kro_

Looks like they improved all versions of her j.214 moves. No wallbounce on 22d makes me sad though. Slightly off topic, but I thought you guys might enjoy these screenshots from ffxiv open beta: 1 2 3 4 5 6 I saw a Noel Vermilion earlier but forgot to take a pic.

.... You know what? I'm just gonna ignore this thread till the patch actually comes out.

I'll prob be there Thursday night to practice.

Real talk: I had more fun playing GG than BB. Shout outs to shin, jason, and others for good matches. Good shit to sev and zong for clearly being a step above the rest in BB. Got some motivation to practice now. Sloppiest match ever in a tournament with my Mu and Makoto_Camaro. Arcade patch cannot come soon enough. Sucks not being able to practice there. Nice seeing Mike, Ike, Seung, Raptor, TRONZILLA666, and anyone else I missed again. Thanks again to Nathan and the recording crew for running.

Mash harder but don't get carried away. Mash extra hard during the points where you think they can screw up the combo.

The charged D's won't fire because of the laser if you do it fast. If you delay it a bit the 236d laser won't track the steins, but if it doesn't track the steins then you will be vulnerable to counterattack. Charged D's outside of a knockdown situation aren't bad, but it's more of a zoning kind of thing rather than a setup. Good for baiting turtles into action. As for trying to keep the 236d laser going for as long as possible, I like doing that too. 5d 6d 236d dash 6d 5d jc j.6d j.2d actually combos on a standing opponent for 6 hits. You can airdash immediately after placing the last stein into j.c or empty airdash into 2b. However, I think most characters can crouch under the lasers. 5d 6d 236d 6d 5d is usually good enough to set up for any kind of mixup anyway.

^Not sure what you are trying to do with the 2b 623c. Although it stuffs neutral tech sledge on wakeup, it doesn't do much damage and 623c isn't safe on block. Couldn't you just wait and hit confirm the explosion or punish A sledge by doing jump back j.c into a full combo? 4d 5d 214d does work well on Tager though. Interesting tidbit about 214d: If you have 1 stein on the opponent and 1 stein behind the opponent, you can add up the block stun or hit stun of the explosions by dashing forward and pushing the opponent toward the second explosion. Ex: 5d 4d 214d. Opponent gets hit by the 5d explosion so dash and push him into the 4d and you will get the full 6 hits of damage.

^ I like how every combo starts from 5b and uses 50 meter or 2+ winds. On a serious note, ending with 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a instead of 6c8d saves you 1 wind for a small sacrifice in damage. And ending with 3c into pumpkin instead of 6c saves 1 wind and gives knockdown/oki for a larger sacrifice in damage. But those are good combos when you have the meter and are much more practical than dashing momentum neutral jump crossup lvl 3 j.2c's. They also do a little more damage than just plain double lobelia combos. The combos in the OP are merely a transcript of that old combo video. Some of those setups are pretty impractical, but you can still get a good idea of what Rachel can do by looking at it - especially the things that add extra damage to her combos (like j.c 2d dj j.2c, multiple lobelias after BBL, and ending combos with 6c). I think gog (sp?) was working on a combo list/guide. If people want to contribute, try and narrow down the combo lists to the essentials (i.e. best meterless and 50 meter combos for every starter + oki and max damage finishers) and I'm sure Soniti will update the first post. The 50 meter combos posted above by Geno are a good start. See if those still work with starters like 2b, 4b, j.b, and j.2c 236a (pumpkin) 5d. If not, try to find alternatives. It seems like there's still quite a few people that are looking for combos and the MaDao combo video can be kind of intimidating.

I use the 3c 6[d] setup a lot. On neutral tech, you can do meaty 6b like you said. You can also do meaty 2b 5b (laser hits) 6b for a no gap overhead. The one I like most is meaty 2b 5b IAD forward (laser hits as you crossup) j.2c into j.6d oki. On forward roll, the options are pretty much the same as neutral tech except that you need to do a 3 attack meaty string before the laser hits instead of 2. On backwards roll, I do dash 6c (laser hits). If they get hit by the 6c, you can combo into 214d and follow up with IAD j.c j.2c. If they block, then 6c (laser hits) 6d 236d keeps them locked down long enough to rush in. They will be stuck between the two 6d steins you set up earlier. The weakness is quick rise. Ragna can quick rise 5b fast enough to stuff anything you do, but you are still able to block or backdash out.

I don't see why anyone thinks this is remotely close to even. You can approach this matchup the way a zoning CT Rachel would. Set up traps and fish for counter hits. Stay at a range where nothing but B sledge or spark bolt can reach you. Throw out a couple steins in such a position that an explosion will land if he stands still or tries to jump forward. You can do this easily with 6d 4d or 5d 4d IAD back. If he blocks, set up those steins again and either a) detonate again or b) jump back and wait to punish his B sledge. If he blocks while in the air, you can do 4d 214d safely immediately because he has to be on the ground to sledge. If he does spark bolt while you detonate, you get a fairly even trade in damage and he loses his meter. Then just backdash or walk back and wait out the magnetism. DP eats B sledge and 2d on reaction and sends him flying back to square one. At full screen range when he has no spark bolt meter, charged steins can whittle away his guard primers fairly easily. Basic 5c 5d jump back j.c footsies and the threat of 6c FC should be really difficult for him to break. Rushdown with 236d laser oki setups is not totally out of the question either.

Tsubaki should never be able to gain charge meter except after knockdowns due to steins. Her non-D shield charge is completely unsafe on block. If IBed, you can get whatever combo you want. If not, you might be able to punish depending the range and strength of the shield charge she used, but you should always be at the advantage in terms of starting your own pressure. If she use the D version, remember that it is safe and places her behind you. However, you can DP or backdash right after. Mu can block on reaction while setting up steins because steins are jump cancelable. A long-range shield charge is slow, not like Lambda's swords. The thing to remember about Tsubaki's 5b is that she cannot get extra damage from a max range 5b unless she lands a CH. Similar thing with her IAD j.c. If she hits j.c right away, it's not going to combo into her ground string unless she does it late or has plenty of charge meter near the corner. Play a half-decent footsies game and you can keep her out with just normals. Block low. The proration on Tsubaki's overhead is pitiful. One thing Tsubaki has going for her is the projectile-immunity on her 22b. It blocks projectiles for the duration of the charge AND the attack so following up a projectile with normals isn't always going to be safe. But then again, it's only 1 hit + knockback. Nothing to fear, really. Tsubaki has a great anti-air, charged 22d is unblockable, and her corner throws can lead to a lot of damage with install combos. These are her strengths so play a style that avoids these situations and abuse her poor risk/reward ratio in everything else.

The only major changes I can see are moving Arakune and Jin up a bit. What else is wrong with it?

At least Lambda/Hazama tier. At most Hakumen/Carl tier.

Dropped by for a little while to check out the new setups and played some guys with Hazama. They are beautiful. Even the chair is comfy. Can't make the tourney on Sunday but gonna try to make the next.

Just spam steins. She won't be able to summon a damn thing. If she tries and you actually want to deal damage, 6c FC.

I played around with this a little bit and found out that you can still force the cross up again by buffering her super into the crossup 2b. What I've been trying lately is: 5b 2b 3c 2b 5c 6c dash 2b whiff crossup Then 5b 3c 2b 5c 6c delayed 214d 5c 6c 5d dash up 2b 632146c If they don't tech, 2b will combo directly into super for like 4.7k. If they do tech, you cross them up and super doesn't come out. I just do 5c after 214d instead of the 6b 6a because I find it unreliable against some characters and it's only 100-200 dmg less. Tried this a bit and it seems like a pretty fun mixup. I set the computer to jump right after the emergency tech and Mu can actually airthrow even when her back is turned to the opponent. Just 2d crossup jump back delay BC. Another trick is a double overhead: 2d crossup jump back low j.c (2d laser hits) 6b. The laser from the 2d stein makes it so that if j.c hits, it combos straight into 6b. Also 2d crossup jump back j.b (2d laser hits) djc forward j.b. Just another annoying way to switch sides again if your opponent starts getting used to the crossup. Easy way to escape is just jump and watch for the airthrow though. So I don't know how effective this will end up being.

If it's max range 3c and you manage to combo it into the blue shadow 214d~c, then yes you need to dash. However, if you are not at max range you can skip the dash and just 5c. If you want to end that combo with a 623d that combos into portal super, standing still or actually taking a step back after 214d~c is necessary.

In order to avoid TK j.236c, make sure that you are inputting 259 rather than 2369. All 3 hits of the 6cc followup do not need to connect so simply doing 259 j.c as soon as that part starts should work every time. This. The first jump is diagonal, the second jump is vertical. Jumping forward twice screws up the angle.

Gonna try some of these tomorrow.

Yeah, I forgot to mention it was only on neutral techs. I've been trying to come up with something that can cover all options but forward rolls always seem to get out of it. Best thing I can think of is to just set 2 steins and IAD back. Then do a block string that pushes the opponent back into the steins and detonate.

Some stuff I've tried though actually haven't tested against IBs: Ground combo ending in 3c > 6[d] or Air combo ending in j.2c > 5[d] Then just do a meaty attack into high/low and the charged laser should cover you as long as they neutral tech or roll right away. Can probably avoid the setup if they stay down and tech at the last second though. Also, something like 3c 2b 5c 6c > 5d 6d 236d. The first laser will keep them locked down on wakeup if they emergency tech and go back and forth two more times. There are gaps so you can do stuff reminiscent of Dizzy ice fish pressure with throws and such. After a corner super, 2d 5d jump forward. You can do j.b for high, empty jump 2b for low, or barrier to bait dp while the two tiny lasers cover you. The good thing about this setup is that you can cancel a blockstring into 214d (5d and 2d explosions prevent jumping out of pressure) and use the frame advantage to go for another mixup. Maybe something like IB into carnage scissors can get out of this but yeah, who's gonna do that?

Airdash D~BC

I think it just means the amount of block stun you get from doing a particular drive move. So if you subtract the startup of the next move you're going to do from the move you just did you'll have the frame advantage. So going from d.6c > d.5b should be +5 or higher if it is to be safe when IBed. This should also mean that 5D -> 5A, 6B -> 5A, 6A -> 5A, j.4D->5A, and 6C->5A are all +0-5 if they are safe when normal blocked. I didn't double-check though. No, the blockstring is tight if they don't instant block. However, there's pretty much nothing you can do after d.5a that is airtight except flash kick. I usually use chain revolver pretty heavily when I play Noel. The windows to reversal are smaller, d.5a can mess up the timing, and few characters can actually punish a blocked d.5b. It's a lot safer than it used to be, but then again most opponents will just block everything since j.2d is no longer an overhead and wait for the string to end before trying to counterattack.

Well if you want to find the most practical combos, there are always character specific threads. But I think the character specific challenges do a pretty good job of helping you find out what a character is capable of doing. I've finished the challenges for 6 characters so far and I've noticed that there are always a few combos that start from an anti-air, overhead, or hit-confirmable counter hit. Look at those combos a few times and you'll notice patterns like "this move lets me turn any ground string into that air combo I know how to do" or "finishing a combo this way puts me in a good position." After that, it's just a matter of finding various ways to land those combo fragments you are comfortable performing even in an online environment. For example, Ragna wants to end every combo with belial edge into dash 5d 22c so look for ways to do that. The good thing about those later challenges is that they really push the combo system to its limit. Like, I didn't know that you could do 4 reps of Noel's 6c 22B 22BC off of fatal counter hit and still end it with the standard chain revolver combo into super. Or that cutting one of Tsubaki's air combos short allows her to do a relaunch. Or the fact that you have to wait a second after Hazama's 6d so that the character moves far enough for 623d to combo into portal super. Those are the kinds of things that you probably can't pull off or learn online but you can if you play and practice a lot locally. Arcsys did a really good job with the tutorial and challenge mode here. You could never visit a fighting game website and still come out as a fairly knowledgable player just by studying everything Rachel tells you in tutorial mode. They ease you in with a bit of easy stuff for awhile but they actually go on to teach you higher level tactics like option select blocking and baiting a throw reject miss with a jab into purple throw. I wish marvel, 3s, and gg had these kinds of things back when I started playing fighters seriously. So don't feel bad if you can't do everything because it means you'll be that much better in execution when you can. And take advantage of advance input (holding the button a little to repeat the input for 5 frames) since it removes a lot of the headaches involved with timing and lets you put more emphasis on combo positioning, spacing, and intentional delays.

It's pretty bad. After every 6cc into the standard air combo finisher, most Tsubaki players will try to charge at least 1 bar. However, doing this puts her in a position where she has no choice but to just drop down into the opponent's pressure because she's so high up and doesn't have any jumps left to change momentum. This is really bad especially against people with decent anti-air normals like Ragna. You can remedy this by not double jumping and ending the combo early, but then you're sacrificing guaranteed damage on an already low damage character just to avoid being put under pressure after replenishing the charge meter you just used up. Similar problems with ending ground combos too. Try to charge up any more than 1 bar after a 22c and you've got Ragna, Litchi, and Bang running at you ready to outprioritize you with their 5b's and 5a's