Kaizen

Flabbergasted that this thread doesn't exist already (couldn't find one, anyway). Gundam Versus before Gundam Versus was a thing. Unique control scheme, blistering speed, extremely technical, sweet in every aspect. I love it. You should too. http://youtu.be/nZ66JMTQ8XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_jyEBs2_Bs http://youtu.be/9eb490xU7h4 http://youtu.be/tqgFqsZ1u8E

Actually you'll get 3 orbs. Zappa's FB gives you 2 souls on hit now.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20218291 I've been seeing you talk about how much of a scrub Jonio is lately. I think his Sol is entertaining but goddamn the guy drops the dumbest shit in like, every game I see him play.

Spoilers:

Arvoyea already said he'd help with Sol, but if under any circumstances he isn't able to, or you need additional input, I can also help greatly with Sol. I have some knowledge of Order Sol as well, if that helps.

I haven't played Overture since late 2011 and I don't have any incentive to renew my XBL. The game is great, and I had some good folks to play against when I did play online, but I've got other things to focus on. I'd rather play GG2 over GGX, but AC is always my go to game. I don't think they're on Dustloop, but if you're looking for some good US GG2 players, search for Lorsavasus and FireBookDuo. Those two are, I believe, both still actively playing and they seem to draw a small gathering of other skilled players.

Koogy I am absolutely in love with this red In Dust We Trust shirt. The only reason I didn't buy from the first printing is because I wasn't too fond of the colors. Another design I've always wanted on a shirt is the one that Circuitous mentioned years ago when Brokentier was just starting up: the XX Skull logo, like the one in my avatar. GOD I would buy it in a heartbeat. I've still got the original pic saved if you'd like to see it.

No, I think I'll only California Burst just to spite you.

Pretty sure I've seen a couple players go for at least one rep after Grand Viper or Fafnir (with 1 rep = 2 j.Ds in a single jump), into j.D Sidewinder. Doesn't look like D-Loop is nearly as dominating as it used to be due to the health increase and j.D's damage nerf, but like it still has its place pre-SW loop.

Found something interesting. Since you can clean hit a Fafnir out of an airthrow against lightweights, and since you can cancel into Fafnir now, I tried doing Airthrow > f.S (RC) Fafnir. Sure enough, it clean hits against a bunch of characters. However, a lot of them have height restrictions and the combo is kind of hard, so you might not care. But if you want to tag on an extra 100+ damage out of an airthrow that's not right in the corner, then you'd better practice up! (Sure, this won't work midscreen in +R, but in AC it's all fair game regardless of position). Airthrow, Fafnir (Burst throw height): May, Baiken, Anji, Jam, Bridget. Airthrow, Fafnir (Right off the ground): Chipp, Dizzy, I-no, Zappa...May, Baiken, Anji, Jam, Bridget. Leads to damage ranging from ~160-210. Airthrow, f.S (RC in AC) FB Fafnir (Sol's maximum single-jump-height throw): Sol, Testament, Robo, Order-Sol. Airthrow, f.S (RC in AC) FB Fafnir (Burst Throw height): Axl, Slayer...Sol, Testament, Robo, Order-Sol. Airthrow, f.S (RC in AC) FB Fafnir (Right off the ground): Johnny, Venom, Eddie, ABA, Ky...Axl, Slayer...Sol, Testament, Robo, Order-Sol. Leads to damage ranging from ~150-170. Impossible (from my results): Pot, Millia, Justice. Pot and Justice's clean hitboxes are too high; it'll OTG before you're at the proper height to do it. Millia falls too far away for any of these setups to work. For the f.S [RC] Fafnir, you'll want to have the opponent as close to the ground as possible, or have an extremely minor delay between the f.S and Fafnir.

Two more things I noticed. The frame data lists FB Sidewinder as an overhead, though I remember the shitty google translation of the Livedoor wiki stated something along the lines of it not being an overhead. Either that, or it was something relating to Sidewinder not being able to hit crouching opponents anyway. It'd be nice if some Sol players actually went out of their way to test something like that (you know, kinda testing something that Sol might need to actually land a hit). Second, the gatling table says that f.S cancels into 6H? I could have sworn it was c.S only, but f.S actually sounds better. Open with f.S 6H Fafnir. Good stuff.

Oh hey I can actually go this week. Cool.

That seems about right. Good work. I ended up getting c.S to work on Slayer, too. I haven't been testing BR loops much lately (been busy with transfer applications), but I have been screwing around with some odd confirms for the last two days. For example, if you Bandit Revolver mid pressure and the second hit lands while they're crouching and right in your face, you have a modestly easy confirm into 5k2d HSVV/Tyrant Rave/GV RC launch (lightweights)/ and 5k5h Fafnir in +R. If you dash into the Bandit Revolver or carry enough momentum, you can generally confirm into 5k5h Grand Viper, which means 200+ on pretty much everybody. Since Bandit Revolver goes over a lot of stuff, it's a good opener if you know the opponent is going to start with a laggy, lower poke (like I-no's 2H, for instance), or if they're going to try to instant block Gunflame. It's rare, but it's worth knowing. On standing hit, however, the move is unsafe (what). Hopefully the 1 frame faster recovery in +R is worth something! Another thing I've noticed is that no notable Sol players I watch open with 6P. It beats a bunch of common opening moves, like Ky's f.S, Pot's f.S, and Sol's 5H, and can combo meterless from midscreen with finesse. It even beats some moves you might not expect, like Baiken's 2S and Pot's 2P. If you delay it a bit, you can go into Bandit Bringer on counter hit (this works anywhere, unlike GF IAD j.H SW, or 2S(whiff) dash, relaunch, which only work near the corner). In order to properly combo, you should input your dash the moment you land and hold it (6[6]). You've also got some more optimal, character specific followups. Examples: Lightweights, Anji: CH 6P 2S (whiff), dash 5K/c.S 2H j.S/H SW, 7.SW, dash 2H 8.SW, BR. ~190-210 damage. Dash 5k is recommended for ease of use. C.S is only slightly more difficult to land and gives a minor damage increase. Almost universal (lightweight recommended): CH 6P (moderate delay) Bandit Bringer, dash 5k 2h j.S/H SW, dash j.S SW, nj.S SW, BR. ~180-220 damage. The third sidewinder requires you jump straight up. Middleweights: CH 6P (moderate delay) Bandit Bringer, dash 5k 2h j.S/H SW, c.S BR. ~160-200 damage. Does less, but puts them in the corner. Substitute the dash 5K with dash c.S against Slayer, Axl, and other characters characters with low profile slides that make 5K whiff. Faust and Pot: CH 6P (slight delay) Bandit Bringer, GV, j.D SW, 7SW, c.S 5H jSK SW, c.S(2H) BR. ~ 200 on Pot, ~240 on Faust. For the Grand Viper, mash enough that you would normally get 4 or 5 hits. Sol and Ky recommended (BB is extremely difficult to land due to their falling animations): CH 6P (major delay), GV, dash j.D SW, dash c.S 2H tk.9SW, 5K/c.S BR. ~200-230 damage. Delay inputting Grand Viper until they're about to bounce off the wall. Mash GV like you would in the combo listed above. Stronger variation of the above: CH 6P (major delay), GV, dash j.D SW, dash j.S SW, nj.S SW, BR. ~220-260 damage. Still gotta do some more testing, but even though 6P isn't the best in AC, it just keeps getting closer to one of my favorite pokes. With BB causing floor bounce again and 6P having the hitstun buff, these are probably going to become better in +R. Also, a note about CH 6P 2S (whiff). Since 2S recovers so quickly (same recovery speed as 2K), you can input your dash near the end of it and run almost immediately. Then you dash in and 5K/c.S 2H j.S SW loop. This will work when you space 6P against everybody, but against some characters, 2S will hit and end up ruining your combo. Thus, when 2S whiffs up close, this will work well when you land a CH 6P amid a frame trap. 2S will whiff up close against: Millia, Eddie, Axl, Chipp, Testament, Bridget, Faust, I-no, Slayer, Anji, Jam, Dizzy, Zappa, and ABA.

Dragon Install used to gain a duration increase once you dropped below half (210 health). Is there any word on whether that has changed, since everybody's health has been bumped up to 460? Seems like it might be significant, seeing as how more and more Sol players are starting to experiment with it seriously. Furthermore, is the duration gain static based on how much health you had when you used the move, or does it change based on taking damage mid-DI? In other words, the formula for DI duration is 360 frames + (210 - Current HP if health is < 210)frames. If I use DI at exactly 210 health, and then proceeded to take 50 points of damage during DI, would the duration increase to 410 frames, or remain at 360? It seems silly and would be entirely impractical to rely on if the latter were the case, but hey, you never know.

Needed more Jewpuncher.

Goodnight, sweet prince.

Thanks.

VIRTUAL ON MMs GOGOGO

Yeah 6P having more hitstun is a godsend. That extra 2 frames on grounded hit, plus extending that to an air hit (as opposed to just acting like a level 3, which only has 14f of hitstun) seriously opens up a lot of combo options. As awesome as 2K6P was in #R and Slash, I honestly kind of like having 2K 6P work as a frame trap, since you're going from a low to something which is going to make anybody who tries to poke out eat something fierce. Midscreen CH 6P on Millia to 2S (whiff cancel) dash c.S2H j.S SW |> dash 2H j.S SW |> 2H tk8.SW |> 2H BR does over 270 damage.

Did some more testing. Haven't tried your general airthrow combo yet, but sounds cool. I'll probably stick to 5K2H HSVV though, because it's safer. On Robo Ky, airthrow c.S 6P HSVV is definitely better than what I was doing. I did manage to get airthrow 5K(1) j.BR(3) [c.S j.BR(3)]x2 5K(1) j.BR(3) for 92 damage and almost 75% meter at max pulse. On Johnny, I can't connect a tkBR out of 5K or cS, unfortunately. However, the combo I posted earlier, 5K(1) j.KSD HSVV does 97. Turns out you can get the c.S on Eddie out of airthrow, but it's pretty tight timing and 5K is much easier. I'm starting to notice patterns on whether BR hits twice or thrice now. It has to do with four things: weight class, character height, distance BR was tiger knee'd from the ground, and whether the BR was normal or super jumped. There are plenty of instances where I have to decide between doing a j.BR as close to the ground as possible, or delaying a sj.BR after leaving the ground. There are instances where I'm getting 3 hits by inputting BR after jumping instead of tiger knee'ing. Lightweights are the easiest to get 3 hits BRs and multiple launches on. On corner air throws, it is extraordinarily easy to go into this. Simply dash in, 5K(1) j.BR, [c.S j.BR(3)]x2/3, 5K(1) BR/j.BR. You'll want to do c.S with the opponent as close to the ground as possible before going for the BR. j.BR vs. sj.BR doesn't seem to make too much of a difference. You can also do these by dash in 5K, 5Kc.S, 2H, etc. As long as the move/string doesn't push you out to far, and you're still carrying your dash momentum, you can go into tk.BR pretty easily. On Baiken, out of an airthrow, this built about 84% meter (max pulse) and did about 142 damage. I'm still testing on other weight classes, but here's a list of them for reference. Lightweight (gravity rating x1.10): May, Baiken, Jam, Bridget Welterweight (gravity rating x1.05): Millia, Dizzy, I-no Middleweight (gravity rating x1.00): Sol, Ky, Axl, Chipp, Faust, Eddie, Testament, Anji, Venom, Slayer, Zappa Heavyweight (gravity rating x.98): Johnny, ABA, Order Sol Super Heavyweight (gravity rating x.94/.95): Potemkin, Robo Ky

Just wait until there's training mode. Nobody wants to touch DI because even with its buffs, it's still a terrible move, but once people take some time to figure out, it might see usage as extended kill combos (imagine if combos used during DI sealed burst, like BBCP overdrive). Hell, watching Roi go into DI and go for DUST instead of Sol's AMAZING NEW DI OVERHEAD made me My favorite changes thus far, though: -6P hitstun buff on both ground and air hit. Better corner throw and airthrow combo options, no more stupid "6P against jump out, get nothing" bs. -c.S even on block. Better for frame traps and blockstrings. -FB sidewinder. SW loop out of random jump ins, Air to airs (jK) or j.Ds for only 25%. -Fafnir throw invlun. until active. No more getting thrown during throw baits. -BB clean hit. Ridiculous damage double GF BB to SW loop. -HS Fafnir working off of CH f.S, 2H, and 5H. Actual combo confirmation rather than just poke and hope for counter hit, otherwise nothing. -DUSTLOOP

Seems like you can c.S everybody except Johnny, Robo, Pot, Slayer, Venom, Zappa, and Eddie (Bridget pushes you out pretty far so you need to dash in). The best I can do to most characters is c.S j.SKD j.B |> 5K(1)2H HSVV, and it's ranging between 109 and 148 damage, averaging 118 or 123, and it works on pretty much everybody not included above. Extreme lightweights (May, Jam, Bridget, Kliff), and Millia and Dizzy require either a delay before the c.S, or some sort of variation of the above combo, like omitting j.K or using 5K(1) j.P/K j.S VV instead of 5K(1)2H HSVV. 5K(1) j.KSD j.BR |> 5K(1)2H HSVV works on Eddie, Slayer, and Zappa, and on Venom but it's really strict. It works on Pot if you use j.PSD instead of j.KSD. I can't get anything better than 5k2H HSVV on Robo or 5K j.KSD HSVV on Johnny though... As for BR, I'm still not quite sure about any sort of formula or guideline for getting all three hits, but I did manage to get 5K,c.S j.BR(3) |> [c.S j.BR(3)]x4 to work on I-no (straight from the ground, not off an airthrow). It gives about 55-60% meter normally and it built about 90-93% at max pulse.

Does anybody know what constitutes whether Aerial/TK'D Bandit Revolver does three hits versus only two? I'm trying to come up with some BR loops that capitalize off of it because aerial Bandit Revolver builds a shitload of meter. At max tension pulse (excluding slashbacks and instant blocks), I can airthrow I-no in the corner and do c.S j.S j.K j.D j.BR |> 5K(1) j.P j.S VV TK and build about 50% meter. In comparison, Airthrow to c.S j.BR (3) x 4 builds close to 80% meter instead.

Shoutouts to going for 2H mid pressure and getting VV instead and losing 60%. Ya'll need to show up to Friday night casuals before the coming end of the month. Besides, if the world ends on Friday, then we go out playing GG. Doesn't sound too bad.

First, I think we should establish that proration is different than scaling, because a lot of people seem to confuse the two. Anyway... Proration is a damage reduction that is attached to a move and applies to the rest of the combo, that activates when the move is used to start a combo. This means that AC j.S, with its 90% prorate, causes all moves following to only deal 90% their general damage. This means that if we simply did j.S j.D, ignoring the guard bar and assuming we're hitting a character with a 1.00 defense modifier, j.D would only do 36 damage as opposed to its usual 40. If scaling were not present in GG, then in AC+R, the j.D following the j.S would do a full 40 damage because the prorate is gone. Prorates are usually attached to lows, quick moves, moves with extreme damage outputs, or general ease of use. Scaling is, in Guilty Gear, how much guard bar a move takes away on hit. Since a reduction in the guard bar below neutral/0 causes all moves' damage to drop, this is why combos start to go down to damage of 1 per hit once you get past a certain point. It's why, even if you do a basic string like c.S 2S 2D BR, the Bandit Revolver does far less damage than it would by itself. Since this scaling only goes into effect when the guard bar goes below neutral, putting an opponent in block pressure and then opening them up deals more damage if they didn't faultless. The guard bar still needs to drop down to the point where scaling will activate. Both of these can apply at the same time, and scaling will always apply once the guard bar drops past 0 (since it ranges from 128 to -128). That's why if you do j.S j.D, the j.D does around 32 damage, but j.K j.D makes the j.D do 36 damage instead. Both j.K and j.S have the same scaling (GB -7), but j.S has the prorate. Now that it's gone, j.S is pretty much the superior air-to-ground in every aspect, and j.K goes back to being generally useless. One more thing to consider is forced proration, which is kind of like a combination of both prorates and scaling. Forced prorates go into effect regardless of where a move with a forced prorate is used. It's why Sidewinder, with its 70% forced prorate, is a terrible move to start a combo with, but also why SW doesn't do 100% every time you loop it. Even though SW does increasing damage with every clean hit, the force prorate keeps it from getting out of hand. To put it in perspective, SW loop without scaling or proration would make the 4th Sidewinder in a loop deal 110 damage. Think about that for a second. That's why I think it's so awesome that BB doesn't have a forced prorate. You're basically getting the last hit of Grand Viper into your combo without any of the previous hits scaling as hard, and for much higher damage. Every other move with a clean hit on it has a prorate too: Sidewinder and Fafnir are 70% forced, and Grand Viper has an 80% prorate, plus all the scaling from the first hits. Bringer also does 50 base damage, so if you start without that 66% prorate being forced, you're potentially shoving around 60-90 something damage in plus storing two clean hits before you're even near a forced prorate. Example: corner c.S 6P GF FRC BB|> GF FRC BB |> 2H j.D SW loop is going to . So, short summary: -Moves with prorates reduce the damage of all following hits in a combo down to that level. e.g. a 60% prorate makes all moves in the combo do 60% normal damage -Scaling reduces the damage in all combos, along with reducing hitstun and increasing gravity, being GG's main infinite prevention system. -Forced prorates reduce following damage, regardless of where in the combo a move was used. -Both scaling and prorates go into effect at the same time. -Bandit Bringer has hilarious potential. -Riot Stomp should clean hit and then maybe it wouldn't be a total piece of shit.