Omex

actual disjointed attacks don't trigger the retaliation. liz's j.b and 2b do not trigger it because they're, you know, disjointed seperately from her. persona attacks? "Persona attacks work because personas are considered separate from the character" there's a word for this. the word is 'disjointed'. long range attacks do not necessarily mean 'disjointed'. big difference. it varies from game to game, but in persona it's very consistent-anything directly attached to your character rather than your persona isn't disjointed. also, 13f is 13f-the 'retaliation counter' activates instantly if you hit it, but that's the same for hte other counters-the instant your attack hits, they activate. no different. just don't want people spreading misinformation lol

It actually doesnt have an attack hitbox until the 13th frame, what youre thinking of is the counter portion of it. And just like yosuke/chie/teddie, in that sense, they all have 1f startup lol. It also does NOT have invuln to disjointed attacks, its more likely that you never realized something wasnt actually disjointed. Paralysis also isnt very effective since the only realistic time youll hit with it, as a counter, it allows you to tech in the air, giving you a plethora as options as any character to protect yourself afterward, or just pressure kanji for trying. :V edit: and both versions have paralysis on 5C hit, btw.

http://pastebin.com/wu0BeyHp yukiko loketest changes! translated myself from stunedge's notes

sorry, can't check if everything's been posted already, but i translated changes from ho-chan's evernote. http://pastebin.com/7nVu8TBk i think tectal covered most of it but hey, safety post!

http://pastebin.com/xp3CNHXz info from stunedge, translated by me. not listed: supposedly 5C > backdash 5C doesn't work as well, the second 5c doesn't go as far. chie changes： new move： ・move similar to yun's lunge punch. can chain into black spot on guard. changes： ・3 persona cards ・j.bb removed, the second hit can now be done with j.2b ・SB god hand gives 2 god hands hooray ・SB meteors appear behind the opponent, forcing them towards you. Buff: ・2c's animation changed, and now freezes the opponent on hit. Nerf: ・DP hasn't changed much, but recovery is now an FC state ・Sweep > 5D changed in a way that the opponent can hit tomoe? (translation iffy; regardless sweep> 5D oki is weak now) ・b skullcracker is harder to combo with/harder to combo off of (colpevole's psure it's harder to combo off of ala instant skullcracker) ・meteors MIGHT not be guaranteed on use? it's not confirmed ・meteors now poop out less meteors

akihiko： new additions： ・Cyclone cancels now go up to 5 ・同じ技が派生中で出せなくなった (something to do with effects of older moves have changed with cyclone, or osmething else. bit harder to translate for me, sorry!) ・New move: sonic punch（22 A or B) rush forward and do an upper、changes based on cyclone ・2C Changed to be anti air attack (uses 'grab', but not the word for grab they usually mean for command grabs)、当たると魔封を付与、確定ダウン unfortunately i don't know what 魔封 is, so it's hard for me to understand again. i remember hearing someone saw an aki chain off of 2C into sweep and combo, or sweep into 2c and then combo, so there's that. changes： ・2 cards ・B cork floats ore、A cork is around the same ・comboing with DP might be harder (sounds like lv2 up untech time is adjusted, probably due to cyclone levels? that's my speculation though. 5B still fatals for sure, might be to change combo routes on that) ・Suction on D is much longer * sweep D is no longer possible, supposedly * footage confirms comboing into hook can give you a fatal mid combo, guy drops combo immediately after however. * dial a changes, does some rock lee teleporting bullshit instead of the left/right punches before comboing into maziodyne lol. info taken from twitter, and translated info all from hochan's posted information.

hi i don't even play teddie and whatnot but here's some 'what we've seen so far' translation notes, info taken from hochan's twitter and i translated. should be at least 90% accurate ww http://pastebin.com/Jif4Wwus

for the record, poison might be SUPER BROKEN. liz's is unscaling poison that isn't reduced by awakening, which adds 1250 damage to a lot of her combos. naoto could be the same way-and we dunno about SB mudoon affecting combos yet.

her moroha HS. a big ass horizontal attack.

214214C/D should still be 0f. 214214CD is not, but it has massive range on it. c'mon guys ;;

there's an evernote going on with a bunch of changes for everyone now. theorized that take tackle might beat projectiles both versions have the same special move. both versions can command grab/super grab without persona. both versions have 3 cards. 5C paralyze on hit is for both sb chair super definitely has wallbound, might be like naoto's wallbound. 214214CD is not 0f startup, but the range is drastically bigger. it looks like from now on we should assume, all specials are universal with shadow, and outside of dial A changes, they're identical (barring system mechanics)

his... his anti air persona grab. heavenly potty buster. etc. you use it in like every combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrbNYMwVkBo p4a loketest aki vs junpei with some teddie stuff on the side, by aristobule

that command list is what's getting me confused, yeah. a lot of things got mentioned at weird times/not mentioned at all on twitter. i havent' seen mention of paralysis 5C in quite a while so I'm wondering if that was real, and um, a few posts on the BBS and whatnot saying 'shadow kanji plays mostly like normal kanji barring system mechanics and something with 5b 2b' makes me question which info is about him, which isn't, and yeah http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YrbNYMwVkBo&t=150 side footage right htere - 236B knockdown being different confirmed.

you aren't addressing weaknesses kanji has that other characters can press on him. you're assuming weaknesses. your post is grossly misinformed and off point, since it doesn't seem like you explored the character very much. you also are grossly misunderstanding the ability for a narukami to run up --> duck to block a -36 normal, or the fact 2b will still beat it clean. that's guessing. I won't post again, and I ask you again to not discuss it here. This is not where it belongs lol. I don't want Kanji players checking the thread for news to misunderstand what's going on and what he's getting/not getting, influencing how they're feeling. It's hard enough dealing with the Liz players who aren't properly taking into account how she's getting changed :V edit: -15 normal, not -36 lol. everyone can punish regardless!

yeah. also, sorry for not updating my earlier posts where I posted some unverified stuff; since it was late last night I hadn't thought of deleting that since the main post was on point of only updating what was mostly accurate. also, http://puu.sh/43yom

This... isn't really what's wrong with Kanji. He doesn't really need a move that goes through projectiles; the only character with legitimately troublesome projectiles is Yukiko, and most people don't have options to go through them either-A chunk of them aren't even PROJECTILE type. The neutral game VS Liz isn't that bad, it just has to be played more patiently, like a grappler matchup in street fighter. Beams definitely aren't the problem either, considering that they're either 1. negative enough where you can actually run in after them/punish with lightning, depending, 2. TK'D, which means you can crouch them and punish the whiff, or 3. SB Zio, which she has to spend meter on anyway for +8 advantage. :V While her 5b/j.b projectile normals are annoying, they're also one of the only things Kanji can guaranteed punish with 236CD, and with her air backdash nerfed, being able to maneuver away from Kanji after whiffing a 2b is going to be a lot less viable. With sweep/236CD/2B, we're really not that far behind. Slab Kanji also isn't that bad, her only projectile being... laser and 2C, i don't know where you got 'everything she does' from. 2C being a mild annoyance you learn to deal with and laser being something you're generally dealing with on wakeup, since you can stuff the wakeup of non EX versions with lightning for some odd reason. sweep beating everything else... Kanji already has 5B for contesting Narukami 5B thanks to the hitbox Narukami sticks out before it becomes active, can 214C all of them in neutral thanks to the invuln, and already low profiles the tip of Mitsuru's 5A by crouching, and considering it only has 1 active frame > 20+ recovery, it's not that bad to contest either. Liz 2B isn't something you low profile, and it's also a big risk for her, considering her cancel options require her to not mash it (or you can CH J.B), and you can 5B it if she's using it as a poke just fine. We also don't have less mobility than liz, lol. Sweep also doesn't 'inconsistently' low profile these things-the low profile is only well after startup. these really do not help with the real problems Kanji has in the game, most of it sounds like a lot of complaints we had back in 2012 before the matchups developed. some things are accurate but all of your exampels are way off barring narukami 5b. also, if you want to discuss more, please bring it to the kanji forum. I just don't want people getting the wrong idea reading your post in a thread that isn't about kanji.

I'm gonna be doing my best to pull info in and out today, my japanese is still lacking for fighting game terms so I don't want to post things that are misleading too much lol. random things i've read btw: new tackle special is like teddie 5C. C is fast, D is slow but goes fullscreen, SB is slow and they dunno what to use it for (in general they don't know what ot use it for lol). not sure if we can use it in fatal combos. I think you can follow up if it hits them. They aren't sure what 236A/B in the air are for-I think it was a little slow on startup and definitely falls kinda slowly. People speculate it's going to be focused/used for backdash j.236a and hop cancel 236a since that's a new focus. People are going to be doing tests to see if j.b's untech time is worse or if j.214b is slower, people aren't sure. Oh, and you can't j.236a/b~j.214b lolol shadow kanji mostly plays like kanji barring the system changes? (according to bbs). Honestly I've been looking to make sure what's a shadow change and what's not, like 5C paralyze, and I haven't seen things about 5C paralyze in a while, loketests are hard ww

Sorry, which Kanji thread? I haven't heard anything of the such on twitter, jp bbs, dustloop forum, etc. His 5AA and 5AAA changed though!

where did you hear this?

ok yea. j.B Untechable time reduced (not sure if Buff or Nerf), but they aren't sure if hte untech time was lowered, or if j.214b is slower. 5aa and 5aaa have been replaced. 5aa is like aba's moroha HS. 5aaa is like a throw that tosses upwards. i think j.214b might combo after 5aaa? this new 5aa has all of the same cancel options as our current 5aa. j.b untech time is definitely a nerf. i don't know about j.214b being slower but j.b 214b doesn't work anymore. guardrolls (like kof) have been added. kanji's is SUPER SHORT. characters can now do air moves out of backdash, so we can do j.214b, j.236a, etc. 236a/b followup attacks have been changed. translation was a bit iffy, i needed to spend time on it, but 236a and 236b as followup attacks are different now. SB is... unchanged? or a change is coming but not here yet? something like that. 追加バスタ:B版は軌道が通常Bバスタに(繋がらない)A版の距離が遠い気がする。 shoulder tackle move is a charge move. jp has no idea how to use it yet but considering shadow kanji's combo routes are completely different that's probably for a good reason.

less cards = recharge faster. apparenlty the only moves that require persona now are antiair grab, the new tackle move and dp? things are messy to translate/find thanks to shadow version and stuff

[8/15/2013 11:02:32 PM] Omex: i found twitter [8/15/2013 11:02:33 PM] Omex: i found stuff [8/15/2013 11:02:35 PM] Omex: translating [8/15/2013 11:02:35 PM] Omex: now [8/15/2013 11:03:40 PM] Omex: sb chair super [8/15/2013 11:03:41 PM] Omex: wallbounce [8/15/2013 11:05:16 PM] Omex: SB grab super did 3260 on an awakening [8/15/2013 11:05:26 PM] Omex: sweep faster? [8/15/2013 11:05:38 PM] Omex: 5c is paralyze only on hit [8/15/2013 11:06:15 PM] Omex: j.b to b dive doesn't work [8/15/2013 11:06:17 PM] Omex: j.b untech time reduced [8/15/2013 11:07:06 PM] Omex: recovery after j.c is increased [8/15/2013 11:07:41 PM] Omex: air backdash distance reduced by half [8/15/2013 11:08:16 PM] Omex: it sounds like [8/15/2013 11:08:18 PM] Omex: they completely changed [8/15/2013 11:08:20 PM] Omex: followup chair [8/15/2013 11:11:01 PM] Omex: 5AA IS A [8/15/2013 11:11:01 PM] Omex: NEW NORMAL [8/15/2013 11:11:05 PM] Omex: IT'S ABA'S MOROHA HS [8/15/2013 11:12:53 PM] Omex: shadow kanji has a new move [8/15/2013 11:12:55 PM] Omex: charge attack [8/15/2013 11:12:56 PM] Omex: sb available [8/15/2013 11:13:20 PM] Omex: yo [8/15/2013 11:13:22 PM] Omex: new move [8/15/2013 11:13:25 PM] Omex: is take doing a shoulder charge [8/15/2013 11:14:03 PM] Omex: jp have no idea what it's for [8/15/2013 11:14:40 PM] Omex: shadow has less cancel options [8/15/2013 11:16:14 PM] Omex: D grab has changed [8/15/2013 11:16:17 PM] Omex: you might be able to move before the grab comes out [8/15/2013 11:16:20 PM] Omex: or od something like that [8/15/2013 11:16:36 PM] Omex: you can move during d grab before the grab comes out it seems like [8/15/2013 11:18:54 PM] Omex: normal grab changed [8/15/2013 11:19:21 PM] Omex: range is shorter [12:03:05 AM] Omex: YO [12:03:06 AM] Omex: KANJI [12:03:14 AM] Omex: CAN COMMAND GRAB WITHOUT PERSONA. MAYBE [12:04:13 AM] Omex: THIS LIST IS WEIRD [12:04:20 AM] Omex: SUPER GRAB AND COMMAND GRAB WITHOUT PERSONA? [12:05:29 AM] Cyber: Maybe that's just for his shadow form? [12:05:40 AM] Omex: if it is his shadow form is SUPER WEIRD sorry for lazy formatting we're still trying to get things straightened out. EX chair super wallbounds on last hit. EX grab does more damage and maybe lets you recover faster? and 236A can be done int he air. followup chairs are super different?

Omex/Omecross state: MN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYaLxRJA_jM Kanji tickgrab tutorial, hooray