KowtowRobinson Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Does the combo counter read Tager's collider combos accurately? I'm saying this because while magnetized, after certain setups (green hand > 2c maybe?) that end in collider, the combo counter will turn dark to signify it was escapeable. But so far teching has gotten me sucked in, and not teching has gotten me grabbed by collider as well. Also tried teching and hitting his hand with j.c while being sucked in, that didn't work either. Is there some way out of this that I'm missing? Or does magnetism mess with the combo counter?
Killey Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 Does the combo counter read Tager's collider combos accurately? I'm saying this because while magnetized, after certain setups (green hand > 2c maybe?) that end in collider, the combo counter will turn dark to signify it was escapeable. But so far teching has gotten me sucked in, and not teching has gotten me grabbed by collider as well. Also tried teching and hitting his hand with j.c while being sucked in, that didn't work either. Is there some way out of this that I'm missing? Or does magnetism mess with the combo counter? It's pretty tricky but there you have to know when to tech and when not to tech against Tager's Atomic Collider. I don't know if I'll be able to explain this properly it's something I'll have to do in an actual match to properly explain, however, I will try my best to accurately describe this. In general when magnetized and Tager is comboing into Atomic Collider from farther away you don't want to tech as teching will automatically suck you into the Collider. If he does combo into Collider at a closer distance you want to delay your tech slightly if you time this correctly you will avoid the Collider altogether. It really depends on the distance between you and Tager and how the Tager is comboing into Collider. I can point it out if you can describe his combo string or if I see it in a video. Also, if you want to smack Tager out of collider your better off with j.B then j.C. The range on j.B is much better than j.C and j.B has less start up frames then j.C, however, I wouldn't recommend attempting to do this unless he's trying to collider you from full screen away like doing the OTG into 5D, Atomic Collider setup. The timing on countering Tager on that is tricky and I wouldn't dare risk trying that due to the damage output and advantage Tager would get from a botched attempt.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 It's pretty tricky but there you have to know when to tech and when not to tech against Tager's Atomic Collider. I don't know if I'll be able to explain this properly it's something I'll have to do in an actual match to properly explain, however, I will try my best to accurately describe this. In general when magnetized and Tager is comboing into Atomic Collider from farther away you don't want to tech as teching will automatically suck you into the Collider. If he does combo into Collider at a closer distance you want to delay your tech slightly if you time this correctly you will avoid the Collider altogether. It really depends on the distance between you and Tager and how the Tager is comboing into Collider. I can point it out if you can describe his combo string or if I see it in a video. Also, if you want to smack Tager out of collider your better off with j.B then j.C. The range on j.B is much better than j.C and j.B has less start up frames then j.C, however, I wouldn't recommend attempting to do this unless he's trying to collider you from full screen away like doing the OTG into 5D, Atomic Collider setup. The timing on countering Tager on that is tricky and I wouldn't dare risk trying that due to the damage output and advantage Tager would get from a botched attempt. Thanks for the help, if I don't figure it out on my own from here I'll get some inputs on what they use to link into it. I NEVER tech after getting pushed away by him, this was purely a problem with being launched up into collider, and having the combo counter say it wasn't guaranteed. It was probably what you described being close up when he tries to collider, should I wait until right before collider would hit me to tech, in order to try and avoid it? What direction should I be teching in that case?
ryokoalways Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Collider acts on a negative edge, so you just have to out-mind game your opponent. Note that avoiding collider isn't your only goal. Don't fall into a command throw set up, or, god forbid, emerald buster set up.
Killey Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 Anyone know what to do against Tager when he has at least 50% heat and has the life lead. It's like you can't rush him down because he can back dash 360/720 you but you can't bait the back dash out with double jump falling j.B as he can bait that with Magnetech Wheel. You try to zone but he'll tighten up his defense and not fall for it or sledge his way in. It gets incredibly hard to find an opening on Tager when he's at this point because you basically don't have means to get in so you can't build heat. His spark bolt is slowly charging away and at any moment with one mistake he can finish the match. It's just so incredibly frustrating at that point. I found ways to bait Tager into certain things like throwing Ice Swords from mid range so that if he jumps over it and tries anything in the air he's eating the Ice Wave Super. If he sledges I can DP him out of it into CH Ice Wave Super.
TheCool Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 USE THE ICE PROJECTILE THAT HITS THREE TIMES ALOT. TAGER'S SLEDGE NEGATES THA FIRST TWO HITS BUT THE THIRD HIT FREEZES HIM AND A LOT OF JINS AND TAGER'S DON'T KNO THAT. AND TRY AND BAIT THA SLEDGE AND USE THE WONDERFUL POWER OF THE ALMIGHTY DRIVE BUTTON. ALSO TRY JUMPIN IN WITH JINS B ATTACK, TAGER REALLY CAN'T DO ANTHING ABOUT THAT.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 TAGER AINT NUTTIN HIT EM WIT DA ICE BENZ DATZ DA SECRET INPUT ICE CAR WIT SPINNAZ N BASS LIKE A MOFUCKA TAKE UP HAF DA MOFUCKIN SCREENZ N SHIT AND THEN U HIT EM WIT DA ICE CAPS N GLACIERS N SHIT GODDAMN TAGER LOOKIN LIKE A BITCH ASS BITCH.
purify Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 TAGER AINT NUTTIN HIT EM WIT DA ICE BENZ DATZ DA SECRET INPUT ICE CAR WIT SPINNAZ N BASS LIKE A MOFUCKA TAKE UP HAF DA MOFUCKIN SCREENZ N SHIT AND THEN U HIT EM WIT DA ICE CAPS N GLACIERS N SHIT GODDAMN TAGER LOOKIN LIKE A BITCH ASS BITCH. sig thanks
Mike Z Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 TAGER'S SLEDGE NEGATES THA FIRST TWO HITS BUT THE THIRD HIT FREEZES HIMI realize exactly what kind of post I'm responding to, but I figured I'd point out that this isn't true. If Tager does the B-Sledge late enough, he won't get frozen by the EX Ice at all. A LOT OF JINS AND TAGER'S DON'T KNO THAT. (Props for using "negates" amongst all the rest of...that...)
Killey Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 I realize exactly what kind of post I'm responding to, but I figured I'd point out that this isn't true. If Tager does the B-Sledge late enough, he won't get frozen by the EX Ice at all. A LOT OF JINS AND TAGER'S DON'T KNO THAT. (Props for using "negates" amongst all the rest of...that...) Oh believe me I know this first hand. Man, I always wanted to challenge your Tager and get my ass handed to me lol. I always played Ykykck and LostSoul for Tager practice but I always wanted to see how I would hold up to yours.
KowtowRobinson Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I realize exactly what kind of post I'm responding to, but I figured I'd point out that this isn't true. If Tager does the B-Sledge late enough, he won't get frozen by the EX Ice at all. A LOT OF JINS AND TAGER'S DON'T KNO THAT. (Props for using "negates" amongst all the rest of...that...) I didn't even notice that when I read it the first time, lol. I should have included some big words in mine. Also just saw your PS3 tag, that's messed up that someone beat you to the punch lol.
BANGER Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 TAGER AINT NUTTIN HIT EM WIT DA ICE BENZ DATZ DA SECRET INPUT ICE CAR WIT SPINNAZ N BASS LIKE A MOFUCKA TAKE UP HAF DA MOFUCKIN SCREENZ N SHIT AND THEN U HIT EM WIT DA ICE CAPS N GLACIERS N SHIT GODDAMN TAGER LOOKIN LIKE A BITCH ASS BITCH. YEAH I HIT EM WIT MA FROZEN CADI AND FREEZE THAT NIGGA UP Speaking of Tager, my friend was recently at Arcade Infinity at Fullerton, CA. Went a whole night with Tager, 37-0.
DoomieJ Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Oh yeah, guys, dont 5D or 6D outside of a string or combo. 6A beats it clean. Dunno if someone posted it before, but PLEASE DONT DO IT! you make it way to easy on us tagers.
purify Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Every time I lose to a Tager online, even if they seem like they kinda know what they're doing, it's because of that spinny super. One way or another, that shit hits me somehow. And I guess the overhead part at the end has to be barrier guarded in the air? I can't see my sprite when I'm blocking all of that big electricity shit so I guess it's either that or somehow it knocks me over to the other side of him and crosses me up somehow or something. I hate losing because of silly knowledge things. Literally, every time, I swear. As much as I've played SF4 online, you'd think I'd expect wakeup supers. Just don't see them coming in this game.
Mike Z Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 Spinny super is all regularly blockable in the air. However, depending on your height and where the first hit touched you, the last hit will crossup. It's not random, you can learn to see it as soon as it starts hitting. As a Tager player I've learned when it's going to happen so I know not to RC before that hit.
Killey Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 Might be a silly question to ask a Tager player but what visual queues give away whether the last hit will cross up or not?
Skye Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Tech Wheel is easy to guard, the problem is his grab super, gotta understand your stun values so you don't get counter thrown in the middle of one of your combos.
Coren Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 One time I saw a guy who kept throwbreaking the super, I asked him if he was a witch. He laughed...nervously
Zlipus Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Help me help me help me lol. Im not an expert jin but i do fairly decent. HOLY CRAP this match completely has me lost. I've tried rushing down with j.b only to have everything i do blocked and eventually get jabbed with a 5a and go from there. I tried playing the zone game with D moves only to get completely shut down by his D moves and sledge hammers. Hell when he goes on the offense i can't even properly get out of his pressure. Everything just leads into another attack with him and im sitting in block stun all day until a glimmer of hope shines and he has to use sledge hammer, but then somehow his 2D is faster than my 2A.... I do DP the sledge hammers if hes dumb enough to try and advance with them but most of the time they'll just sit back and wait for me to do something and lock me down with their pressure. Any advice would be great. The biggest thing getting me is breaking out of his pressure, sitting in block stuns and his 5a knocking me out of anything the entire fight = weeee
Killey Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Most Tagers use block strings of 5D, Sledge. IB 5D and the minute you see Sledge you can C Fubuki CH into a combo. This will beat out 5A spam but 5A can bait the DP by throwing one then blocking immediately. If they start to try to bait the DP and simply wait after IB 5D then don't DP and just throw their fat ass. Most of Tager's stuff has bad start up frames so if they try to hit you out of the throw it'll come out as a Counter Throw instead. 5A spam will beat the throw so when you've reached that point just jump back and barrier guard out of their pressure strings. It's often wiser to do that when you have the chance because they'll start mixing up block strings and sneak in 360's every now and then. Instant Blocking helps a lot when dealing with Tager's pressure strings and it's not that hard to do because all of Tager's moves are slow so the timing is pretty generous. Honestly, just read my posts on previous pages because I've gone through the trouble of breaking down the Tager match up in several stages and what tricks there are to do with Tager and what tricks Tager is capable of doing.
bbq sauce Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 One time I saw a guy who kept throwbreaking the super, I asked him if he was a witch. He laughed...nervously You have the best posts in the Jin section. Bar none.
Coren Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 IAD Crossup/not-crossup j.D seems monstrously good against Tager. He's huge and has no good anti-air options (well the magnatech wheel I guess...). It was rocking when I played yesterday; but maybe the Tager players just had trouble blocking/punishing it. EDIT: If they block it you can just cancel into j.236D to make it safer / catch them being eager.
BANGER Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Hmm, I've been playing some Tagers lately and it seems they've been throwing out random Atomic Colliders at IAD distances. Maybe they've been encountering a lot of IAD happy Jins lately. I've gotten hit once or twice by it (complete with loop), trying to bait a backdash from them. So I'd be careful with crossups, unless it's on wakeup.
Coren Posted September 13, 2009 Posted September 13, 2009 Mostly as Oki, but upon realizing it was the greatest thing since nanto bakseiha; I started to do some at neutral. Also if you stagger projectiles (236C->236A/B/D), Tager has trouble sledging them; you can use this to get him to block your icicles. Sledge breaks projectiles behind and above him too; don't do 2D when he's sledging even if it would hit behind him.
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