Eshi

oh really? what about him has made you start liking him again? edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0NoLjzFymuU#t=144s WORST ASTRAL EVER.

The tager was american, right? and he's a stupid character anyway.

Carl still has a DP safe unblockable loop that's only a little different from the old one lol, I'm sure he's fine...

I'm not saying don't do it. As we all know japanese tier lists don't apply to silly americans that get raped by heart cars. I think every character is great to play (except Tager).

she doesn't suck per say. She was comparatively underwhelming in CSII and pretty much didn't change in EX, but she doesn't have grossly disadvantageous match-ups like Tager and is definitely tourney viable. Rachel, on the other hand, is gross as FUCK. I don't even know what his changes are, lol. other than the inevitable j2C hit.

I've been watching a bunch of CS Extend videos and this is my impression on the characters so far: A+: Valkenhyn, Hazama, Relius, Rachel A: Carl, Lambda, Litchi, Jin, Bang B+: Arakune, Mu B: Hakumen, Taokaka, Noel, Ragna, Makoto B-: Tsubaki, Platinum, Tager No idea what to think of Carl or Tsubaki. I haven't seen a single Carl player and all the Tsubaki matches are just crap. On another note, Valkenhyn vs. Tager is such a stupid match-up and is easily the worst in the game.

um, not waiting until the 1st frame of her wake-up to jump solves that. Her DP moves her forward slightly so she's missing a hitbox above her head, that's why it works unless your character is huge.

your FACE is boring

Pretty much every character can do a DP-baiting OS with a very low air normal + 4AB. If they do something on wake-up with invincibility, the normal whiffs and barrier block cancels the landing recovery. It's more practical for some characters than others though because of wake-up rolls. Um... this probably doesn't count as an OS, but against a cornered litchi, jumping torwards her causes her DP to completely whiff, and if she doesn't do it then you can just pressure her normally. It may not be SFIV amounts but there are lots of character specific option selects. Carl's entire strategy consists of his unblockable OS, lol.

sorry, I tend not to pick up the phone for numbers that aren't my contacts. what's your number?

I would say wait. $8 is a lot to pay for a character that will be outdated in 4 months, and you'll get it with the game anyway. Otherwise, her playstyle will mostly stay the same, you'll just have to relearn her bnb combos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrursgULWY#t=341s LOLOL

incorporeal pirouettes all fuckin day!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBrursgULWY#t=341s LOLOL

What. The. Fuck. Watched more of the video and Tager actually looks pretty gross. Nice combos and scary block strings.

What is the way you play fighters? Relius looks fucking amazing, but I'm pretty much dead-set on going back to Makoto. I wouldn't be surprised if Ivysaur finally switches characters.

It's not literally impossible, but the decreased untechable time on 2D LV3 probably makes it impossible to combo 2C from it without the corner and that is the main way. She can still combo into it, but it takes something like 5D LV2 RC, or CH 5C.

It's annoying that things like color dlc don't carry over, and money spent on dlc characters feels kinda wasted. Good thing I didn't buy shit other than Makoto! Having a job helps too.

This Makoto was fun to watch: 1 and 2

There's too much to individually respond to so I'll simply add clarification to my post. There is way WAY more to mix-up than high low throw, end of story. CS2 Makoto's design is bad because her damage, corner carry and corner oki are way out of whack, allowing players to only have to land a 2A frame trap or a simple mix-up to either force a burst or win, unless your opponent has a disproportionately strong defense to take away her advantage. AFAIK they took away a lot of her orb oki setups, which is good because meterless and practically guaranteed okizeme is way too strong in this game. People will have to use/find different and less reliable oki setups, which is a lot better design. And since she can't touch of death you from two or three hits, players will have to rely more on creative frame-traps, spacing, mind games, etc. to get the same damage, which is also better design. These changes don't make her stronger, but that's not the point because she sure as hell needed huge nerfs as long as she doesn't turn into CSI Noel. Makoto being broken as fuck and doing ridiculous damage off of everything may be interesting for certain players, but this REALLY turned me off of her and is why I switched to Tsubaki. She doesn't get crazy reward from everything - she has to manage a resource, which sacrifices her offense, or create specific setups to get comparable damage, but she has a ton of setups and tools to keep them from just being gimmicks. She is extremely interesting and fun to play and I honestly think she's by far the best designed character. From the looks of the changes and gameplay videos I've seen, Makoto looks a lot more like this, and it gets me really excited to take her to the lab and see what new things she can do. With that said, I still miss CSI asteroid vision and want it back. =/

Completely disagree. CS2 makoto is unbelievably boring, at least in regard to the things they took away. "Oh, I landed a hit somewhat near the corner, time to do the same 10 second combo with a hundred 2C's ending in orb oki or double super I've been doing since this game came out". The changes to her may be nerfs, but they also make her choices much less cut-and-dry, forcing more variety and less boringness. And since she can't just touch someone with 2 mix-ups and make them explode, players are also forced to use more creative and deep mix-up too. I love the changes they've done to her. She's not just a one man combo video like CSI Litchi anymore.

same old hazama, doing bullshit damage off random hits, but at least 5C CH into super is a bad hitconfirm unlike things like CH 3C. Makoto actually looks fun again in Extend, probably switching back to her for my main. Yay!

Can't wait for extend so makoto isn't dumb as hell and I can play her again! 6B nerf is kind of weird, but pretty much every other change is completely justified and she got some other nifty buffs.

yup, I'm totally picking makoto back up in Extend.

It's not statistics at all. Maybe theoretical statistics, but no one is actually collecting and compiling data for it. It's just a couple of high level players who throw their experiences and opinions together. The only exception I can think of is the super smash brothers community which really does take statistics on character placings at tournaments to determine tiers. There are also quite a few very strong/popular players who only pick top tier characters (Tokido, Floe, Daigo, the list goes on) so having a stigma against picking top tiers is pointless. Both good and bad players do it, and don't do it. With that said - tier lists can be quite reliable, but should be taken with a grain of salt. Even if certain positions are set in stone (Makoto S, Tager bottom) there are a lot of nuances that differ based on experience, like some top players hate to play against Valkenhyn therefore rank him higher than others do.