faultydefense Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 you can chain 2D yourself out of arakune corner trap, you'll have to IB somethin though just to get out of blockstun long enough to land a 2D, but once you catch something, its just 2D > 2D > 2D until curse wears off, no timing required as you can just mash the button....yet...a smart arakune just has to pause his string for a second and wait for you to wiff then use HIS 2D again... but hey, it looks cool
Kumlekar Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 you can chain 2D yourself out of arakune corner trap, you'll have to IB somethin though just to get out of blockstun long enough to land a 2D, but once you catch something, its just 2D > 2D > 2D until curse wears off, no timing required as you can just mash the button....yet...a smart arakune just has to pause his string for a second and wait for you to wiff then use HIS 2D again... but hey, it looks cool With my luck I would 2D until the curse wore off and then get it with a 2D while jumping out.
Fenix Darkblaze Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 This is one weird matchup for me. I've noticed a trend with most Arakune players that I've fought online.. it seems that when you're NOT cursed, they attempt to do some nice combos on you in order to set you up to be cursed, but once they do curse you it feels like they start just frantically mashing on the buttons. At max distance, Arakune has very few options to curse you with, that aren't ridiculously easy to see coming and slash away. The strategy I've used in most of the vs Arakune matches I've won, is to advance very carefully, slashing through anything he tries to curse you with. Once I get ahead in damage and as long as I'm not cursed, I back away as far as I can get and just wait for him to advance on me. Playing at Hakumen's tempo and on his terms is one of the keys to winning this one. An Arakune that has no curses on you and tries to close in to duke it out with you is going to get trashed, since Hakumen can unload a ton of damage in a very short period of time. 2C is my most commonly used move in these fights, since it takes care of clouds above you and if an Arakune is trying to come down from above. 6B is useful as well, especially against Arakunes that try to use that annoying swimming-through-ground attack. This fight is still definitely in Arakune's favor, but as time goes on I think I'm getting better at knocking the crap out of this annoying blob. You don't get many opportunities to get close to Arakune, so when you close in you have to unload everything you've got. Hakumen's massive damage output in relatively short combos makes this easier.
Tage*Proto Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I've played against kune pretty frequently, this shit is hella bad for hakumen . The most luck i've had is kind of similar to Nu, get a lead, and run. If your good enough at eliminating clouds WHILE avoiding aerial d bugs, you can keep the lead for quite a while, 2c-ing them when they get impatient and IAD at you. That's all i've really got, we need to really pull together as Hakumen players and figure this out ASAP.
GSMonkeyRobo Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 I think I remember this working for me once (and only once) and I in no way recommend it or think it's a good idea, but if you're cursed and he's relatively close jump and burst. If you get lucky it'll clip him and he'll be all wtf and maybe you'll get a combo in. A couple times I've also jumped into the bugs on purpose to gain height since he doesn't really have anti air (just don't try it on the D bug) but this is an equally terrible idea and should only be used as a last resort if ever. Sometimes you just have to take some damage and hope for a lucky CH.
Tage*Proto Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah, that taking damage sometimes works to get out, but it's hella situational as to cloud positioning, screen position and where kune is. Kune's 5c is a really solid anti-air as well.
MisoSowee Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 i don't know if anyone noticed this (probably did) but countering clouds kills them, so if arakune makes a cloud go on you on wake-up you can counter (which is slightly useful imo)
Blade Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 I love how unpredictable this matchup gets depending on the situation. One moment I'm swarmed by bugs, the next, Arakune gets Yukikaze'd. Also Burst for Haku is very useful if you're cursed or you're expecting a curse at the end of a string, such as a successful Bug Beam "My Insects" thing into ground curse. About the only tricks I have yet to encounter regularly is Arakune's air bee super that appears on the floor ending in curse. I usually don't see this much because their usually on the run from me. Also just a warning about using Yukikaze...mind that Arakune can warp in the corner and end up on the other side directly behind you during activation. I don't really know how Haku's Yukikaze hitbox is from behind but it didn't work last time Arakune warped.
tolore Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 About the only tricks I have yet to encounter regularly is Arakune's air bee super that appears on the floor ending in curse. I usually don't see this much because their usually on the run from me. you also don't usually see it because that move is beyond terrible. Kune's 5c is a really solid anti-air as well. Also thought I'd mention you can safe jump your instant air dash C, or instant air dash into nothing and watch for the 5C and counter on reaction o rjust block/throwbreak if he does something else. Arakune's 5C has 23 frames of start up.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 So what would you guys suggest be the best opening move in this matchup. Personally I've recently began doing straight double jumps so as to see what arakune is most likely going to do in the second round and onwards. Since he usually either goes for a curse or a teleport and then grab.
Brave Hippo Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 So what would you guys suggest be the best opening move in this matchup. Personally I've recently began doing straight double jumps so as to see what arakune is most likely going to do in the second round and onwards. Since he usually either goes for a curse or a teleport and then grab. I perfer doing a super jump. You get more air and you still have one more jump at your disposal.
tolore Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I wrote this up in the arakune thread, I figured I'd put it up over here also. Here's some stuff I've learned playing against a hakumen several times a week. sorry for the double post but I think this warrents more than an edit more hakumen options: You can't anti air hakumen, if he IAD's and J.c's it's safe jumped since 5C is so slow, so you can only do 5C as a predictionary anti air against this tactic. BUT even worse hakumen can IAD and do nothing to get in virtually for free, once he IAD you have several options, anti air, he can on reaction counter, j.a, he can block(which should be doing if he doesn't see the anti air coming out), or jump up throw, which can easily be teched. I've tried other things such as 2.b and 5.b, neither of these seem to work particularly well, they either get blocked, beaten by j.c, or j.c still lands safely. Hakumens anti cloud options: floats above his head cloud: IMO the worst cloud against hakumen, he CAN 2.C this, but if he just throws it out it'll get punished. The problem is hakumen has no problem turtling under this cloud and then reacting to what you do. If you try to spit for pressure he can either on reaction instant air dash and j.c for punish, or (if he's feeling cowardly) just counter it. If you try and bell bug he can IAD j.c for punish, or if his reaction is a bit slow get a free nonpunishable 2.C to kill the cloud and get some meter. Trying to pressure him from above is pretty tough because his 2.c is a decent anti air(and kills the cloud), and if he can't 2.c your aerials I almost guarantee he can 6A it(his 6A is godly). homing cloud: This one is pretty nice, the biggest problem with this one is that it moves predictably and at the same speed towards the opponent which means he gets an easy counter on it(counter is completely safe if it counters a projectile even if it doesn't hit the opposing player). He can also jump C it in such a way the the only way to punish is with a bird(6a/b/c) that goes over the sword and into hakumens face(which is somewhat hard to do on reaction to his 6C as you have to place yourself at the right height at the right time). spit and anti air actually do not work here, anti air either clashes with the still active sword and does nothing, or he will land immediately after the active frames and be able to block. Spit just gets cut by the sword and then he lands and is able to block the second hit, he can always land and block j.d even if it's out before the active frames of j.c end. shield cloud: this cloud is probably the best against hakumen, he has no realy safe ways to destroy it. Here are a few of his options. He can try and 6C it in such a way that you will also get hit/be forced to block, this is the best option iif arakune is low on life. But if he 6C's you can spit, sword will cut the first hit of spit and the cloud(and you most likely) but the spits second hit will get him and curse him. He can safe jump IAD 6C to destroy it, which is still an irritating option, but a lot of the time the extra active frames will get him anti aired(and jump up and j.a him is much better because even if he blocks it CAN force a cloud hit). A crazier option(that deserves mad style points if he does it) is command dash into the cloud and counter it, that one's pretty risky for obvious reasons. Once hakumen is cursed! Now things start to look pretty sweet, but hakumen still has some decent options, mainly in counter. Once he gets cursed he will likely/should turtle up, your best bet here is to use bird stabs and dives to try and cross him up while he has to block bugs. You can try and blockstring him, but that's very risky, as I have mentioned before arakune's blockstrings are full of holes(literally, there is no place in his block strings that don't have a hole), which means hakumen can almost guarantee counters against. Unless you manage to perfectly fill the holes with bugs so that he does not exit block stun he can watch for a bug and counter in such a way that even if you bait it by stopping your string the bug/a cloud will set off his counter anyways and wreck your curse, wreck your momentum and deal some damage to you. hakumens anti air: hakumens anti air is sweet, it crushes arakune's dives, it crushes arakune's downward angled normals, and it is very hard to bait and punish. It recovers too quickly for fake dash in j.d or j.a/b to punish it consistently, and arakune is too slow in the air to double jump and punish(and j.c will often clash or even lose unless you are way up above them in which case nothing else works so he has no reason to forward punch). Arakune's block strings: more notes on this, jump cancelling 6A does NOT bait the counter that can go in between 6A and 5D against the hakumen I play against. He watches for the jump and if you jump he does not counter. He also does not seem to counter when I decide to do nothing after 6A, I'm not sure how he knows not to counter but he has never countered when i try to bait it with this(and if I try and do 6A->2A he jabs me out every time). I'm going to see if I can figure out anything else I can do in here to bait counter(maybe teleports?). Overall I think hakumen is a lot mroe solid in this matchup than people give him credit for, although th elevel of play required and matchup/frame data knowledge to pull most of those off is very high. Even with all that it's going to be an uphill battle for hakumen. anyway tell me what you think! good advice? am i full of crap? any corrections to be made? addendum: seeing brave hippo answer the question reminded me of something else to add. Most of the time arakune will super jump back, double jump and throw out a cloud, then try to mix up their way back to the ground. Usually what the hakumen i play against will do is block and wait to see me jump, then IAD and land under me and will try and tag me on the way down. I believe if I try and dive or bird or teleport 2C will counterhit me out of it. If I block the 2C it often destroys the cloud I set out, or he can jump and airthrow. I'm not super solid on all the options in this interaction, but it's definitely something to play with.
Blade Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I don't remember but, did I ever play your Arakune, Tolore? Just curious. That and for round starters, I think it depends on if it's the first round or not. Haku gets a Free Star on the second round and any after that. I start with Gurren or Enma dash sometimes but I'm also wary of any rushes that come so I throw out D moves if that's what I think the opponent will do. I love how Haku can read the mood of a fight if you play him long enough.
tolore Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I doubt it, I played like 60 some matches right when the game came out and never played again. I have a ton of live comp so I don't bother going online mutch.
qwerty Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 why does anyone still play this matchup? seriously just counter pick nu for this broken faggot, at least that way you won't be losing to someone comically slapping their ass on the controller.
Blade Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 But I looove beating top tier with Haku~~~!!!
JinSaotome Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 why does anyone still play this matchup? seriously just counter pick nu for this broken faggot, at least that way you won't be losing to someone comically slapping their ass on the controller. I couldn't find any nonshitty music video versions, but I am immediately reminded of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjN-H62U64&feature=related at 0:29
TyrantShark Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 The fight's terrible regardless, but when I actually take a trip to the Metreon, it's much more tolerable. Online? Fuck this match. Even a green connection in this match-up makes me want to break my stick.
qwerty Posted September 3, 2009 Posted September 3, 2009 I couldn't find any nonshitty music video versions, but I am immediately reminded of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjN-H62U64&feature=related at 0:29 0:28 is hakumen vs arakune
PhantomX Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 you also don't usually see it because that move is beyond terrible. It's by no means one of Arakune's good moves, but off a hard read or to finish a corner trap it is actually quite good.
ryokoalways Posted September 5, 2009 Posted September 5, 2009 No one would ever get hit by that unless it's via a combo, and there is no reason to use 50% meter for that in a combo. All arakune players save meter for DA and reversal super. Getting hit by that super is like getting hit by second hit of Jin's D dp after you block the first hit.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 So does anyone have any sure fire methods to remove the cloud about you at mid range with arakune spitting his curse bugs at you? I know at full range arakune cant stop you from removing the over head curse cloud but at mid range I cant seem to think of anything that doesnt lead me to getting cursed =/... Also what about when you are in the corner cursed or not cursed is there any way of getting out of there especially if there is an overhead cloud above you keeping you from moving. The only method I have managed is either a yukikaze whether they dodge it or not ur outta the corner, or 2d but if they are face enough spitting their curse bugs 2d is useless. And as input to help with this match up the course cloud that surrounds arakune is best dealt with a j2c usually removes it and the possible bell bug and if arakune is attacking will most likely give him a CH. However if they teleport and the cloud moves youll get hit/cursed with most likely a CH to boot which then i recommend a jc, itll destroy the cloud since the slash hits low which is where the cloud will move when/if he does that low teleport thing in the air.
Leonil_Requiem Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 i really don't think the match up it that bad just do be scary and play Haku rush down, i don't have to many problems since the sword breaks curses, also don't attack when cursed and anti air, also don't get cought with silly attacks like hit dive over head and his grabs break clouds grab anti air don't attack when cursed get your damage in quick and exit jc and j2c are your friends don't try to counter a lot keep him on the ground with J214C and J214B Gauad him not his bugs (focus on kuny kun ) scared in the corner and cursed, Super counter be aggressive. k
qwerty Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 breaking clouds is generally a bad idea, since it can be punished pretty easily with the low hitting curse thing (among other things). all of your anti airs lose to arakune's j.B (even yukikaze will clash against it!). arakune also has an inescapable pressure setup in the corner, leaving you with instant blocking into one frame counters as your only possible way of maybe getting out- although all it takes to put you back in your place is a well placed d bug (and good luck countering bugs). basically, what it sounds like to me is that you've only played netplay arakunes. which, granted, are usually horrible enough that you can beat them by landing counter hit j.C''s. but a real arakune player won't let you land more than one hit on him. i used to think nu was a worse matchup, but i have since been proven wrong. without a doubt, this is not only hakumen's worst matchup, but the worst matchup in the game. when i played him at svgl, i was the receiving end of 17-2 against hellfromabove.
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