FlyingVe

This is true, but in the case of 6[D] and your mixup, if they are totally inferior to another option, there isn't much point. Especially given how solid Aginor's option is. Hell, its borderline DP proof.

Don't you think that's her archetype though? She's very good at what she does, but setting that up is hard. Most of my matches are pretty down hill until I get a knockdown, and then it landslides the other way. Its fun .

Well, phooey. Thanks for testing it. Still, the fact that a reversal is what beats it could make it useful for baiting. Still, your setup (6C>5D>214D>2B) is better in every way. I guess reserve 6[D] for styling, and 3C out of 2B range.

I actually like where Mu's damage is at the moment. Its low, but leads to good oki pressure/mixup (a vortex if you will), but, with the right setup the damage can go nuclear. Plus I think the fact that she can't chain every hit into her BnB makes her more interesting to play (this is one of the beggest problems with BBCS IMO). 6Bxx2A would be huge obviously. The rest of my changes are really meant to give her a modest boost, but mostly to make some of her stuff less finicky and more consistent. Yeah... ASW will do whatever they want, each loketest always surprises me. Besides, they're the professionals, I trust their judgement... mostly...

Oh I forgot one from my list. -6B, links to 2A on crouching opponents. Personally I think my list is pretty modest and reasonable.

Axis? Maybe, but a good Tager would be better . I've got a capture card now, and as soon as I get off my ass and get it working I might do some videos to help people wrap their heads around Mu. Also, mAc you watched me beat up Tager on a stream, you saw how bad it was when I wasn't RTSD for fun.

Well, since we're going there, my wishlist: -Faster C series attacks -Straight 5B hitbox (so sprite and box match) -Taller 2C hitbox, or smaller sprite (so sprite and box match) -Taller hitbox on 6B (to make 6B juggles more consistent and less character specific) -Longer hitbox on 2B (to allow the 3C>2B link at a slightly larger range) -Slightly faster 214D -More frame advantage from lasers (would improve 236D and general oki) -6C bounce slightly higher (say hello to 3C>2B>5C>6C>214D(wiff) combos) [note: this might be really OP] -Faster 236A recovery (not much though)

You are right. What I meant was that you usually can't tell what need to be done until after it's failed. You wall bounce the enemy with 63214C(3) and you dash in and catch them with 6B, you can't really tell at that point how you need to adapt the 6A>6B link. However, eventually you just remember all the character specific timings for the combo. But yes, delaying the 6B slightly should be standard fair as it always makes it more consistent.

My thoughts.

Doesn't the 2B force a quick tech of some kind though? Otherwise they'd get OTG'd into the combo (option one).

Frame data is a little limited seeing as there hasn't been a mook that has Mu-12 data (that I'm aware of). Check the guide thread for the frame data we've figured out. Mu's attacks with frame advantage are 2B (+1), 63214C(lvl 3) (~+2), and of course her lasers give her some frame advantage when they hit.

Wan't all that about the 5C being faster just speculation from watching vids? Or did that get confirmed somewhere? A faster 5C and 6C would help Mu's game alot. Edit: updated OP with Loketest 1 info.

Thread for Discussing the changes to Mu-12 in CSII: PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL CHANGES MAY NOT BE ACCURATE DUE TO MISTRANSLATION, MISINFORMATION, OR TROLLING BY SOME JBBS PEOPLE ALL CHANGES ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE FROM THESE LOKETESTs TO RETAIL ================================================================ FINAL GAME Mu-12. + 2B > 2C has been added. + 2C > 5C has been added. + C Normals are faster with less recovery + Ame no Habaya deals 5 hits, can be followed-up, faster startup, less recovery. + 3C Jump-Cancelable. + Steins guarenteed sooner + Stein lasers fire faster + 2B larger hitbox + SoD corner bounds from a considerable distance + CA Blows back harder + 6B moves Mu forwards more, larger horizontal hitbox + 5B, 6A, 6B, 5C, 2C, and SoD all air unblockable - 3C techable on normal hit - lvl 1,2 SoD break one primer, lvl3 breaks 2 - Omohikane minimum damage decreased to 1100. - j.2C 10f landing recovery, special cancelable on landing. - CH j2C causes stagger instead of floor bounce System: *Instant Block: down to 2-3 frames less of recovery instead of 5. *Corner Bound. Red effect appears when they hit the corner, they fall down like they got hit with a knockdown. Most interesting property is the untechable time buff, most of the moves that corner bounce are untechable in air. Combos: + ~>SoD(bound)>Dash5B>2C>jC>j2C>2B>6A>2C>jC>j2C>2B>(5B)>Omohikane + 5b>3c>sod(lv1)>dash6a>delay6b>dash6a>j.2c>dash2b>6a >j.b>j.c>j.2c >(j.d) 4000 damage. If + you add 2b 632146c, damage goes to about 5300. + 3C>SoD + 6B>SoD(bound)>Dash5B>Corner Loop ================================================================ Compilation of Changes by Loketest: Loketest 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hzoy9pxN7A#t=4m05s It looks like all her C series attacks are faster. It's unconfirmed and could be an illusion. Loketest 2: + 2B 2C connects now - j3D removed. What the hell is j3D? Loketest 3: + 2C > 6C combos on standing. - 3C techable. + No proration on guard crushes. Loketest 4: +recovery of stein placement decreased. 6C>5D>Habakiri(214D) combos +3C downs both air and ground opponents and can't be teched. untech time increased +Ame no Habaya(236A) hits 5 times, untech time increased +2B reach increased +63214C: More untechable time -6B moves her less forward -J2C can be teched + 236A: "214D > 6C > 5D > 214D > 6C > 5D..." Loop + New Combo: 236A > Dash > 2B > 3C > 2B > 5C > 6C Loketest 5 + 3C now jump cancelable +Close range Tsurugi Combos are being found? (63214C/SoD) +seems like D moves got some guaranteed frames +2C, 5C are indeed faster -Laser from stien comes out slower -Charged steins (x[D]) DO NOT break guard primers. - 3C is techable again - 6A has shorter untechable time + j.2C's ukemi has not been removed, sorry (probably the untechable state j.2C puts you in; you Mu players should know what he's talking about) + j.2C's ukemi has not been removed, sorry (probably the untechable state j.2C puts you in; you Mu players should know what he's talking about) +SoD corner bounds. *Corner Bound. Red effect appears when they hit the corner, they fall down like they got hit with a knockdown. Most interesting property is the untechable time buff, most of the moves that corner bounce are untechable in air.

^^ Very cool, you can also JC the stein (backwards) and cross up with jC or jB or empty jump. never underestimate the power of an empty jump, especially during Mu's oki. Just to add even more, check out the video Zeromous posted. It covers your setup and a few others. My favorite being: (near corner) ~>6C>6[D]>2B(potential wiff) if hit>6]D[>combo if wiff>j2C(instant air)>6]D[>combo Link to video for those who are lazy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZy30t8Lgwg

^^ I've been screwing with this setup, and all I can say is that it is REALLY GOOD. Use it pretty much whenever you get the chance.

I suppose. But a lvl 1 SoD blocked in the air wold have awful frame advantage, and god forbid they air IB it. I was playing with it, and I could mindfuck alot of people by charging the 63214C and just holding it. That move can scare people, a little like jins 623D, but that's just a gimmick. Also, 5C range is overrated.

How? you have to start charging the 63214C right away to get to lvl 3. The htistop might be enogh if your reflexes are really good I suppose. Either way, i was playing with it, and the SoD has a habit of missing depending on exactly what part of the 2C you catch the opponent with. Still there are plenty of situations where you know you will be getting that CH.

Yeah, that combo is nice, but you can't hit-confirm the 2C. Though, alot of characters have trouble punishing 63214C and you can hold it as a mind game. I'll have to try that more and see how real players respond.

Random stategy thought: Many Mu players (me included) have a really bad habit of using 3C in blockstrings, and always canceling 3C into stein. You REALLY SHOULDN'T do alot of un-hitconfirmed 3C if you can avoid it, but the stein cancel doesn't make it totally safe. You can use SoD to make it safe against some of the cast, and you should still use 3C>SoD to get people to second guess counter attacking giving you the spit second you need to make 3C>Stien safe again.

No we're talking off of the standard 6D hit into oki, so ...3C>2B>5C>6C>5D>4D>214D, trying to set that off of 3c is suicidal. Yeah, Tager can duck it, but he can't move or stick something out less he get CH. You might even be able to scare him into standing by doing a well placed j2C, or just create some space. I'll play with it a bit, and figure out the options, and report back.

The Random ones can really piss you off though... Also, 5D is fairly good at beating Sledge, so I don't recommend just tossing it out there too often. Heat won't help because invulnerability makes you wiff, and you can't rapid a wiff.