Aginor

All the opponent has to do is jump block and watch for the throw in case you decide to do that instead of j.2c. So I still don't recommend it unless like your opponent likes to sit there and just block. =p

My friend tried a random 236d on me when I was playing noel. I reaction air supered any 236d. It's not really super unsafe and it's hard to bait when a person can just punish you on reaction with it.

What about Hazama? I tried it on him and the 6b reps don't seem to be trouble some but the walk up 6a or immediate 6a is weird because of his hitbox.

No you don't zone. If Noel has 50 meter, if she catches you summoning multiple Steins, or if you do 236d out of nowhere, you eat a free air super from noel. Zoning only works if Noel doesn't have 50 meter. Considering how she gets 50 meter in pretty much one combo and does a lot of damage in that process, you'll want to be careful. But yea, once noel has 50 meter, you should look for an opening and start rushing down against noel.

You can't cancel into a Stein summon if your j.2c is blocked. Your only safe option if j.2c is blocked is to rapid cancel it but I feel that meter is worth using more for tacking on supers at the end of your combos for the extra 1500-1700 damage. I would try to avoid it as much as possible, imo.

In case, any of you can't get the cross up 2b or 2d, another set up you can do is XX 3c 2b 5c 6c 5d jc land then 2b. This will give a low mix up in this set up and this will also catch forward rolls. Once you have your opponent conditioned to neutral tech, then you can use the 2b as a mix up or you can do a low air dash j.c with a 6b for double overhead or regular combo. Or you can do an empty jump to make your opponent think you will 2b but do 6b instead as an overhead. IMO, I think the most awesome set up has to be the cross up 2d and iad backwards lol. That's just great.

Ok well...have fun getting shot by swords. And no, this is not like hakumen vs mu.

Try not to use 2c that much against Bang since he has 3 jumps. You whiff it and you eat a combo that will probably take up half of your life. I don't think you can really do much about nails if you're blocking. Just hope you guess right in his mix up. As in if Bang does 5a 5b 2b tk nails, his options are either 5a, 2a, 5b, 5c, 6a, command throw, or 6b. Even if you can block his mix up, you still have to guess the command throw. As a general tip, if you're in the air and Bang is on the ground and you hold the 7 direction to block the overhead, make sure you barrier because his 5c overhead is for some reason air unblockable. Some good tools to use in this match up is DP, j.c, 2b, air throw.

Bad idea. I've gotten hit WHILE summoning steins by swords. Imo, you're better off rushing down lambda. If lambda ever does 214d or 214dc it's a free 6c FC for Mu. But idea is that you want to gain momentum and get a knockdown so you can summon steins. That way you don't get shot while doing it. It's a really weird match up imo.

Great combos but a little other side note would be to take into consideration how far you and your opponent are from the corner. There is a spacing where you have to do the corner version and there is a spacing where you can do the variation you suggested. However, there is a spot on the screen where if you do those combos, the 6c will whiff and you'll be too far to do a corner variation of the combo. Like I said, just a side note. This dead zone is about 1/3 of the screen from the corner if you're taking into account the whole field. Keep in mind this only happens when your opponent's back is towards the wall unless you're playing against Mu-12, Arakune, or Bang.

I can just bring mine? lol

It's not really worth doing that. First off, whether it crosses up or not is very spacing dependent and if it gets blocked, you have to spend a lot of meter to make it safe. Better off to use the meter for supers or dead angles. In the end, it's just a gimmick.

Alternative to this is throw dash 6a 6b dash 6a sj.2c dash 2b 6a 2c j.c j.2c damage: 3119 If you want to add in a super at the end, omit the 2c and do 2b 632146c for 4722 damage.

Btw, I'm talking more about tager. 720 during Mu's 236d like in recovery. But yea...

I don't know if 5c would be a very good move to start off because you can't gatling into many normals if you use 5c. I'll try it. As for other ideas, I've been experimenting with 3c 6dh (insert some normal with lots of blockstun here) 63214c(full charged) in terms of breaking primers. Or maybe 3c 6dh jc into a high low mix up. Just some random idea, may or may not work. Edit: Forgot to mention the 'h' after the d button press means to hold down the d button. Just trying to come up with shorter notation. =p

I remember testing this but can't recall if Bang can punish 6b 63214c with 5a if he IB'd the 6b. I'm pretty sure that's the case. Like probably if you see your opponent doing that, you'd have to 6b 623c. Not something I'd like to do but as long as Mu doesn't get punished right?

Lol well....the better players will IB it at least 80% of the time. Even though you're saying some characters don't have an answer doesn't mean this strategy is even that great in the first place. A good example of this would be tager. Yes 2d goes over 720 but you're only getting like 2-3k off of the 2d since it's in the middle of the drive chain. If tager lands the 720, that's already 5.6k and he has more HP than you. Btw, his answer to that is IB collider or IB 2c. Lambda: Sees spacing, uses 3c. Sees you're up close, DP Carl: Sees you're approaching, time to throw fireball with doll! Staffless Litchi: If you can even get Litchi to be staffless in the first place. lol Bang: IB 2d. Btw, you can't react to Jayoku. By the time you do d.5a, hazama is already in Jayoku animation. GOOD LUCK REACTING TO THAT SUPER FLASH! lolol Even if some characters had no response to this pressure, good players will IB to gain meter to be able to do something about it. All I see in this thread is using very high risk moves to obtain a low to medium reward. If you want that then go ahead. lol Have fun.

I just saw this combo on the first page. I honestly don't think this works. Can I get confirmation? I've tried omitting the 6d, using 6a after the 214d dash, using 2b 6a 6c instead of 2b 5c 6c...I just can't get this to work.

Runis, there is such a thing called instant block which reduces your blockstun. Therefore, I recover faster and I can Blood Kain. I can 720. I can Jayoku. Btw, it is a guaranteed out. Like I said in my last post, this mind game layer only works if your opponent doesn't instant block or it's online and your opponent can't instant block anyways.

http://a.imageshack.us/img821/5341/mu12colorchart.png I uploaded it just now. I'll put it in my guide once it's done. =p

Mashers! lol Great find kro. Problem with the 5d 6d 236d set up is that characters can forward roll, ib the laser and do a reversal. Happened to me so I'd think you would want to mix it up. As much as I like that corner set up, you're assuming that your opponent will neutral tech. This set up won't work on forward rolling. But then again, if your opponent forward rolls, just do 2b and pick up into another corner combo. lols My biggest concern right now against Mu's oki and set ups are forward rolls. Neutral teching isn't so much of a problem and neither are backward rolls.

tbh, all ragna has to do against the drive is ib 5d, go into blood kain then he can either DP or go into 5b/5c and you get hit. lol So much for a "simple" solution. So you're saying we should take high risks with no reward. Gotcha! Oh yea...I didn't tell you that Hazama can add a dash distance to jayoku houtenjin. If you like getting hit by that be more than welcome to use 5d! Bang just daifunka's or ougi's or even guard points and you can't do anything unless you rapid. Waste of meter. Tager ib 720s. Litchi doesn't even need to DP if you space your 5d. If you're even up close to do anything then she can 5d. Hell..even Noel punishes that shit for free. You can only say the only extent to where this stuff works is online or people who can't ib. Like I said, pointless thread.

5b is jump cancellable on block.

For your problem against hakumen and bang. Use air throw. Summon one stein in case of something like tech ice wave for Jin. Double jump height I don't even use. Rather be close to the ground and more maneuverable rather than be at double jump height with a little more damage while putting yourself at more risk.

Discuss the Taokaka match up here.