whitevoid

I actually have changed my mind on the whole +/- system on tiers. I just don't see a point in breaking up a tier that would consist of 2-3 people. I mean, it's just 2-3 people. They are either S or they are not. I think it's okay to do it with A tier, but that's because there's like 6-9 characters in that tier, so it gives it a little bit more clarity. Creating a special sub-tier just for one character, seems nit-picky. But, feel free if you want to pick that nit. But I mean, S-, A+, S--, A and a quarter... I mean, it's hard enough to put meaningfully put characters into these vague classifications, we don't really need to go dissecting it any further than necessary.

Does anyone have any specific explosion set-ups? I'm trying to encorporate them more into my game.

After actually messing around with the match-up, I'm changing my opinion on Mu/Hazama to slight Hazama. Chains are faster than I remember. lol. And there is no reason why he can't be top 3 (i don't believe he is in any case), but having a design flaw doesn't really make a big difference. Unless if you just arbitrarily define top 3 as having "no design flaws" then yeah, sure for whatever that's worth. TBH, I'm thinking about just leaving S tier as Bang/Litchi, as no matter how good Ragna/Arakune are they aren't quite Bang/Litchi, and tossing them up to S tier is more just trying to come up with a vague range of power to define S then specifically relating them to being closer to Bang/Litchi than Carl/Hakumen, (i.e. they are closer in power to Carl/Hakumen then Bang/Litchi, so I keep them in A)

lolz. I'm not the only one that puts Ara at A tier. Just to be clear, I'm saying Mu has the advantage.

236A will block chains. So you can use the ground one to cover you while you set up in the air and vice versa. Of course, the move itself is too slow and will probably get you chained if you aren't very careful with it. But once you start getting steins up, the whole situation starts getting easy for you. It's just getting started... And you can cancel 6C into whatever, so I'm pretty sure blinding dashing in after it is a bad idea for Haz.

B unless if something major is revealed.

was messing around with 236A some, and to me it seems really good canceled off of setting steins. i don't really see it used much at all, so just wondering if it's something standard or if there are reasons to not do it.

To touch on an earlier point about Hakumen being S or A, I think he's firmly A tier due to having the worst meter management in the game. BnB nets him like -3 Orbs (-4, +1) which is like -40 meter or something? You can do a gatling for like +20. That's a full distortion in difference, and the better meter builders get nearly 50 meter of their combos. Of course, he has passive meter gain (and is just in general great), but when Ragna is finished with you he'll likely have 50 meter to burn to screw you over. Hakumen has to wait to generate that meter back. And it's that gap in his gameplay that keeps him from being S tier (actually he'd probably be godlike tier if he even came close to even on meter off his combos). Yeah, I think you're right. Maybe if he blocks a move with that... it auto-blocks and charges up his electric gauge, dunno the name. If he blocks a move with that it'd magnetize them. Once he gets them magnetized, he moves up quite a bit since he has better range. As for Mu... Feel like that's about right. Somewhere in B tier depending on where her damage ends up. Makoto, I feel will probably be somewhere in A tier. My tier list is... S Litchi S- Bang, Ragna A Hakumen, Carl, Arakune A- Tao, Lamda, Hazama, (Makoto?) B Jin, Noel, (Mu?) C Tager, Tsubaki C- Rachel Tier definitions are: S, Stupid Easy A, Stupid Good B, Good C, Playable

lol. Noel isn't even close to bottom tier. I don't know what you people are smoking.

if he's trying to counter you off of 214A then just throw him.

Tager has a pretty good mix-up game and solid damage. On paper, I'd actually put him in B tier. But in practice most characters can play around his game enough that the strength of his movelist doesn't translate to reality. Tsubaki or Rachel imo is more a question of the nature of the game rather than their individual characters. Even if Rachel is a stronger character on paper (which I would agree with), she's not strong enough to deal with mid-range types and is horrible if you get in her face. Tsubaki is at least faster so she can move in against mid-range and can deal with rushdown.

nvm

236A travels at a nice upward angle to cut off his air approach. of course, it's a free cut, but since it's up in the air it's not quite as easy for him to tank in it. probably not the best idea if he's already up at you though. If he's up-close just block low. His damage mids are seeable (Tsubaki, and Zenetsu? I think that's the name). 6B isn't so bad that you can't win while eating a few of them. If you're ducking, you he can't 5A you since you're too low (or it should, I believe). So now he's left with 2A which isn't nearly as good. Maybe 6B goes over it, I dunno. What the heck is 236C? You mean 41236C? 6A is probably faster, just not fast enough to do on reaction. If you see it just block it. He's just burning meter which means he's got to wait to threaten you for damage. As far as IADing over 6C is concerned in the 4C versus 6C thing, you could say the same for 4C.

4C really isn't all that huge huge an issue, imo. Mostly because it does crap for damage. He'd have to hit you with like 10 CH 4Cs to equal the damage you get off a FC 6C. So the risk/reward is still in your favor. Also you can set up steins behind him, which limits his ability to cut. Still a bad match-up, but just some thoughts.

nice. format looks good. 6A also combos into 5B adds like another 300 I think. 5A, Gurren, 623AA. (ch) 2A and (ch) 5A gatling into 6A.

Could you do a reset with 623D? According to the frame data it freezes them for 55, is unblockable after 50, and starts up 8 frames after releasing the button. So they recover at 55, you hit them with an unblockable at 58, and they don't even have time to jump. The damage counter is reset and more importantly so is the Freeze Count.

That's like saying Haku can't just jC/4C the entire match against Tager. Or Hazama can't spam Ouroboros. Sure, that's not literally going to be the whole match-up against him (or it'd be like 7-3 or worse). But the fact is most of the time HE has to get in, and you can just sit back and be reactive. So yeah, why not set-up more stein? Or sit back and spam Ouroboros or jC? It's not like he's Ragna or Bang and he's going to rush you down or anything. The risk/reward factor just isn't there (unless you're Bang or Ragna). She can what now!? My basic thoughts are Swords deal damage, Lasers don't. So assuming that they both can play their game, random Swords hits give her an edge because they do more damage then random Laser hits. But that's an exceptionally simplified look at the match-up, but those were my thoughts on it.

that's when you bait the throw. of course, 0 block stun is pretty bad all the same. and why in god's name would you run up and try to jab Tager anyways? I mean what exactly are you expecting to happen?

He probably just did it so he'd be safe if they blocked it.

awesome stuff. i love the resets.

Even if he techs with the right stein set-up they'll still be shooting when he recovers forcing him to block. There is an intial laser shot, and then the bounces so you don't need to do early. You could even do it in response to a tech. I was thinking more 5.5/4.5 tbh. I don't think she's as good as Hakumen in the match-up, and it'd be hard for me to believe that she is better than him in the match-up.

don't really know all that many details about Tao to be honest. as for hazama even if he does, so what? i feel like she has a better mid-range game then he does.

to be fair, i thought you meant the super as well. in any case same principles apply, as he can just drive the lasers (and you keep your meter) which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not going to pull it into her favor.

If you're reading your opponent right, then anything that you do is fine. Reading the opponent is S-tier. And how is Sledge being slow not an issue? It's THE issue since by the time the laser shoots Mu has already recovered. It's easy to say "if you make the right call with a move, it's a great move." My point is that it's much harder to make correct reads then wrong reads. Mu, however, doesn't need to make reads. She can just look at what you do.

are they effective, i.e. first frame and to the active frames?