TheRealBobMan

WOAH, WHAT? If there's no recovery on landing, we're back to having + on block FFVCL oki. That doesn't seem right though... I've been messing around with combos (trying to use j.D in IAD combos, didn't realize that you can't fastfall the VCL out of j.D even though you're still in airdash frames) and I still have issues where I input c.S too early after landing, when I'm clearly standing at neutral, but my input drops because I'm still in recovery. Perhaps now it can recover in the air, but if you land the recovery frames continue on the ground, hence FFVCL in combos still having that odd window for linking into c.S or 5P?

You could super jump FBdive > j.H and recover well before hitting the ground, so is it the whole duration (which happens to be a really long time) and the frame she lands, or "until landing"? I'll check it tonight when I get home I guess. Thanks Mynus! Keep on rockin'. *Edit* Forgot to check it. DERP I did mess around with 2K > 6P > Stroke(H) burst bait as a tech trap. If they don't burst but decide to tech, it's easier to deal with now that we can jump cancel, though this is really only reliable in the corner (except for on-reaction punishes to forward techs, which is sort of asking for it). I only tested characters to the right of OS in the char select screen + Pot so far since I don't have lots of time. In most cases a forward tech is easy to throw on reaction, and a back tech is catchable on prediction though the window is small, and neutral techs are super hard or probably don't work. However, in some cases neutral techs are easier to catch, and sometimes the window to throw a forward/back tech lines up when using prediction (in Eddie's case, it seems that back/neutral line up). The best case seems to be Venom. It seems the timing to catch all three is nearly the same, so he can really only tech or not tech. I can maybe do a more full writeup on it when I'm done researching this, though it's sort of silly and not in any way guaranteed. Most characters can always just tech a little later to throw off the back/neutral timing, which on top of being strict most of the time requires you to predict that they will tech. Or they can not tech and punish your j.H, which isn't good. But yeah, if you go for Stroke(H) to bait a burst and they don't burst, resulting in you hitting OTG near the corner, throw their tech. Especially if they're Venom.

I still mess up on the j.S > VCL at times. It feels like my muscle memory brain-farts or something, and I mess up when it comes to timing the j.S or doing the VCL after going into j.S (I either drop the j.S or the VCL). If I try to do like j.H > VCL, or just j.S > j.H > land > c.S/5K, it works, and if I do the 6FRC6 > FFVCL it works. This is the kind of thing that just needs more practice. Keep it up, you're almost there!

It doesn't seem to be able to duck things that you can duck with 2K and 2H. I would hope it's not the same as that head-attribute stuff they started putting in BB and P4A, but I assumed there was some sort of special difference. Why would it specify 4 frames of 2K if she's low to the ground for almost the whole move? I'd like it if the wiki was as informative as possible so people can look up stuff and not even have to ask questions like these. Where do we draw the line for where we specify something is low profile then? At ducking overheads? Should I change it or not? I don't want the character page to say something different from the character's frame data page, which we currently have a lot of.

I hate to double post, but the wiki says that I-No is in Counter Hit State out of j.H until landing. Is that true? I'm going to try to make some minor corrections during lunch breaks, but I need to know about some of this stuff that seems off. For example, 2S is low to the ground, but as far as I know it doesn't have low-profile frames like 2K and 2H. And the wiki page says 2K prorates 70% but the frame data page says 75%. Where is the accurate shit we're supposed to get our info from so I can use that to fix this?

Yeah, the wiki needs some serious work. DQRF told me he had to fix that HCL and VCL had their sprites swapped until like a month ago, and he's a Sol main. You'd think one of us would catch and fix these things.

It wont be the same in +R, but in AC you could hit 50% combos without spending meter off of a CH Stroke(S). It'd cause untechable float (I don't think that's changed)) that you could then link into hoverdash > j.D > late VCL and then link that into c.S > whatever, which would usually put them in the corner and let you go for her meterless dive loops. These combos should still work, but Stroke(S) now prorates 80%, so the damage wont be as good. Stroke(H) should still lead to really high damage since it launches (no need to use 6P to launch which forces 90% prorate), only prorates 90%, and will let you corner push with stuff like jump cancel (it does that now) > Pdive > airdash > whatever for meterless corner damage. While I-No still hits really high damage in +R, she got 5 new prorates (2 forced). You have fewer starters you can go for big damage off of, especially when not spending meter. CH 6H works but it's somewhat positioning dependent if you don't want to use HCL/VCL frcs. I think CH Kdive would still work. During the floorslide something like hoverdash j.S > dj.S > dj.H > whatever, or 5H > jumping whatever would probably work. Mynus, Honnou, and Buckles/Pestilence should have better info than I do since I'm still relatively bad at combos. Just remember that you want to hit with high-damage high-level moves early when applicable. That Stroke(S) > j.D > VCL does a ton of damage in AC by itself because you're doing 40 > 40 > 45 before the scaling really starts to kick in. I'd imagine that despite the 80% forced prorate, FBdive could lead to easy combos with good damage. You can TK it out of c.S and 5H, so you can bypass the 90% forced prorate on 6P, and go into corner VCL loops depending on positioning. Experiment with that.

Awww. I remember something about Koichi thinking I-No would be high back when they were first interviewing people about it around when it launched. I see lots of I-No players, but I haven't seen him lately, and most of the I-No play I've seen recently has been uninspiring. Then again, while the game has been out a year over there, it's still somewhat early. Stuff is still developing and being discovered. We don't even have the game yet (err, not the US SKU anyway). No need to really care about what the list says. This is GG. Really cool to see Zappa near the top though. It's my favorite matchup, and I'll probably see more people willing to try him out since he's good.

Considering turbofall and roll cross up, I'd actually like to see them design her more around combat at mid-screen rather than poke > carry > corner oki all day. Since her new super requires movement to drop flowers, I would think that's their plan.

Oh yeah, forgot that the 6P loop still has dolphins in it. Didn't realize she could still do the SVD loop though. I see it used in combos sometimes, but never looped. *Shrug* I guess I haven't been watching enough +R footage. I'm loving the changes to FB dive, but I need to practice some follow ups out of it to optimize what I get. It clashed Sol's j.P once when I was playing with a friend, so that's something to watch out for in that matchup, since his j.P beats a ton of I-No's moves already when he's going air to ground on you (including 6P!). Even S and K dive lose to it at times when landing on him from above where you would think his hitbox would be. Some notes from playing against Sol: FB Sidewinder gives him better ability to get damage where he normally wouldn't, and gives him some burst-bait potential (intentionally float I-No too high for the clean hit so he'll land out of her burst, but can still Clean Hit anyway), but I-No's f.S is safer to bait stuff with since it recovers faster, HCL can take the place of gimmicky VCL poking at times while covering more options than VCL does, we can combo into 5H from further away, and we have FB Note. In this matchup, his buffs seems to affect him more after he's landed a hit, whereas our buffs seem to help us land a hit without getting hit. Also, while Sol's damage output is still pretty high, I wasn't taking as much damage in combos quite as consistently as before. Do you guys know if the change to Slashback is still there? At one point they made it so that if you successfully SB'd a move, the window for success increases to 6 frames for 30 frames, similar to how failure means you can't block for 30 frames. I'm just not sure if that's still there since the other changes were reverted.

For a simple stimulus > reaction situation, like tap button when you see 6K start, 200ms / 12 frames is possible, assuming 6K (or whatever move) telegraphs on frame 1 and you've learned the telegraph. This is assuming only 6K comes out. Now, when you have all these lows, you're assuming you hold downback unless 6K comes out, so it's still the same thing. The problem is that there are multiple overheads, and a low that leaves the ground like one of the overheads does. A complex reaction takes somewhere around 380ms / 23 frames, but that's only assuming 2 stimuli. You're watching for Badmoon and 6K, but also have to avoid the false start on Haircar. Every additional stimuli adds something like 60ms, so these numbers people get are well explained. The important things to take away are that you need to: 1. Learn the telegraphs for these moves so you can react to them as soon as possible 2. Learn to simplify the reaction type If I watch for 6K and only 6K, sure, I can block it in time and not have to worry about lows, but then I'm opened up to badmoon. If I watch for badmoon I'm opened up to haircar faults, and wont react to 6K in time. If I watch Millia's legs and block high when they disappear from being near the ground, I wont fault on Haircar, but I'll react to badmoon! There's still the problem with her hair being similar in color to her legs, so I have to relearn the stimulus for blocking 6K (I guess I'd be fine against various color pallets until I do that though). Anyway, I totally forgot about this thing. Now I have a way to practice at work!

Sorry, it's only JP PSN right now. Dive loop. Goddamn, I really miss having good airthrow range. And on another note, May's 63214S is ****ing hilarious now. Wall-bounce off of each hit. Do 6H > cancel into OHK before startup > 1 hit of 63214S > Deluxe Textile Bomber (whiff) > relaunch for lulz. She's full of gimmicks and isn't completely braindead anymore since there's no dolphin loop and her command throw kinda sucks, so I might pick her back up to troll casuals and online play. Now she has guaranteed stun combos off of starters that aren't CH 6P that do like 60% damage, so this matchup is probably still going to be hell.

I went ahead and got it. I guess I'll spend this weekend posting relevant information in between ejaculations if I can muster the strength. Holy shit I don't get f.S all the time in combos when I don't want it! HOLY SHIT 2S COMBOS INTO 5H FROM FURTHER THAN POINT BLANK. HOLY BUTTFUCKING DICKBALLS BATMAN I CAN DO COMBOS OFF OF FB DIVE!!!!!!!!!11111111one And now I'm going to drag my PS3 to an arcade for everyone to enjoy.

What kind of curriculum doesn't have integers? Gotta learn the essentials. So, what was up with May's mobility with getting onto dolphins as they jump through hoops? Did it seem gimmicky or did it seem like it was going to give her mixup opportunities and/or better space control?

I don't see any integers in that equation. Did anyone try to RC during a super flash, like say during Dragon Install, to see if they could move before the screen freeze ends and have huge frame advantage? If not, that should probably go on the list for the next Loketest, whenever that is.

Ok, **** it, I'm paying for the game a second time at a markup. I'm not willing to wait if this is going to turn into the PSN launch again. How long did we have to wait for that? Like 3-4 months past when they said? **** it. I should save monies since I'm getting laid off in like a month, but **** it, this is GG. Are you getting any matches in so far? I'm really curious about the Zappa, Axl, May, and Chipp matchups. Are we getting new threads for +R, or are we just going to add stuff in to the old ones?

CPUs are really only good to learn what moves look like, since you're probably not going to learn how to recognize every move in the game by training with 1-2 characters in training mode, and practicing your confirms when you don't have time to think about what combo you're doing. Yeah, getting reversal Dusted by Faust is annoying, but at least you can learn to recognize the dust so you can block it high. Or slashback moves that are slow. If you make a conscious effort not to fall into stupid patterns that work on CPUs but not humans, you can still get something out of playing against them. Learn to bait hammerfall by attacking from a safer distance, using fast pokes so you can block, or gatlings that happen quickly enough to go through it. Or confirm into a super to blast through it. Just be aware of hammerfall break > throw. If you're getting thrown out of pressure, don't leave gaps at that range. There will be a time and a place where you can get away with it during a match with a person, just as there will eventually be a scrub that always mashes reversal Pot Buster while blocking just to see if you **** up. Don't lose to that guy. Time your jump-in better, or don't commit to whatever unsafe ender you're doing, or don't drop your block string. Really, it helps to have that stupid perfect reaction crap keeping you honest once in a while. Just make sure not to fall into a pattern when you start playing with real people. They wont make the same mistakes the CPU makes, so if you rely on abusing bad AI you wont beat actual people. On the subject of stupid punishes for CPU controller reading, once I did 6K+H with Chipp on Pot. He read the throw attempt and did Pot Buster to beat it, which was beaten by airborne 6K OS.

I don't have money to buy the game a second time at a markup. Isn't it really expensive to get JP PSN points? I'd consider it if the PS3 version of +R was discounted on PS+ like the Vita version currently is (I got PS+ for free). So, with 18 frames of airdash, it should be possible to HCL > 6FRC6 > j.D > FFVCL. Can you test how that might optimize damage on some characters in the corner (land into c.S > VCL > c.S > whatever)? *Edit* Also test if it's possible to Pdive > dash j.D? I don't think it is, but it might be 1-frame tight. Pdive can airdash cancel on frame 9, so either that would be the first frame of her 6 startup frames on airdash, meaning it would work, or you'd start after that, meaning you only have 15 frames to work with, so 16frame j.D wont work.

Yeah, I thought that stage had been mentioned to crash previously in this thread or another one. Also, using different hard drives in PS3s can cause issues if they're not at least 7200RPM. Most people buy whatever has more storage and don't think about that sort of thing, so they wind up with terrible loading issues with some games.

I'm not sure I understand that question, but I think that's something along the lines of "if you IAD or otherwise use one airdash and then land, is the second airdash still installed in the event you immediately go for the 2S > HCL setup?" If that's what you mean, I really REALLY want to know the answer too. : ) The extra airdash time means I can't do 66956 > j.K > j.S > j.H and have the j.H barely whiff setting up a low (it now connects giving more time to react because of hit-pause, from what little testing I had), but it's still possible to do silly airdash pressure and 50/50 on the end with j.D / j.H into low. If you still have one airdash on landing, 2S is going to be scary as **** off of that. And I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be.

Before +R, the Dizzy matchup was probably in our favor. She probably has the safest oki, but I-No's risk-reward ratios rock on oki. I'd like to see Dizzy do 50% damage for little meter without cranking the guard bar, especially off of a low. "Also, Learning how to properly slashback predictable/otherwise not punishable strings/moves makes you really a huge threat." This. This is HUGE. If they always go for the same block string or the same jump in or whatever, you can easily slashback into a punish. It might be a little difficult at first when you're not used to timing something on reaction so precisely, but it really doesn't take any practice once you have that down. I feel like there's this crazy misconception that you must sit around in training mode practicing slashbacks for hours to be able to do one, and that's completely wrong. I don't practice them, period, and I get them, though to be fair I did practice powershielding in Melee, so I'm used to timing stuff to a 2 frame window. The exception is checking things like hitboxes in training mode or seeing if it's possible to slashback something like Dark Angel (can't get that one, though it might be possible with buffed SB in +R. I can slashback most of Bankai Messai though ). The big deal with defense is that while with offense most things apply to every character, defense is pretty character specific, and you have to play a lot to learn it. Most people say it's worthless to practice against the CPU because it's stupid and you'll learn bad habits for maneuvering and offense, but if you're not playing with other people all the time, you're not really going to learn what the animations for every attack in the game look like. How would you learn that by practicing combos with 1 character in training mode? Anyway, once you can recognize the startup of a move well enough, if it has at least 12 frames of startup past when it first telegraphs, you can SB it reliably if the other dude always does it in the same places. And any move that's slow enough, like Bandit Bringer, can be SB'd on reaction every time. Damn, I still need to write that ****ing article about reaction time and defense.

I-No's combos are very improvisational. There really isn't a "one combo fits all" solution to her gameplay, since learning combos with her tends to be like learning how to link strings of 2-3 hits into other strings of 2-3 hits until you know you have to go for the knockdown. When they're crouching, you can combo into 5H/2H without launching via 6P, then go into Stroke(S) > 5K > HCL (and applicable follow ups after this if you want). It also helps to learn by weight class. A lot of the time you'll have strings that work on all lightweights, then all mid weights, and then all heavyweights, as well as stuff like openers that work meterless on lightweights all the time, mid weights on Counter Hit, and heavies when using an FRC or something like that. Once you categorize all that in your head (really doesn't take that much work), you can remember the special cases, like Sol and OS being a pain to combo 6P > 5H, and Faust not getting comboed by 5K > HCL unless he's in the air. Oh, so far I've noticed that anti-air 5P/6P > c.S > VCL > 6FRC6 > FFVCL is working on everyone I'm practicing it on. You just have to spend meter to get follow ups out of it in most cases (except if that pushes them into the corner) by doing 5K > HCL > 6FRC6, except that I've noticed I can link the FFVCL into 5H on Bridget if the anti-air hits high enough! Anyway, yeah... that damage... I want +R so much right now. *Edit* Well actually yeah, I guess there is a universal combo. At most ranges you can do 2K > 2S > 2D > HCL. It's not very strong but you get knockdown > oki. That's how I had to start out for the longest time, against people that could already hit 50% with their combos. Life is so much more fun now that I can 5K > HCL > 6FRC6.

I had the same reaction with the music.

Hm... against what character? I'm guessing you tested against someone with a neutral guard balance. That also reminds me that GB+ is cut in half when applied to someone already in blockstun, which is something I didn't even hear about until recently. But if that's true, then the GB+/- for FB note would be way higher than normally dictated by attack level. Anyway, YEAH, that's definitely worth the meter. Holy shit. Is that off of a 2K > 6P highly prorated start or an unprorated starter, and who is it against? The extra time they're blocking from the 6 hits is like dealing with Millia's FBdisc, so we get to run more than one mixup before going into a blockstring into another mixup.

TK note recovers faster than regular note (44 frames vs 50 frames) and the FRC window is bigger+earlier (16-21 vs 22-23). Grounded note FRC still has uses though. To make the notes rise/fall faster, tap the stick repeatedly instead of holding it. It took me forever to realize that.