns stand alone Raieisageki S If you do the motion 632147 fast, you should see Axl doing a super back jump. That's what we commonly use in order to get a sJI Raiei... But, if you do something like 632149 fast, you should see Axl doing a super forward jump. The difference with Raiei ? Axl gets to travel a longer portion than he does with the 632147 motion... Thus, you could actually influence on the length of his jump, simply by inputting at the end of 63214 : - 7 for a short distance - 8 for a medium distance - 9 for a long distance That's for the theory... Honestly, I really gotta force myself to get the 9 one without getting 7 or 8 before... So it's there, just in case. it may have a use on okizeme though, if one can measure the perfect distance for this...

Yay ! You should have free time more often in order to do a "free time video tutorial" ^^ (you gotta get your recording device to work man ^^) Say, any games you recorded where we can see that Raiei S in action ?

Yes, sorry ^^ Lazy to read everything again Still, Faust is the only one who's low profile goes under Raieisageki S FRC. Otherwise, it's "goodu daze" ^^ EDIT : Honestly, it's high time you do your raieisageki tutorial ! It'll be easier to see on the forum...

Ok, tested a BnB combo off a Raiei S FRC : 1) Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (hit)-> Air dash-> j.HS-> 5+P (2 hits), 2+S (2 hits)-> sJ-> j.HS, j.D, Kokuugeki 2) Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (hit)-> Air dash-> j.HS-> 5+P (2 hits), 2+S (2 hits), 623+HS->623+HS (KD) Sometimes you may use 5+K or c.S instead of 5+P, it all depends on where you are after the j.HS, but 5+P always works. Special notes for Faust : - If Faust crouches, the Raieisageki S actually misses if done as an FRC. If you want to hit, you must do a RC instead. I tested, he's the only one that doesn't hit on an FRC when he crouches. - The 5+P 's second hit will miss. instead do 6+P (more damage than 5+P 1 hit and c.S) Other : If you miss-time your FRC so that it whiffs... Then do that instead : Raieisageki S (sJI)-> FRC (miss)-> Air-dash-> j.HS-> 5+K, c.S, 2+D, Rensengeki.... You can do this follow up ON REACTION after a missed FRC. Whether they crouch or not, your dash is blocked by the enemy's sprite. Just don't dash too early ^^

That's when you actually don't cross-up right ? As you need the enemy to be in the corner after the hit... So it doesn't really take account of the cross-up wake-up system. More like a fake cross-up, and considering how near you may be after your "little step backward", you need to delay the Raiei... Still, I use that too, and it's a good fake cross-up ^^ What DW wrote is true. You'd better just do j.HS-> combo or land-> 3+P-> 2+S-> combo. BTW, you don't wright in RED anymore, Sking ? ^^

Let's try to find out HOW this is made possible ! Do you know sb who has enough knowledge to answer ? Maybe shall we post the question in an other thread so people would help. Maybe even ask so with a programmable controller...

Time it later then. I often try to avoid jump attacks with 2+K, but it gets me killed really often, especially vs Chipp's j.HS (2 hits OMG !) and Sol's j.S (damn it covers my whole sprite ^^) as you get countered AND the other has time to combo your ass for huge damage ! But then again, if you fear the catch (not grab, eh ? ^^) don't time it too late neither.

It's not a tech trap I'm going to present, but more on "what to do once he has been air thrown in the corner", as it hasn't been discussed yet... I only have 3 options that use this "reverse wake up in the corner" thing : 1) Air-Throw-> land-> IAD-> Kokuugeki-> FRC-> combo -> The best opener for combo, so if you got 25% meter, try this ! -> You don't combo in the corner though, as you actually cross-up. So do a normal mid-screen air combo. ?> I wonder if in some cases you have time to pass under the character to take advantage of the corner ? 2) Air-Throw-> land-> backdash-> Raieisageki S (super jump installed)-> FRC (hit)-> Air dash toward the sliding opponent-> j.HS-> 5+P-> Air combo -> The easiest way to use this cross-up. -> You need 25% tension and it needs to be super jump installed if you want to combo behind, as the enemy is taken out of the corner... ?> I wonder if you do a blanc FRC instead, and do j.HS when landing, you get to go between the enemy and the corner... It would be better than IAD-> j.HS as you will be facing the right direction after the FRC. 3) Air-Throw-> land-> IABD-> Raieisageki S-> combo on sliding or FRC (hit)-> B-LOOP -> It's a fake cross-up. This time the enemy stays in the corner. The instant air back dash makes you get enough distance to make Axl not cross -> Thus, it's unnecessary to use 25% for the FRC as you can combo without. It's still safer though. ?> Can the IABD be timed so that you could actually use a 6632147+S for a cross-up ? (I'm too late each time I do that) Of course, the kokuugeki can be a fake cross-up too, if you time it a little late. That's all what I got... Anything else to add ? (except that only Kokuu is really necessary and useful... I remind that it's just to have some other choices, not to be too linear in your gameplay... Right DW ? ^^)

Seriously, isn't there any info we could get on that from Japaneses ? Don't tell me nobody tried to experience that ! Nothing in the last Arcadia neither ? ^^

For the burst part, I was more thinking about the enemy getting his burst during the combo, not already having it and waiting for the best moment to use it. So with 8 hits, it's really more likely he doesn't get it most of the time, whereas with 22 hits... But, after 15 hits, there's no point bursting, except if you want to prevent from being knocked down... Anyway, there's no need to discuss it, I get your idea. I never said you shouldn't do the combo because you're likely to fail it in the middle ! It's just that during my tests, I noticed that doing MR was easier than doing a BL combo. And for newbies, getting high damage with low training is always a good point ! Sure there are reversals etc... But in that case you can bait them, just as easily as you bait bursts in your combo ! Do you guarantee me that kokuu FRC-> B-loop is the best combo Axl does then ? (I'll have to try this !) Tension gain ? Yeah, I guess that's a good point for doing the combo ! And what about guard meter ? Do you gain higher damages from the combo with a fairly filled guard bar ? I think I'm gonna look to that closer... EDIT : Definitively, when the guard bar is up to +10 or more, doing the BL combo gives you WAY more damage than the MR one, as in most cases, the Rashousen hits the same amount of damage whether the guard bar is full or at 0...

I think Meaty rashou is more guarunteed than the B-loop combo. Especially because it's the SAME for every character, it can be done farther from the corner than a B-Loop and you are more likely to prevent the enemy from getting a burst, as it is only a 10 hit combo. Moreover, after that few hits (8 here) there's no possibility for the enemy to tech the slide. So it IS guarunteed, whereas bad input, wrong timing, miscalculations, stress, etc... Are really common when doing a B-loop... AND you can combo after Raieisaki S if you get it in the corner for a b-loop ending if you want... BTW, all the resluts I put were with life regain off too. And if you want to be fair, start your B-LOOP combo with j.HS, it's the best oppener I've seen so far. But, it'll become a situational combo...

I'm on it. I'll compare it to a 2 rep bomber in the corner All right, here's what I got. Tested on Potemkin (as he is the easiest to juggle with). B-LOOP : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, 2+D, Rensengeki (1 hit)-> FRC-> IAD-> j.D, Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> Rensengeki-> 2 (22 HITS) Meaty Rashousen : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, 2+D, Rensengeki (3 hits)-> FRC->Raieisageki S-> Meaty rashousen (8+2 HITS) Life of Pot | B-LOOP (BL) DMG | Meaty Rashousen (MR) DMG 128 : 197 dmg | 193 dmg 120 : 195 dmg | 193 dmg 110 : 192 dmg | 193 dmg 100 : 191 dmg | 190 dmg 90 : 184 dmg | 188 dmg 80 : 177 dmg | 179 dmg 70 : 166 dmg | 168 dmg 60 : 152 dmg | 159 dmg 50 : 137 dmg | 134 dmg 40 : 115 dmg | 119 dmg 30 : DIES at the end of the 2 | DIES after rashousen 25 : DIES after 15 hits | DIES after rashousen 20 : DIES after 10 hits | DIES after rashousen 15 : DIES after 7 hits | DIES after 8 hits Less : Dies after rensen FRC... Overall, they both do quite the same amount of damage. With a full life Pot, BL does more damage than MR, and it's even true on less resistant caracter (you get 10 dmg more on SOL with BL for example). When Pot is short on life, MR seems to be a more stable way to score big damage. Finally, as MR is easier to do than BL, and MR can be done on every characters and about at the middle of the stage, I suppose MR should be prefered. This is nothing more than figures, and everyone may do whatever he wants with it (I prefer doing BL, as it is more stylish !). But this shows how MR is too much neglected, whereas it does a lot of damage. BTW, MR doesn't work on Jam, except if she is cornered, and if you don't score the 2+D, just skip directly to Rensen.

Yup, it's not timed well in the video. But you got the idea ^^ You can fake the rashousen, but you'll have to time it really early to get the tech throw (about when you land). But it can be a good way to scare your opponent and force him to tech... Forward ? BTW : 5+K, c.S, 5+HS, rensen-> FRC-> Raieisageki S-> Meaty rashousen does more damage than any other rensen FRC follow up.

A full tension one, just like DW likes them ^^ (in fact he doesn't, as it waists tension... but, oh well here goes : ) c.S, 5+HS, Bentengari S-> FRC-> j.S (2), j.HS, FB Bomber-> Air dash-> j.D, Kokuugeki-> FRC-> Bomber-> 2+S (2)-> j.D, Bomber-> Rensengeki-> FRC-> Raieisageki S-> Meaty Rashousen I know it's likely the player would tech at the end of the sliding. In that case just do normal Rensen knock down, or go for the air throw instead. Got that up on youtube : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF9JyR4NZx8 Didn't want to post it in the video section, it's just a single combo after all...

I can't manage to super jump install in a combo like : 5+K, c.S (sJI), 5+HS, Raieisageki S-> FRC No matter what, I only get a jump install (I can see that by doing a jump after the FRC). When should I input the 28 motion ? EDIT : Never mind, I got it to work sometimes. Still, I see that Axl doesn't face the enemy... So Super jump install itself doesn't explain it. But I'm quite sure your idea of "how early he crossed the player" is wrong. As if you do 6+K (1 hit) 632147+S (fast)-> FRC you get to cross and face the opponent whatever the distance. So it can only be done in a gattling after a jump cancelable move ?

I mean you can only get Axl to face the opponent after a Raieisagki S FRC if you super jump installed it. (easiest is with a stand alone 632147+S) But, I only manage to combo c.S into a Raieisagki S FRC that faces the right direction if the c.s is not canceled by the Raieisagki S (which means its done as a stand alone again !) If I cancel from it (or from any other move) I get an Axl that faces the wrong direction (thus getting a backdash...) I don't know if that's because I do the input wrong (632147+S during c.S just like a stand alone input) but that's what I get. P.S : I'll try the super jump install in 5+K, c.S, 5+HS later to see that.

For the forward dash, just do the normal input you consistently do 632147S on the naked one. As you seem to do it fast enough to get the super Jump install for the forward dash. Of course, normal jump install only grants you to face the wrong direction... So you'll only have a backdash. BTW, there's no way to do a super jump install in a combo right ? Like 5+K, c.S-> super jump install-> 5+HS-> Raieisageki S-> FRC-> faces the right direction ^^ I'm wondering if 5+K, c.s-> super jump install may work, so that the raieisageki would cancel the move, and we won't have to wait for it's recovery to end ...