mAc Chaos

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12892-CSEX-Lambda-General-Discussion&p=1390685&viewfull=1#post1390685 Lambda can't be allowed to have a useful 2C. We must destroy this last miserable vestige from CT and banish it to where it belongs. Surely there must be a way to counter this. Ah, there's no real way to win in this situation. 6B will beat 2A but nothing beats 236A out of the corner (I think). The only way to win is to pretty much decide beforehand if she's going to do 2C or throw and responding appropriately.

Damn Toan you're right. Why didn't you do this earlier. :P 236A gets you out but you can't punish, but 2A CH's out of j.D. Fucking 2C. Oh well, I still have one more trick up my sleeve. But I'll save that for the next time we play. EDIT: AHA. If I do 6B after the Hotaru clash that beats 2A. That won't save me if I did j.D though. I guess that just means as part of the mixup I have to either commit to you going for a throw and CH with Hotaru or throw and catch the 2C.

No, but, your ONE sword hit of 2C clashes. I am snapped out of Hotaru and can do other moves, but you're still in the middle of 2C because it's a multi-hit move. Then I do j.D, and the next sword hit of 2C hits j.D and you get wrecked. Or do you mean you can cancel straight from that to 236A and avoid the rest of 2C finishing. Time for TRAINING MODE

> 2a nerf not significant welp Well, I wonder if Giga played Hakumen. He seems to be familiar with his different versions. But his perspective is skewed. CS2 Haku wasn't bad; it's just that all of Haku's rough (good and bad) edges were sanded down. He didn't have any glaring unsafe normals, etc., but he didn't have anything great either. He was just average. You could grind out lower damage combos safer and win, whereas in CT it was more like, doing high risk high reward stuff. CS2 felt more like, low risk low reward. But the problem is that the character doesn't exist in a vacuum. A lot of characters had high reward stuff compared to him, especially up close, which suddenly made things high risk for you since the opponent could get a lot more out of each situation than you could. If you have a low reward and they get a high reward, then suddenly it becomes high risk for you. This pushed me more towards zoning in CS2, keeping away from areas where I would lose out on risk/reward, but then you only do a little damage with your pokes, and then they get in on you and make up for all the damage and more. But really, I always felt like with Hakumen if you played on point, you could make up for his deficiencies in every version and win. Even CT (except Arakune :3). It just requires to be flawless, but I like aiming for that.

God. I hate it when people do that. :P Those types of antics always get me the most. I like to use my habits as part of the mind games though. Like, if you know I'm going to do X a lot, then chances are you'll do Y move to counter it which makes it easier to have a counter to that. Anyway, I found that doing Hotaru and then just mashing D during it will beat 2C. 2C clashes with Hotaru, I go into D and you have a multi hit move so you get hit. loooooooool If you don't 2C and get hit, I can't cancel into the D and can do my normal combo. For those that don't know, me and Toan found that 2C actually beats Hotaru. wry Actually, I knew that from CT, but it hadn't come up again until recently since Toan started using it to beat my throw mixup. But now the 2C escape has been shut down.

You cannot escape the vortex. Wait, what about my stuff in the corner. :P

I try to avoid the swords on prediction sometimes too. Or rather, I try to make the Lambdas have certain habits. For instance, I'll hop towards them a lot to make them 5D, so then next time I can be ready to IAD over really fast. That one might be a bad example though since the Lambdas I played with (Arcade Fire back in the day, and Toan) almost never fall for that. :P I just IAD right into a 6D. Or maybe they didn't even notice what I was trying to do. So instead I'd end up waiting for the 6D and Kishuu'ing under. I guess it could be because Hakumen is so damn fat that 6D hits him even when he's standing. You can just do 6D and cover both approaches.

Best normals? This is after the 2A nerf and the 6A nerf.

In the FG sense the feeling I get from a lot of people is that you buy a game once and you shouldn't ever have to buy another version again. For sports games though, people play them to focus on realism, so they're all too happy to have updates that bring in new players and other things like that. At least, that's how it was when I played them with my friends a lot back in the day.

Heca, not counting people who play the game competitively, because I don't know why they should have a problem, the people who I usually see complaining about the new versions and such are casuals who just look at the game and see the same graphics, no new story and don't understand or care about all the different balance changes because to them it's all the same anyway. So they go "why would I buy the same game twice" and skip out.

The CT love isn't because he was good, it was because he was fun.

I used to fight Ragnas all the time. :< There aren't really any Ragnas I have problems with outside of the best ones. :P Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that. So many videos. They're probably all good. I was busy getting raped by 80 hours of work last week so I saw the PM and never had a chance to look at the videos. SOON

Yeah, I remember Arcade Fire telling me he wasn't even afraid of me getting near him anymore because all my combos did like 2k and would knock him all the way away from me each time. But I never thought CS2 Haku was that bad. He was underpowered, but he had all the tools to win if you played him right. I definitely felt the lack of fear from Lambdas though. I don't remember enough to be sure. Speak for yourself, Gauntlet Hades is unblockable against me. :P

In regards to Crush Trigger being different across the cast, that's not really that unexpected. Even if the moves were all identical, it would be of differing value to each character based on how they could take advantage of it. But look at the Counter Assaults. Some characters have useful ones that fit into their gameplay, while others are a waste.

There's three heights for throws. Isuna covered the first two. If you're high, it's a j.2C combo. If you're somewhat low, it's a jB combo. But if you're really low, you can actually land and pick them up with 2B before they can get up. This is low enough that j.B won't even come out in time. Hotaru is good if you're in a position to follow up on it. If you're way too high then you just use 2 stars and bat them away. Air grab lets you do free starless combos in the corner. It depends on the context, star wise. Usually you want go by the rule of thumb that 1 star = 1000 damage. So a 3 star combo that does 3k is passable, but if it does 4k that's good. Someone else will have to answer that combo question as I don't do that one.

I think he gets more in Extend and CS1. Especially in the corner. He used to be gimped in the corner, remember. No oki, just lots of tricks. His damage was just more satisfying and explosive.

Maybe it means that it beats Haku j.B.

During loketests I always wonder how I would balance Hakumen if I was the one doing it. What if we just took CT Hakumen and gave him 4C and j.C. (Although really if the choice was to get CT Hakumen back I wouldn't even care about 4C and could live without j.C.) The way they changed Hotaru and Tsubaki later on makes it way easier to combo in the corner though. It all depends on the rest of the cast too as far as balance, but I'm talking more about what you think he "should" play like.

If they're going for CT style big damage Haku combos for a few moves, I would like it. But right now he's getting like 3k max and 4.5k in the corner for 6 stars from what we've seen. Of course it can change in the future, so we'll see. If it was going to go that CT route though, it used to take 2 stars to get 4k. It seems like right now they just are gimping his damage, which oddly enough might focus him more on zoning again.

If the question is "can a lack of tools contribute to uniqueness" then Isuna is right. You don't encourage a character's playing style through just giving them good tools, but also deciding what kind of weaknesses they have. For instance, an up close character might have poor long range game (on purpose) to encourage the character to get in the other guy's face. Same with zoners and being poorly equipped to deal with up close combat. That creates unique gameplay. However, that's different from a character just being crippled and not having any way to deal with things. They could try and give someone like Tager some tools he might need and balance it out somewhere else to encourage his unique style. If they know what they're doing they can juggle both things.

Charged Shippu does more damage than normal Shippu. 5500 VS 4000. You can use it for some frame traps in some cases, but it's gimmicks. Still awesome when you hit people.

I forget. I guess countering air unblockables is different than ground ones then. Or maybe because Ada is treated as a projectile.

It's unblockable against the air. It's just an anti air move, like Ragna 6A that you can counter or barrier.

There were no matchups in his favor, but some were 5-5 like Ragna, if I still remember correctly. He was Tager's only good matchup. Good times. I think Rachel was worse than 6-4. CS2 was fine for me. I'd gotten over the shock of the change in style by then. It was CS1 that was the big hurdle.

Well, there was that Murakumo tease that was in the game for sure. So the question is what that means. Is it a new Murakumo style, or Nu again, etc.