TheRealBobMan

The first post mentions GGAC, not +R. Do you mean +R or do not enough people have it to guarantee running the tournament on it?

Hey, so for anyone going to the loketest next week, have we already confirmed if dizzy, the mechanic not the character, is in the game? I don't remember seeing anyone get stunned in what little footage was uploaded, and I don't remember if anyone brought it up during all the excitement. Any new stuff we'd like to see tested during the loketest, besides Axl, I-No, and whoever the 3rd character is?

I thought he wanted to become the president of Japan, which doesn't exist, then decided to become the president of Zepp. Or something. But yeah, the power of breaking down difficult sounding goals into baby steps: 1. Quit drugs cold turkey. 2. Become a ninja. Next: Become president. He makes life seem so easy. Maybe after Ky frees Dizzy, he'll retire and let Chipp take the throne.

Yeah, if there's no restriction preventing you from buffering the input before you're put into block stun, you can guarantee Sakura hits them during hit-pause on any move that doesn't have reduced hit-pause (like I-No's f.S). I was considering the minimum amount of time it would take to do the input after being put into block stun when I made my earlier post. Being able to buffer the input ahead of time and then go back to blocking gets rid of that problem.

Ky's 2K? That's a lvl 1 move with 4 active frames, so you're hitting his active frames when you get the CH. While that's still really good, it's something that can be baited since hitpause would be over in that case. It would be really dumb, but stuff like 2K > Vapor Thrust, 2K > RTL, and possibly even 2K > 6P (not sure if Sakura hits below Ky's waist) could go through it. Makes sense that they dropped the invincibility on the move so that people at least have sort of ghetto baits for it. The chain counter used to be frame 12, so that could have guaranteed damage on lvl 5 moves that were close enough to Baiken. 10 frame Sakura can do it to lvl 3 moves, making some previously safe blockstrings using jump cancels unsafe, and do it to more moves than before because that hitbox is bigger and will work vs disjointed attacks like Ky's 3H. Unless a move has tons of disjointed range, is a projectile, is lvl 1 or 2, or is a high/low/throw, it's going to be hard to find a place for it in the Baiken matchup. Even some overheads are going to suck because of the telegraph/startup on them (Bandit Bringer, most dusts). Are there any restrictions on Baiken's counters that make it so the input only counts while she's in block stun? Now that I'm thinking about it you should be able to buffer the 4 part of 412 when blocking lows in order to reduce the time it takes to do the input, so you can still guarantee Sakura vs lvl 3 lows. Maybe it's worse than I thought though... can you buffer 412, then switch back to 1/4 for the block and tap/release S on the same frame and have Sakura come out? That would mean guaranteed damage against all attacks in any situation where the Baiken player has enough time to safely do that. Buffer it out while you're waiting for the next hit to connect, then Sakura on contact. I'm going to test this in a little bit. And even if there's a restriction on the input to prevent you from buffering it while not in block-stun, I think you could still guarantee counters against any attack in a block-string starting with the second hit. Ugh.

Thanks. : ) Derivation... watch it be a modification that you input during the first few frames. So do 214K to do a new whimpy version of HCL, and 214K214S to do regular HCL. Eh... I'd say that I like the new art but don't want it. It's like Junior Mints or Pringles. You give me some and I'll eat all of them (even if it was a whole box/tube, or several), but I don't want them enough to go get some. I-No's smile looks like the Joker and the slit in her mini-skirt cranks her tramp value to 11 so I want to look away... but dat ass. I'm not even a butt kind of guy. It's like Homer Simpson's treadmill jiggle or some terrible car crash.

That's true, but I-No's difficulty comes from having to time things with 2-4 frame windows back to back three or so times just to do one basic link. 5K > HCL > FRC Airdash requires doing the HCL input fast enough to combo off of 5K, which is hard, but then you have to hit the FRC (2 frame window) and buffer an airdash such that the first forward input is within 10 frames of the second, and the second is within 4 frames of the FRC. Then you have to link into whatever move is appropriate for your target's weight, distance from the ground, and hitbox, which sometimes is an immediate VCL > 5K > HCL > repeat the madness. This is compounded by having to use 5K > HCL > 6FRC6 in so many places, such as off of Sdive, Stroke(S), CH HCL from not-point-blank-in-the-corner, or for so many goals like corner carry or damage optimization. Hell, then you have to factor things like Jump Install 2S > HCL > 6FRC6 > off of a dash in... This change will make I-No easier, but she's not going to be Faust or Pot or Kliff. Though now I'm wondering if they'll make Chemical Love auto Jump Install... Yeah, I'm definitely scared of nerfs on HCL. For 2/3 of the 214 input you're holding back, so you can easily just block on reaction to seeing stuff start. While you were holding back just before hitting 6+Button to make it go active before, you still had to commit to the startup of it. They could have nerfed the startup time, the active window, the recovery (made it unsafe instead of +3), or anything else. It could actually be cool if they nerfed the startup so that it only comboed in the corner off of lvl 5 moves, but then buffed Hdive so that it accomplishes the corner carry that we used to get off of 5K HCL stuff. Maybe it'll be a buff in a way that I'm hoping it's not. If they increase her ability to cover horizontal range like that, they might have gotten rid of the other note to weaken her oki and zoning options as compensation for letting her spam HCL, which would mean she might be more zoning heavy. She's already in the right place of "sometimes maybe you zone until you can knock them down", which is where I like it. If her tool set is designed to be more dedicated to projectile whoring, I'm not going to want to play her. So, the follow up has the same moonrunes for the first part, which I'd then assume means it says "Chemical Love". Can anyone translate those last two in the parentheses for us? I would guess you could do Horizontal into Vertical, but the one using the S button has a different following moonrune, so I don't think that's it. Every time I see her butt I think of a glazed honey ham. Someone please make it stop. I don't wanna catch her STDS.

Wow, that's good to know. I knew that with negative edge you'd have twice as many chances for the input to come out without dropping compared to just hitting 44 and possibly having the second one be one frame too early, but I didn't realize it'd buffer with a bigger window. Thanks. Now that I'm inputting the 632146 input a lot faster I'll have to force myself to react with that instead of backdash attempts. At least until Pot starts going into Hammerfall and winds up having to waste meter to make it safe when I stick on the 4 input on reaction. : )

Yeah, you're using a jump option between the j.D to the dj.H, and then using the second on the airdash out of that Pdive. Go into j.H > Sdive, j.S/H > FFVCL, or whatever else works.

If Soraka is in this, I might actually enjoy trolling the shit out of people by 1. Shooting bananas from across the screen 2. Buffing my defense and restoring my health 3. Giving myself free meter every 10 seconds 4. Sealing enemy special moves 5. Dropping enemy magic resistance to compensate for my shit attack power Oh oh, I hope I get to buy 6 Sunfire capes and run away till you die. Now zoning wont even require pushing buttons!

I'm pretty sure that you can link 5P out of grounded HCL on most characters (probably not the heavyweights), though it's not really an optimum thing to do stuff like HCL > 5P > c.S > HCL > 5P > whatever because 5P scales so hard and does so little damage. The example you saw was probably off of a counter-hit HCL. That's common when doing a dash-in HCL, since you're intentionally trying to catch them not blocking (cause knockdown > oki), or fishing for a counter-hit off of a frame trap (f.S, 2H, or maybe a note). On CH it's way easier to catch with 5P, though c.S should be possible if you're close enough, and maybe even 5K if they're floaty or got hit by HCL while airborne. Now, if it was an HCL that was already mid-combo, it was probably HCL Extend off of something like a high FFVCL. I remember seeing stuff like... on slayer 2K > 6P > 5H > IAD j.K > FFVCL, and then dash in HCL > 5P catch is a possibility. It's probably more useable with the j.S > dj.S > VCL > dash j.K > FFVCL stuff since that will juggle the non-floaty characters a little higher and give enough time for HCL Extend to work. And then sj.S > sj.H > VCL > HCL > 5P works on some characters if your timing on the VLC > HCL > 5P is perfect. It doesn't feel like it's worth it in the majority of cases though... you're better off just landing into c.S out of the VCL or doing Pdive into some fancy stuff.

I'm able to score counter hits against Ky's jab. Hold back, start recording, do 5P, keep holding back for a bit then stop recording. If you Sakura late he'll block, if you do it during his recovery it hits, if you're really tight you score a Counter Hit. Ky's 5P has 4 active frames, and there's 1 frame of leniency on lvl 1 moves (11 frames block pause, 10 frame startup on Sakura), so assuming you block the first active frame the window to do the input and score a counter hit is 4 frames. You're already holding back, so you only need two frames to do the 12 part of the 412 input. I'm also getting it with Chipp's c.S. 1 active frame, lvl 3 move. 13 frames of block-pause means the window is 3 frames, and you need two of them to do the input. This is extremely tight, but still doable on prediction, and you'll know you did a guaranteed Sakura if you scored the counter-hit. While Zakuro's hitbox makes it hard to catch low jump-ins, it still works (and so does Sakura). "If you do it right, the first and second hits of the 3HS will hit in very rapid succession instead of the normal slight pause in between both" I want to confirm that this does not happen. The time between the first and second hits is the same if the first hit is blocked (or hits), because that is only the block pause. The second hit goes active immediately following the end of the first active window (noted as 8,1 in the frame data). So... if you time the 2nd hit's single active frame meaty on her wakeup, you could probably get away with using 3H on oki, but she can still get a guaranteed Sakura on you. If you let the first hit connect, you're giving her like 5 frames of leniency + the active time remaining between the first and second hit to counter-hit you with Sakura. Even if you hold up after starting 3H so that you'll jump out if you time it wrong and let the first hit connect, you still give her a 5 frame window to hit you (probably more because of jump start up). More important than that is the telegraph on the move starting, which is 23 frames (or close to 30 if you meaty it). That gives her enough time to prepare to do the counter on reaction, which reduces the risk of messing up. This is probably one of the closest things to a guaranteed scenario Baiken can get when you really think about it. Because of the time it takes to do the counter input, you can only guarantee damage against lvl 3 or higher attacks. This is doable, and against lvl 5 moves the window is large enough that I would expect a good Baiken to be able to do it relatively consistently against moves that are "slow enough" to start. If the attacker doesn't cancel into something else (RC/FRC, reversal, jump) with frame perfection, the window is larger for Baiken to score a counter-hit. Not as good as guaranteed damage, but still pretty good for her. I mean, the guy on offense has to play around this to avoid letting Baiken hit him for free. Now, if she blocks a low attack, it needs to be lvl 4 or 5 to guarantee damage, as she has to spend the extra frame on the 4 input in the 412 command. This is extremely risky because you need to switch to high block within 1-2 frames of correctly blocking low. It's like intentionally making yourself block an Eddie unblockable in order to get guaranteed damage as a reward. You can err on the side of doing it late and still have the counter be effective, but they can bait it as usual in that case. I bet this would look damn sexy in a match, but goddamn you'd have to be nuts to try it. It's also equally as risky to do a frame perfect Sakura against an overhead since starting the input even a frame early means you get hit, though your window is 1-frame wider and the input is easier to do. So back on topic... your friends should probably be punishing you for doing that 3H, but if they don't, don't stop using it. *Shrug*

I plan to. : ) Except that I don't know how I can test hit-stop and block-pause without recording equipment. We're going to need someone else's help with this. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some wackiness. I didn't realize that counter-hits add hit-stop that doesn't apply to the attacker until I checked the +R wiki recently. I don't think that was mentioned in the AC data. Unless the Baiken player expects 3H, then sees 3H start up, it's going to be really difficult to do a guaranteed Sakura. Mixing up your oki, which everyone should be doing already, will reduce her ability to react appropriately because of the risk of getting hit, like in your examples. It's just that where other characters have Slashback to do something similar, her guard cancels work without a restriction on wakeup and can be guaranteed damage. She's really scary in theory, but it's more of a sheathed sword strategy for beating someone that does mixups without mixing it up. What if there's a way to OS something with an incredibly small vulnerability window to make it relatively safe? Like, she's holding 4, then does 12(S) > 1K. In the event that they whiffed or didn't attack intentionally to catch her pushing a button, I think she'd cancel the 2S with FD? Does that work, or are FD cancels move specific? Ugh, I'm doing that thing again. Sorry to derail the thread. Let's make a new one to discuss this or something.

Baiken can use her counters during hit/block-pause. That's why I brought it up. Are the block-pause values different from the listed hit-pause values in the wiki? That would be really important information to know considering Baiken's counters are fast enough to be guaranteed against even lvl1 moves if done frame perfect. Since you're a very experienced Ky player (and wrote some damn good guides in the Ky section!), I'm assuming that either: A) Baiken's counters have undergone other changes that we don't know about. Someone I'd consider equally as reputable as yourself pointed out (in the macro bug thread) that, yes, you can use Sakura to guarantee damage against lvl1 moves, so lvl 5's which has more hit/block pause should be easier to do this to. This person's testing method could have been wrong in some way (mistakes happen). B) The people you're getting your experience with are doing the counter too late to make this apparent, or you're not getting accurate enough test results yourself for whatever other reason. I mean, you do have to be pretty close to frame perfect to make this work, so in practice most Baiken's wont get this consistently 100% because of the threat of not blocking high/low/throw properly when predictively buffering the command. It's just that on oki, if you're going for a frame 23 mid, odds are a Baiken player will be able to consistently pull this off. Or at least do it enough that you can't rely on just 3H as an oki tool. Thankfully it's the weekend, so I should be able to finally get around to playing with this. I encourage other people to do the same. It'd be good news to find out that I'm wrong since I-No vs Baiken is hard enough for me as it is. Or uh... I'll pick up a pocket Baiken and start wrecking unprepared people if I'm right.

That's what I asked about 4 posts ago. Best way to deal with her "theoretically OP" counters is to projectile whore or zone her out (max range 3H?), or have crazy mixup since she can't counter what she can't block. Ugh, I should be testing this stuff, but instead I'm at work being a responsible adult. Anyway, this probably isn't the best thread to talk about Baiken's guard counters (though I feel it's apt since they directly tie into her matchups!). I was asking because that part of the Ky vs Baiken analysis stuck out to me. I think most people don't realize how strong the buff to Sakura is. You can still oki her and attack her, but the dynamic of her matchups is going to be totally different once people get a feel for her new toolset. Stuff that looks safe right now isn't safe, or at least wont be for the reasons that people think.

I get that the 2nd hit has very short recovery, and the move is listed as being jump cancelable so you could jump FD as soon as it's blocked, but Sakura starts on frame 10 now and Ky's 3H has 15 frames of block-pause. It's not even a frame-perfect endevour to guarantee Ky gets hit while he's unable to move because he's still in block-pause, assuming my understanding is correct. This would normally be somewhat balanced out by Baiken needing to go for the input with a little bit of prediction (thus opening herself up to high/low/throw mixup), but on Oki she has enough time to do it on reaction since the move starts on frame 23.

AC: Characters have 420 HP +R: Characters have 460 HP Sol does a damage-optimized combo that's character specific and only works off some unprorated counter-hit normal. It does 280 damage. AC: 66% of their HP +R: 60% of their HP Maximum damage is "reduced". Yeah, you're doing the same damage, but if it used to take 2 combos to get the kill and now it takes 3 because they survived with 20 health, it's that many more mixups that Sol has to successfully run to get a win. "...as Baiken cannot refute 3HS with guard cancel so Ky gets meaningful oki against Baiken now..." Does 3H out range Sakura? *Edit* I took so long finishing my post that someone beat me to it.

1. Make sure +R is turned on. 2. Select the default color palettes (not EX, Slash, or Reload). 3. Press the D button for any character. And before this question gets asked yet again, if you press H you'll get some anime reference color. Justice is special. I think it's her Slash palettes that are all Eva references (P is orange/white Unit 0, K is blue Unit 0, S is Unit 1, H is Unit 2, and D is like Unit 5 or 6). Most of her colors are references if I remember right... I just don't watch that much anime so I don't know what's what.

I know you're working on a FRC themed video right now, but once that and all the character videos are done, think you can do one focused on how the tension pulse system and guard bar work? Those are probably the mechanics that set GG apart from everything else, so a video on that might be appealing to people who are a little more knowledgeable about other fighting games.

Just saw this: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/11/killer-instinct-balance-updates-wont-require-patching/ "Without having to content update or patch the game at all, we can just go in on the cloud and tweak these variables without the player having to know." Seems like a bad idea to change the game balance without telling the playing community.

Regular (so not EX/Slash/Reload colors) H for the anime palette, and D for the Blazblue palette.

Just saw this: http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/11/jojos-bizarre-adventure-may-drop-microtransactions-in-the-west/ I figure most people in this thread already have the game, but for those of us who don't, I guess this is good news.

The only question that matters now is... DO WE FINALLY HAVE RANDOM MUSIC SELECT? And I'm not even going to wait for an answer. I'm downloading that shit right now! *Edit* God's in his Heaven, all is right with the world! WE HAVE RANDOM MUSIC SELECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot::toot:

Uh... if you don't assign a macro to a button, you can't actually use it. There's no "very unlikely" because you can't use something that's turned off. Is that the kind of cabinet that Xrd is supported by? I thought +R was supported by the stuff AC is supported by (or some other easy-to-update thing that doesn't involve server connectivity), so there's no worry on importing a +R board as far as I know.

Just moved the "(jump install)" part over to make it more obvious, and included "sj.S" which I forgot to put in. c.S wont link to j.H. *Edit* Forget what I said earlier. There's plenty of time to confirm Stroke(H) off of CH 5H/2H. It wasn't mentioned in the AC wiki, but the +R wiki lists the values for extra hit-pause on CH. Lvl 5 moves get +12, so you're looking at 27 frames of hit-confirm time. Meterless cornerpush combos all day off of CH 2H/5H. If you're using the 2P > Tick throw / 2P > 2H frametrap, you'll probably get plenty of these. Also, while it's probably never worth going for, there's enough floorslide on CH Kdive to just barely go into Stroke(H) if you hit them airborne while you're low to the ground. Flashy, but really impractical.