Justice7541

So I'm thinking about trying to pick up Noel again (I say this every iteration btw) but MAYBE IT'LL STICK THIS TIME SINCE SHE ACTUALLY HAS A KNOCKDOWN NOW. Just a couple of questions since it's been a really long time since I've played as or fought as a decent Noel: 1) Is drive mash still horribly unsafe mid-chain? Or can I try going for d.6B/6D mixups and frametraps now, etc.? 2) What's her Haida Loop this time around? 3) What's her optimal CR route now? I was looking at the combo thread and it looks like it's mostly the same in corner and midscreen, except BT > 6C 6B 22B ender now? 4) Did Mori ever confirm her canon bust size?

Is this one of those situations where your character sucks ass against 95% of the cast but is good against the one top tier character that everyone uses, i.e. CT Bang?

His stances take a bit to memorize but he's not super complicated. Most of his game is just poke into same combo over and over. He does require some reads to be able to open the opponent up but it's nothing extraordinary.

Or you could just block it and let him be stuck with a 3c on block, which kinda sucks.

Actually kinda looks like the teleport cancel frames start before Izayoi even reappears, or right as she's starting to reanimate (so before you can really see her since she's still all blurry). It'll end up just being a timing thing in the end but it might help to actually try press-and-holding 2B while she's still invisible. Do it like a few frames after you see her totally disappear and the link SHOULD work. Alternately, just do 2A 5B 623B for starters until you are more comfortable with the timing, if you can manage I-NO combos you can handle Izayoi no problem.

OD extension for 1.1 only.

i think he's probably referring to Sol's Dust, even though that is definitely an overhead by the animation. The question is why it launches with that animation though. Overheads that look like lows would be like, Testament's Dust.

The ground version is okay because you can generally just go up and around to be safe. It's the air version that gets me, I'm pretty sure that shit is just a huge square of red that covers the whole screen because I've gotten hit by it in lots of silly ways. It may not be the reason she's top tier but it sure as hell doesn't help.

It's not a glitch, it's just a crappy hitbox. Glitches would be like being able to block Yukiko IK mid-animation and not die and have her go full invul.

Carry them offscreen and do a tech throw trap, it's what the ballers do.

You can't "watch out" for it because YOU CAN'T SEE IT. That's the joke. I don't think I've ever seen an actual hitbox for that move either so I literally have no idea where it hits, how long it's active, etc. If she's doing 236X you basically have no choice but to block no matter where you are on screen because it might hit you for massive damage otherwise (it also happens to do a ton for a projectile attack). Probably won't be as annoying with her other nerfs though I guess.

Jin can AA 2A just because the hitbox on that move is ridiculous and the hurtbox is basically nonexistent. But that's Jin for you so

I think it's more accurate to say Hazama's problem isn't "getting in" from fullscreen so much as it is "getting close enough" to actually do anything. Chains will get you 90% of the way there but the last 10% where the opponent can outpoke you and you have nothing but a slow dash, floaty jump, and super short (albeit with very good frames) normals is where the "approach" problems start up. That said, you're looking at a guy who swings around on chains and has a command throw, how is he not going to be good short of intentionally being made shit? It's not like they can just take away his good close-range pressure options without totally gimping him, and it'd be just dumb to take away his long range options since that's his base sell. But yeah, I guess you can blame favoritism for that too, obviously Hazama is OP because someone was like I LIKE HATS THEY WILL BE TOP TIER IN THIS GAME and made it so.

Is her 236X hitbox still huge, invisible, and COMPLETELY FUCKING STUPID? I hate that move. As long as Petra can AA with 2A and get infinite gun reload spam with the meter system, she'll probably still be decent. Maybe not as good as current but I doubt she'll drop to bottom tier or anything.

I'nm surprised this thread hasn't been closed yet. Might as well get in on it while it's still up. Hazama's 6A is a pretty good overhead but you need meter to take it into anything, it does relatively low damage considering (6A > Jayoku is worth like 4.5k IIRC), and it's negative on block (and on hit if you don't Jayoku, I think). I don't know why you're acting surprised that MAYBE SOMEONE OUT THERE has a overhead that is 2 frames faster than Bullet's. Hazama has a lot of mixups. That's kinda... just how he is? Might as well complain about how Ragna has the best 5B and why doesn't everyone has a 5B as long as his etc. Also, he has two drive followups and he needs to hit you with the chain to get more. It's not like he can just jump around mashing D and zoom around the screen like he's Vegeta. Same goes with Valk and his wolf gauge, just because they have options to maintain the gauge effectively doesn't make it free. If your general complaint is "why does this character have specific tools that are better than mine" then I dunno what to tell you. If it's "why do top tiers exist" that's just because Arcsys likes to mess with characters a lot to keep things fresh. I prefer it to Capcom's "extend one move's hitbox and add one frame of recovery and call it a day" approach.

Throws are like 8f in BB, compared to 0f in GG, I would hope GG throws don't do as much.

It's actually a lot easier since you can mash two buttons and you also have a lot more time to do it.

Good writeup. This is the sort of thing people need to consider: when you can SEE the overhead, not how long it takes for the overhead to come out after you press a button. Just out of curiosity, what tools did you use to examine the frame-by-frame startup on these moves? I'd be interested in checking it out myself. Hell, maybe even make a frame viewer out of it, that'd be a cool project.

I was under the impression that holding back on GA Backdash would get you far back enough to escape 6A magnetism, at least with enough time to barrier. I could have been wrong about that I guess, I can't test it now

It would be weaker since it's a gatling, not a link. At least that's what I'd think just looking at the frame data.

Your most ambiguous high-low mixup is probably going to be 6[6] j.B > j.A or 2A. 66 66 (hoverdash > airdash) j.B/2A mixup works too. Unfortunately due to how slow Izayoi falls after hoverdash she's not going to really get a super ambiguous low right off a raw hoverdash. You have to screw with the timing a bit to keep the opponent guessing, it's not as simple as dash > overhead or not.

GA backdash beats 5A after Gadget at least. It should beat 6A too because of the distance you cover. Overall one of your better options versus Gadget vortex but I think 5C (and maybe some other stuff) will punish it so don't get too predictable with it.

At least you can't just throw out a random low-profile move even on minus moves to continue pressure anymore. Like any character with a normal less than -10 that can be spaced to be outside 2A range can make Izayoi guess just by throwing out a low profile move after. Even if it's inside 2A range, they can still jump to bait out 2A and Izayoi has to do a hard read between 2A nad 623C or get punished.

Well if 5A links now and they buffed the recovery on 6A (making it more +) 2A should work, unless they also reduced the hitstun somehow. It may even link into 5B if you're close enough since 5B is only 2f slower than 5A.

You still need hard reads. It's no replacement for a true DP, although the extra two frames on 6A will help a bit for getting out of dumb things.