farranpoison

It's more like a 0-0. The losers are the audience.

What happened to being banned, bro? O_o Hey, I did my part. I'm done now. Now to see what else will inevitably come up.

You're free to say that certain mirrors are harder than others. However, you cannot make up numbers to represent that difficulty using matchup terminology like 3-7 or 6-4 or whatever. Just to make sure you get it. As for how to represent mirror difficulty, hey, it's not my problem. Someone else slave away to try and figure it out. I'm just here for the logic.

But what about dat Dio, man? He's got knives and sucks blood and doesn't afraid of anything. And see, he has a steam roller, which automatically means Makoto loses, being a squirrel and all. I'd have to say a 12:-5 in Dio's favor, no lie.

Your logic consisted of in a Litchi mirror, a Litchi will have a hard time against the other Litchi because Litchi's tools are so good vs herself. Well guess what? The other Litchi is feeling the EXACT SAME THING. Look. An Ara vs Lambda matchup is 3:7. Why? For Ara, the matchup is 3:7. For Lambda on the other side, the matchup is 3:7. ((3+3)/2) : ((7+7)/2) = 3:7. Order of operations is hard, I know, but you're all past fifth grade now so I'm sure you'll get it. Litchi vs Litchi is, like someone said before, 4-6 for one Litchi, and 6-4 for the other Litchi. Thus, ((4+6)/2) : ((6+4)/2) = Goddamn 5:5. Sure, the mirror is difficult. Hell, certain mirrors may make it 8-2 for each player. But again, using basic math, it will always average to 5:5. What we've said before is WE KNOW certain mirrors are more difficult than others. That doesn't give you the right to make arbitrary matchups where you act like it's only you playing and not TWO GODDAMN PEOPLE. We can say that certain mirrors are harder than others. Ara mirrors >>> Ragna Mirrors or Tsubaki Mirrors, sure. But all mirrors will statistically still boil down to the average, which is 5:5, and ALWAYS 5:5. This has been basic math/statistics class with Farranpoison, please pay your tuition or gtfo.

you also forgot: 10/2:10/2 = 5:5. It's not rocket science, people. Though for DL I suppose it may well be.

Bottom tier Makoto SBO OCV man, you heard it here.

<@Circuitous> lol <@Circuitous> I told my brother, who doesn't play fighting games, about this matchup thing. <@Circuitous> And he's like, yeah, it'd obviously be 5-5 <@Circuitous> then he continues playing Rock Band. <@Circuitous> Then the song ends <@Circuitous> and he just shakes his head <@Circuitous> "It'd be dead even. Why? Just... why?!" <@Circuitous> IT DIDN'T SIT RIGHT WITH HIM, GUYS. <@Circuitous> It festered.

"No Dustloop, you ARE the Smash forums." And then Dustloop was the Smash forums.

Again, your logic is fail. In Mu vs Tao, Mu feels to be at a disadvantage, and Tao feels to be at an advantage. Thus, the matchup is in Tao's favor. In Mu vs Mu, one Mu feels that they are at a disadvantage. Well what do you know, SO DOES THE OTHER PERSON. Like I said before, you feel the matchup is 4-6, the opponent feels the matchup is 6-4. Thus it boils down to being goddamn EQUAL. . This man gets it. Stay gdlk man.

You don't know how the opponent plays. That would be a valid argument, if it weren't for the fact that you aren't the sole player. The opponent is also under the same stresses as you. In a Mu matchup like you said, the advantage goes to whichever one gains momentum first. But the chance to get that momentum is EQUAL FOR BOTH PLAYERS. Thus, still 5-5.

God, why would you do that Zong. Never again.

Unless I'm missing something here, aren't all tier lists made under the assumption that all players who play the characters are of equal skill level? I dunno where all this "adequate vs possibly not adequate" stuff came from. If you want true human factor in tier lists, then why don't we go the Smash route and make tier lists based on who wins tournaments?

But isn't how easily a character wins also determined by the strength of the other character? You don't go in a tier list and say, "this character has x and x tools and can beat characters." You say, "this character has x and x tools that beat this other character's x and x tools," or vice versa. The matchup logic would still apply to the tier list for mirrors, because in a mirror, "this character has x tools that are good and x tools that are bad, and the opponent also has the exact same tools." So it would still be even, even just looking at how easy it is for a character to win. Because how can you say x character can win over another character easily/less easily without taking into account the other character's tools and what they can do/ can't do to you?

It makes sense in the context of certain characters have easier mirrors than others. However, the matchups are in terms of how both characters have an easy/hard time fighting each other. Ara vs Lambda is 3-7 because winning with Ara against a Lambda is so goddamn difficult, while vice versa for the Lambda. Now with mirrors, BOTH PLAYERS have the same advantages/disadvantages. So let's say as an Ara player, you against another Ara feels like a 3-7 matchup. Well guess what, so does the other Ara player. For you, it's a 3-7. For them, it's a 7-3. Guess what? It cancels each other out, making it even. So yes, some mirrors are goddamn difficult. But that difficulty applies to both sides of the spectrum, not just one player.

Honestly, how is a mirror anything but a 5-5? Sure, Arakune mirrors come down to who gets curse first. But it evens out on both sides because the same disadvantages are for BOTH players. I don't understand the logic behind the 6-4 or 3-7 mirrors. It's not one player that has these setbacks/advantages, it's BOTH.

It's not 5A, it's 5B, GET IT RIGHT

You forgot to mention that Tager also has different modes of seeing, effectively doubling or even tripling his eyeness.

SD PLAY ME ;_; Why have you played against everyone but me? I WANNA FIGHT YOU MAN.

Yo man, why don't you ever fight me? /sadface

SJ so handsome, you don't even know. You seem to misunderstand. Tsubaki vs Tager is 35-65. Why? Because Tager can walk all over Tsubaki in terms of damage. Makoto has the same problems. No mixup, unsafe, short range. She's 45 though because if you do get a hit in, say hello to big damage. Also, stop saying 214C. It's terrible. Really, really terrible. Not even 214C Barrier is great, you're still at a disadvantage.

Wat. I didn't even know. Also Heroic with the assist.

Right. But that's the reason why Makoto is a 45-55 to Tager. See? Range screws her, though not as badly as Noel and Tsubaki.