Shining Aquas Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I agree with Tsubame generally being a stronger offensive skill over defensive skill, but it seems to fit both categories pretty nicely. Besides, I'm sure you have better anti-air options like..........um.....well there's.....wait, no......DAMMIT LITCHI!
Kenny tuty Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 keep the distance that a little farther than tager's sledge. don't do anything, just wait until tager do some move. if he does 2D or sledge, use 5B and you can punish him with decent combo. if he charge, 6B will Counter Hit tager. if he jumps, use JA. it will shut all tager's air move, yes, all. if he guards it, mash it a while and run away. when he get's magnetic meter, be careful. k, that's it. unless you play against good one, there's no way for you losing to tager now.
Ferrio Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Okay so what do you do once Tager has gotton you into the magnetize bouncing all over the place shenanigans. Seemed whatever I tried to do to get out of it, I'd eat another throw and was bouncing back all over the place again.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Don't get thrown again? There's not really that much to it. If you think he is going to command throw, DP or command backdash are both good options. Litchi is really lucky in that command backdash is a practical escape to all throw related setups. Most characters can't backdash away from 720C. If you are teching and eating a collider then just stop being stupid about how you tech.
Ferrio Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Don't get thrown again? There's not really that much to it. If you think he is going to command throw, DP or command backdash are both good options. Litchi is really lucky in that command backdash is a practical escape to all throw related setups. Most characters can't backdash away from 720C. If you are teching and eating a collider then just stop being stupid about how you tech. Are the physics of the magnet different if I don't tech?
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Yes. Collider won't be able to drag you in at all if you don't tech, or if you tech late (close to the ground), or if you ground tech/roll. The trick is to just not tech as soon as you can because that's what he wants you to do. If you just quick or safe recover when you hit the ground or neutral air tech right before you hit the ground you are golden. A lot of it is just knowing where his setups are. A lot of his anti-scrub game is just baiting you into teching or tech rolling so he gets another free grab. Also interesting question, if you tech then do j.63214A while he's doing a collider, what happens?
Shining Aquas Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Also interesting question, if you tech then do j.63214A while he's doing a collider, what happens? I'm assuming that's only when the staff is set right? "goes to check" Wow, amazing. Apparently it keeps your crazy magnetism trajectory, but adds your return to staff trajectory as well. Since the staff leap is suppose to be a constant distance to your staff, and the magnetism throws you off, you are viable to "staff leap" anywhere, and will most certainly not land on your staff (or possibly anywhere near it) 2 things about that: It is still possible to land right into his hand though, leading to the atomic collider. Also, if you still happen to land on the staff by freak chance, pause the game and give yourself a round of applause.
Lord Knight Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Riichi actually gets affected by magnetism? Because it ignores v-13 gravity pits.
A Bad Idea Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Hey all, I was playing against a good Tager today and I have a few questions: What do I have to watch out for when Tager is putting on a blockstring? I didn't even think Tager HAD blockstrings until today, so I got a little careless when blocking against him. Is there any particular move that he ends a blockstring with that I can punish? Or is there any move that I can Tsubame after blocking? Moving around and spacing is all find and good, right up until Tager puts static on you =(. What should I be doing defense-wise while I have static on me? Should I be blocking and punishing while risking the 360 grab? Should I be frantically trying to run away? Or should I get reckless and try to hit him until the static drops? Is it safer to interrupt Tager with the staff or without? It seemed for the most part that I couldn't punish his blockstrings with 5Bm, so would I have better luck with staffless 5B or something?
Shining Aquas Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Hey all, I was playing against a good Tager today and I have a few questions: What do I have to watch out for when Tager is putting on a blockstring? I didn't even think Tager HAD blockstrings until today, so I got a little careless when blocking against him. Is there any particular move that he ends a blockstring with that I can punish? Or is there any move that I can Tsubame after blocking? Moving around and spacing is all find and good, right up until Tager puts static on you =(. What should I be doing defense-wise while I have static on me? Should I be blocking and punishing while risking the 360 grab? Should I be frantically trying to run away? Or should I get reckless and try to hit him until the static drops? Is it safer to interrupt Tager with the staff or without? It seemed for the most part that I couldn't punish his blockstrings with 5Bm, so would I have better luck with staffless 5B or something? Well, I think, think being the keyword, that you can punish any of Tager's hits by IB --> Tsubame. Without IB, wait for the random sledge and perhaps 5B interrupt it into decent combo. That, or you could use a well-timed Tsubame (little risky in the middle of Sledge) or perhaps Itsuu --> wait until hit lands --> C followup to combo Avoiding magnetism is always better than dealing with magnetism....unless you decide to block the magnetism on purpose to get charged and use your altered momentum to throw out some of the most ridiculous Tsubames the world has ever seen. Too bad that's suicidal in general (though awesome when pulled off). Generally avoiding Tager during Magnetism is a good idea, but it proves difficult when many of his moves do exactly what you are trying not to do, and that is put you closer to him. Fun tip: Itsuu stance prevents magnetism when it blocks a spark bolt. Generally speaking, everything Litchi does is safer with the staff than without. If you don't have the staff (IOW it is set), recall is usually on the top of your list of priorities. As long as you have the staff, Tsubame is available, and the knowledge of that alone makes you feel safer.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Never get caught without your staff, you are literally worthless on defense if you don't have it. For Tager, the most obvious thing is if he ever does anything into 5D, 236A/B, 2D, 6A, or 6B, you can Tsubame him out of it. Most lazy Tager's will do 5C 5D and you can beat that easily all day.
Zenmetsu Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I just skimmed the thread and I dunno if this has been mentioned before but after playing Mike Z a bunch of times this is what I discovered: - Don't use Ittsu as a means to poke, pressure, or pretty much anything if Tager is on the ground and half way across the screen or closer. Your entire D button is considered a projectile so Tager can 236B through all of it. - For the same reason above, Tsubame is no longer a wake-up option on Tager. On a different note, I have to agree with LK that Tsubame is not the best uppercut in the game, starting with the fact that it can't be RCed. - Tager can 720 you out of your corner 632146D Kokushi Musou setup. Actually, I haven't thoroughly tested if this is always possible. There might be a way to time is so you can recover out of your super animation fast enough to jump out but I've seen Tager 236B (or A?) right out of wake-up through this super setup so I dunno. Lulz. - The last thing isn't necessarily Tager specific, but... Another reason why I think Tsubame kinda sucks is that you have to use it frequently in your combos. Basically, if the opponent knows it is coming up in your combo string they can burst through your Tsubame, recover faster than you, and punish you. Tsubame's full invul prevents Litchi from eating the burst but as a side effect she's in recovery right next to the already recovered opponent. So in Tager's case he can burst through your Tsubame and 360 or 720 you. Hilarious.
Cornix Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Moving around and spacing is all find and good, right up until Tager puts static on you =(. What should I be doing defense-wise while I have static on me? Should I be blocking and punishing while risking the 360 grab? Should I be frantically trying to run away? Or should I get reckless and try to hit him until the static drops? If you get used to it, I.E. if you play a tager often enough and are static'd enough, moving quickly, dashing, IAD, or even a regular air dash while static'd increases your velocity and can help you beat out a tager on speed alone, not to mention air dashing throws off a lot of tager's pull moves and you can end up behind him quite often for a J.B[M]. A lot of the important things is that if you are getting static'd make sure he's off his feet as soon as possible and stay away, his wakeup > your oki. Obviously though the best idea is to outzone him and outpoke him and always capitalize on anything that lands. But at least to a certain level, being aggressive while static'd will throw tagers off, but it is risky, and a good way to mix it up.
Zenmetsu Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 I personally think this should be considered a near unwinnable matchup in Litchi's favor. I don't know why you guys haven't brought it up yet, but, along with all the pokes, why not just abuse itsuu all day? I've destroyed all the good tager's I've encountered because they can't get in. When they try to do any move in, they hit the autoguard on my itsuu, and eat a counter hit. If they try to jump from a distance, I itsuu A. If it messes up he eats a huge combo. Then I just air dash back and reset the spacings again. But yeah, I feel bad for Tager. Lulz, I just said Tager can Sledge through your Ittsu. There will obviously be cases where Itssu-B will work in Litchi's favor to Tager's B-Sledge but it's not going keep him out all day. And if you're not CH Tager with Itssu-B when he is pointblank then you're gonna eat something huge. I agree this match is in Litchi's favor (but when is Tager's match not uphill for him?) but heavily relying on Itssu is not the answer. If Tager can't figure a way around this, then he's probably not a good Tager.
Bakedninja Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Don't think anybody has posted this but 2A's fucks Tager up. IT STOPS SLEDGE I SWEAR IT DOES CH EVERYTIME!!! Even if he backdashes out of the first one, if you're mashing it he'll get it once the backdash recovers. Not to mention 2A > 5B > Rape. Nuff said.. go try it
Shining Aquas Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Don't think anybody has posted this but 2A's fucks Tager up. IT STOPS SLEDGE I SWEAR IT DOES CH EVERYTIME!!! Even if he backdashes out of the first one, if you're mashing it he'll get it once the backdash recovers. Not to mention 2A > 5B > Rape. Nuff said.. go try it Sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of GIGANTIC TAGER DRIVER!!!
Spud Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Don't know if this has been posted before, but he fucking interrupts 6c -> tsubame with his command grab. Pisses me off.
individuals Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 because his tager buster A is invincible. just like communism.
Bakedninja Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of GIGANTIC TAGER DRIVER!!! Bait?
Jthan Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 This is litchi's easiest match up. Why is it the longest thread??
Shining Aquas Posted July 26, 2009 Author Posted July 26, 2009 This is litchi's easiest match up. Why is it the longest thread?? Clearly it's not her easiest matchup. Otherwise we wouldn't have debated it so intensively. Alternatively, it's possibly the easiest but we seem to keep finding new problems with it. I have way more issues with this matchup than Rachel, Hakumen, and even Jin, and most of them stem from sledge and magnetism.
individuals Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 yea some tagers are finding new ways to tech trap with collider x___x"
professorlester Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Yes. Collider won't be able to drag you in at all if you don't tech, or if you tech late (close to the ground), or if you ground tech/roll. The trick is to just not tech as soon as you can because that's what he wants you to do. If you just quick or safe recover when you hit the ground or neutral air tech right before you hit the ground you are golden. A lot of it is just knowing where his setups are. A lot of his anti-scrub game is just baiting you into teching or tech rolling so he gets another free grab. Also interesting question, if you tech then do j.63214A while he's doing a collider, what happens? remeber we don;t mind wiffing Colliders for 720
individuals Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 remeber we don;t mind wiffing Colliders for 720 well hes referring to tech trap, tagers 5D xx collider. (well theres more..but this is the most common) no way we are close enough for a 720 after a whiffed collider in that situation o_O. and if we are close, ground tech away from tager is still better because the magnet from 720 isnt enough to stop a counter.
Jthan Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Clearly it's not her easiest matchup. Otherwise we wouldn't have debated it so intensively. Alternatively, it's possibly the easiest but we seem to keep finding new problems with it. I have way more issues with this matchup than Rachel, Hakumen, and even Jin, and most of them stem from sledge and magnetism. what happened to this forum? Rachel is TOP tier, with Jin not too far behind. Tager is one of the worst characters in the game. Litchi has 6B and j.C. Tager can not double jump or air dash. 1 - Zone the fuck out of him. 2 - Know how to block. 3 - Win. Seriously, its not that hard.
Recommended Posts