kro_

Well, the point of using 6db is that the wind pushes you close enough to 5b immediately after 6b without having to dash forward again. So it should work if you 5b as soon you recover. The timing is just tighter than usual.

If you know you're going to land a far 6b CH, try doing 66db link 5b. Don't forget to hold 5b a bit to take advantage of the 5 frame input buffer.

Doing 4d 236d before the haida loop does do a bit more damage - 5060 dmg It also seems to space things perfectly so that you don't have to dash after bloom trigger. Just walk forward a bit 6c 22b 22bc.

Just tried this: 3c 22bc [66c 22b 22bc]x2 66c 4d 236d 66c 5d 6b 5c j.d 6d 5b 236d - 4970 dmg; 5870 with super

I posted something here. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8230

Hazama eats Rachel for breakfast. Just like lambchops he can interrupt any summon very easily with chains. Chains fire at a faster rate than lobelias. His close range normals are faster and have fairly good frame advantage. His 3c has more range than any of her normals. Once he has meter, portal super will beat any of her grounded specials. Hotenjin trade prevents Rachel from doing her silly 236a pressure. Unlike wind, the limitation on chains is almost negligible. One of the few advantages that Rachel has is that it's difficult for Hazama to move away from lightning rods since he doesn't have a running jump. He can't use the chain to escape since Rachel can activate on reaction. This gives her opportunities to set up more rods or summon. j.236a/b can avoid portal super and are safe as he long as he gets hit or blocks. He doesn't have an easy way to kill the frog so a winded frog can give her more time to setup or try and land a slow mixup. 6a also prevents him from doing mindless D~D or D~C approaches. These things combined actually leave her somewhat capable of zoning him. Both characters are great at runaway, so whoever gets the life lead first could probably manage to time out the other without too much difficulty. This might be the reason they put it at 5-5. If Rachel plays a no risk game and just waits around ready to activate lightning, the wind limitation becomes less of a factor and Hazama will never get a chance to land his distortions. I still think it's Hazama's advantage though. Even though his damage output isn't amazing, it's still better. And unlike Rachel, he won't eat a full BnB's worth of damage for making small mistakes unless he's at point-blank range.

3c 22bc [66c 22b 22bc]x2 66c 5d 6b 5c j.d 6d 236d - 4600 dmg, +48 heat If the combo carries the opponent to the corner, add super at the end for 5500+ dmg. Here are a couple non-haida loop combos: 3c 22bc 66c 2d 623d 66c sj.d 6d 6b 5c 236d - 4100 dmg, +40 heat Easy to do and no special timing required. Works everywhere on everyone. 3c 22bc 66c 4d 236d 66c 5d 6b 5c j.d 6d 5b 236d - 4500 dmg, +47 heat Corner only, add super at the end for 5400+ Won't get as much if you start with something other than 3c though.

For the record, I actually agree that Jin has a better matchup against Rachel than Noel, but you are still making an arbitrary decision to change the values of the original. The matchup chart should be as objective as possible. Even if a normalized matchup chart is a lazy way to equalize the numbers, it does not add a subjective opinion to the original list. If the format of the normalized chart is bothersome, then I think posting the original (or at least a link on the first post) is better - even if the values don't add up 100%.

Yeah, that was the version I saw last time. The only problem is that in cases where matchups averaged out to .25 or .75, you rounded up in some cases and rounded down in others. Ex: Both the Noel and Jin players believe their matchups are 6-4 against Rachel while the Rachel player believes the matchups are 4.5-5.5 against Noel and Jin. If you average out the differences, both matchups would end up being 4.25-5.75 from Rachel's perspective. However, your chart rounds down for the Jin matchup (4-6) while it rounds up for the Noel matchup (4.5-5.5). I'm not really sure what determined whether you would round up or round down, but I think it would be worthwhile to keep that extra decimal space to have a more accurate picture of the matchup chart - especially since those minor differences affected the order of those B-tier characters. Sorry if it seems like I'm being nitpicky about this.

Would you mind posting a link to the original Arcadia matchup chart for reference? This list doesn't match what I've seen previously.

The guard wouldn't let us in the hospital by the time I got there but everything turned out great. Got a pic of my first nephew Also thanks to Zong for covering for me.

Sorry to Dacidbro for having to leave early. GGs and nice seeing you guys again. Not being able to practice CS on stick has been killing me. But a little more practice and exposure should fix things in time.

I'm picking up Dacidbro on Saturday. Probably be there around 3-4ish

ok I lol'd at ribbit glitch (Jin match round 4)

Hi. I finally did my own damage testing for once. Should have done this long ago. 50% meter, 1 wind 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a BBL (8 hits) (236a whiff) dash 3c (3 hits) 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4000 dmg If you don't space 6a BBL correctly (i.e. you only get 4 hits from Rachel), you can only whiff 1 pole in time. Works on everyone. 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a BBL (10 hits) (236a whiff x2) dash 3c (3 hits) 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4300 dmg If you do space 6a BBL correctly (i.e. you get 6 hits from Rachel), you can whiff 2 poles in time. Slightly harder. 5b 5cdc 214a dash 5b (236a x2) dash 6a BBL (14 hits) (236a whiff x2) dash 3c (3 hits) 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4300 dmg The 5b otg does more damage than the 3c otg due to proration and keeps the opponent high enough to whiff two seeds. Frog combo actually does slightly less than the 236b combo when going for BBL. 100% meter, 1 wind 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a BBL (8 hits) (236a whiff) dash 3c (3 hits) BBL (8 hits) 236a dash 3c (3 hits) 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4800 dmg 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a BBL (10 hits) (236a whiff x2) dash 3c (3 hits) BBL (12 hits) 236a dash 3c (3 hits) 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 5300 dmg For all of these combos, replace 6c with 3c if you want that knockdown into frog oki. However, you tend to lose a lot of damage. Better?

I agree with Veteru. I'd rather have BB there than not have it at all and I'm fine with playing either. There are tons of players I never got the chance to play in CT and EVO is a good chance to do this. It's just that since everyone is playing CS, the people that end up playing CT won't be playing their best because their training was directed elsewhere. So I guess it's already too late, huh? BB should have more entrants than whatever polled game makes it because of the wave of new sf4 players. I figured this was the main reason EVO decided to keep it in the lineup and I'm kind of surprised that the anti-BB sentiment on SRK actually got this bad. If people actually put in the effort to revitalize cvs2, or if it gives mbaa the chance to actually get a spot on the big screen, then go ahead and put CT away. I've played all of the previous big three and mb at local tournaments at one point or another so I'd be happy to get in on the fun. However, if the entire purpose of this 2nd option is to have a Choi vs Bas rematch and nobody ever plays cvs2 again, I will be severely disappointed.

Not necessary. As long as there's an updated CS combos thread and changes thread, what you can and can't do anymore should be pretty clear. Combos are fine for now, but we can't really finalize the changes without frame data.

cvs2 R.I.P.

I'd say that one of the most common pitfalls for Tsubaki's combos is getting used to when you are allowed to connect 6cc to j.c. Dropping that combo costs you a ton of damage and charge meter. My general rule of thumb is to only go for the 22d wallbounce into 6cc if the combo counter is 4 or less. Anything greater and the opponent techs. Also, super jumping straight up prevents j.236c from coming out accidentally.

I'm 'maining' like 5 different characters right now but since most tournaments are double elim I'll probably play Rachel at least once just because. Main reason I call it a double overhead is that there are two chances to go high/low with j.b: 1) right after 5b; 2) right before the dj. Ah, you're right on all accounts there. Should be fixed now. Thanks. That's true. So depending on how far you are from the corner you either have to use 3, 2, or 1 wind to set up the 5cc wallbounce into pumpkin/frog oki. Just a question of whether or not it's really worthwhile.

If it weren't for marvel, my execution would still be terrible and I'd have no concept of zoning beyond fireball/uppercut/sweep.

Earlier it was something about how MBAA beat all the odds and revived the fighting game scene singlehandedly. I wonder how many times that article is gonna get changed

Doublepost I took the liberty of putting a little asterisk (*) on combos that I felt were the most practical, but everything is there. Someone doublecheck them and see if the descriptions make sense. Also, anything that involves running under them and doing lvl 3 j.2c (i.e. combo 22) is hard. Much harder than anything she had in CT. I was pretty impressed at how he organized the combos well enough to categorize them.

Transcript and descriptions for Ma Dao combo video seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvF-4Va8CI 1) 0:00-0:04 2b 5b jc j.3db j.c 5b 6dc j.c 5b 3c 214a - 1735 dmg Starts with a low attack, pushes the opponent to the corner with 6c, ends with knockdown into frog oki. 2) 0:05-0:11 5b 2d jc j.b j.a dj j.b j.a j.b j.c 5b 5cdc 236b IAD j.b j.c j.214c land sj.c dj j.c - 1907 dmg Ghetto double overhead starter. Frog combos 3) 0:12-0:16* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1-hit) 236a (x2) 3c 214c 3c - 2760 dmg A frog BnB on 3c midscreen characters ending with knockdown. Requires 1 wind. 4) 0:17-0:21 5b 5cdc 214a 3cd (3 hit) 236a (x2) 3c 214c 3c A frog BnB variation for 3c corner-only characters like Ragna and Jin. 5) 0:22-0:28 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a (x2) 6a 214c sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a A frog BnB variation for non-3c characters like Hazama, Lambda, and Carl. 6) 0:28-0:33 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a 5cc 3c - ~2200 dmg Universal corner frog combo ending in 5cc wallbounce. 7) 0:33-0:38 5b 5cdc 214a 3c 236a 5cc (236a whiff) 3c Corner frog combo ending in 5cc wallbounce on 3c characters. Creates an extra pole. 8) 0:38-0:47* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a sj 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 3847 dmg A damaging frog BnB for 3c characters. Requires 3 winds. 9) 0:48-0:57 5b (6dc j.c x2) 5b 5cdc 214a 3c 236a (backup a bit) 5cc (236a whiff) 3c -~3600 dmg Combo that carries opponent to corner and ends with 5cc wallbounce on 3c characters. Requires 3 winds. 236b combos 10) 0:58-1:03* 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a 214c sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2740 dmg A universal 236b BnB. Uses 1 wind. 11) 1:03-1:07 5b 5cdc 236b dash 3d 5cc dash 3c - 1920 dmg 236b combo ending in 5cc wallbounce. Must be somewhat near corner. 12) 1:07-1:12 5b 5cdc 236b IAD j.214c 6c j.c dj j.c - ~2900 dmg 236b combo incorporating IAD sword iris to move closer while keeping up the combo. Throw combos 13) 1:12-1:16* b+c 7d dash 5b sj j.b j.a j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2237 dmg The old CT throw BnB. Uses 1 wind. 14) 1:17-1:21 b+c 5b 2d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2200 dmg Corner throw into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. 15) 1:21-1:27 b+c 7d dash 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2809 dmg Air combo extender after throw BnB. Uses 2 winds. Other 16) 1:27-1:32 6a 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2500 dmg Air combo extender after 6a. Uses 1 wind. 17) 1:32-1:38 3c (delay) 9d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2100 dmg Air combo extender after 3c. Uses 2 winds. 18) 1:38-1:44 3c (delay) 8d 5cc 236b dash 214c dash j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2000 dmg Alternative combo from 3c starter. Uses only 1 wind. 50% heat combos 19) 1:45-1:55* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a (x2) 6c j.c 1d land 632146c 236a (x2) dash 3c 214c 6c j.c jc j.c j.236a - 4350 dmg A frog to BBL BnB on 3c characters. Requires 2 winds. 20) 1:56-2:06 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a (x2) 6c j.c 1d land 632146c 236a (x2) dash 3c 214c 6c j.c jc j.c - 4270 dmg Same as above for non-3c characters. Just use 2b otg. 21) 2:08-2:22 5b 5cdc 214a (walk 1 step) 5b 236a (frog hits) dash 6c j.c land 632146c 214a 5cc (whiff 1st hit) dash 5b (frog hits) sjc 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 214a - 3669 dmg An advanced corner only frog combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Makes use of 5c whiff c wallbounce to refrog the opponent after BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Requires 3 winds but regens 2 winds during the combo. 22) 2:23-2:32* 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a32147d6c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4761 dmg An advanced midscreen 236b combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Uses 6a and 7d before BBL to increase opponent's height. Rachel then dashes under the opponent and uses the momentum to catch the opponent falling from BBL with lvl3 j.2c using just 1 wind. Requires 3 winds. More throw combo setups 23) 2:32-2:40 b+c 6d IAD 6d j.a j.c 1d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2300 dmg A midscreen throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 3 winds. 24) 2:40-2:45 b+c 9d dash 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~1900 dmg A somewhat near corner throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 1 wind. More 50% heat combos 25) 2:46-2:57 5b 5cdc 214a dash 6c (frog hits) j.236c land 6c j.c land 632146c sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 3c 214a - ~3900 dmg An advanced corner only frog combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c that uses only 2 winds and regens 1 during the combo. 26) 2:57-3:08 5b 3c (delay) 9d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4587 dmg 3c air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 17 and 22. Uses 3 winds. 27) 3:08-3:17 6a 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~4000 dmg 6a air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 16 and 22. Uses 2 winds. 28) 3:18-3:30 b+c 7d dash 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4377 dmg Throw air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 15 and 22. Uses 3 winds. 29) 3:31-3:39 6a 5b jc j.b j.[c] j.c dj j.c 632146c (dash under opponent) 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~2500 dmg Air combo into air BBL. Mainly demonstrates that j.c > hold c > j.c and air BBL will combo after j.c. 30) 3:40-3:48 2c CH 1d 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~4100 dmg Chair counterhit combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 2 winds. 31) 3:49-4:00* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a sj 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 6a32147d6c 236a (x2) 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c - 4869 dmg A damaging frog BnB into BBL for 3c characters. Requires 4 winds. 32) 4:01-4:11 air b+c 2d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4200 dmg Airthrow combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 3 winds. 33) 4:11-4:22 b+c 6d IAD j.b j.c 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 3820 dmg Alternative throw combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 2 winds. 34) 4:23-4:34 b+c 5b 2d 5cc 6c j.c land 632146c sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 3c 214a - 3450 dmg Corner throw combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 14 and 25. Uses 2 winds.

In case no one's noticed, there is a Rachel combo vid up now. Some major points of interest for upping her damage: 1) lvl 3 j.2c using only 1 wind after BBL 2) lots of 63214d6c 3) double lobelia into 3c sword iris every chance he gets 4) lots of 6c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvF-4Va8CI I'll get to work on transcribing the combos. If you guys are satisfied with how it turns out, then let's get it up on the first post.