My friend calls 50/50s cheap.

[gEasS_53]

To be more exact, he calls Azrael's 50/50s cheap.

 

I'm trying to tell him that a 21 frame overhead is not too fast and the 6/3D pair is at least 24 frames with clearly visible differences(namely his leg over his head with the one move he should actually look out for, textbook overhead), while many characters have better, less visible 50/50s that don't even end their blockstring, but no, Azrael's 50/50 is cheap.

 

Viable arguments, possibly way worse mixups appreciated(already argued with the obvious stuff like Noel's repeatable D-chain 18 frame 50/50).

 

On a slightly different note, got any similar stories where people who otherwise know the system call something cheap completely irrationally, with way worse things in the game present(for clarity's sake, add what game the example is in)?

[edollarports]

1. Anything Valk does

BUT

2. the only viable argument you need is 'git gud'

 

3. i t ' s c a l l e d p e o p l e a r e b a d

Like imagine if someone actually said something as stupid as 'you literally base your whole strat off having better buttons'

What kind of loser would say that right hahaha lmao

[gEasS_53]

The problem is, I already tried the standard answers, none seem to be working.

 

Another argument I hear is "omg instant 50/50 for 5k damage. nerfz nao", even though for that to be true, Azrael needs 2 hits beforehand, with 2k tops for standard small combos, so it still comes out to 3k on average, which is quite normal for the whole cast(besides the bottom tiers, who are bottom exactly for this reason).

 

I basically tried "but most characters have this, or a better version", "git gud" and "see these OBVIOUS visual cues of that SLOW attack?", they didn't work. Am I just eternally doomed to be surrounded with irrational people?

Surprisingly(NOT) most other people online block like 90% of my blockstring ending 6/3D mixups.

[edollarports]

I mean, if he doesn't want to get better, that's his problem. What's really irrational would be forcing the situation.

 

Why would you worry too much about someone who's obviously a beginner saying random shit

[Dark Ranger88]

The secret to Azrael's 3/6D is that he keeps his hands in his pockets the entire time for the low, and throws his hands up in the air for the high. 

 

 

 

I was playing one of my friends who wanted to get into Persona Arena. I was teaching him while playing and at the start of the third round I gold bursted then threw out an instant kill. He ran into it and started mashing A. After he died he said, "Wait, how did I lose all of my health? I had full health." 

 

I told him about IKs and he said it was the most broken thing ever. "The fact that you can kill your opponent even if they have all of their health is the stupidest thing I've seen in any video game. I don't want to play this anymore." I even told him that they are incredibly slow, blockable, and you basically have to do something REALLY unsafe to get IK'd. Told him that almost no one gets hit by them unless you read a super.

 

"Nope, it's still fucking dumb."

[Synyster17]

Azrael 6d or even 5d is reactable idk what his problem is lol

[StylisH]

Anyone who calls anything cheap is not to be taken seriously

[TD]

Clearly your friend is a scrub. That is ok, though. He is still interested in playing.

Why don't you training mode with him and show him when you like to go for the particular overhead and low, and exposing to him why you do such strategy. It might out you out in the open, but his better defensive skills could end up strengthening your offensive skills, and then you are both developing.

He just needs to see the D enough times. Are you ready for that commitment? Make sure he is, too. Do try to help him understand. God forbid he fights a Rachel.

[gEasS_53]

Clearly your friend is a scrub. That is ok, though. He is still interested in playing.

Why don't you training mode with him and show him when you like to go for the particular overhead and low, and exposing to him why you do such strategy. It might out you out in the open, but his better defensive skills could end up strengthening your offensive skills, and then you are both developing.

He just needs to see the D enough times. Are you ready for that commitment? Make sure he is, too. Do try to help him understand. God forbid he fights a Rachel.

 

Besides his constant whining, he's quite clear on the game mechanics and apparently also did some training mode with/against Azrael.

 

Training mode is out of the question, it's way too laggy online and we already have a bad ping because of distance. As for the "why and when", he's been playing with me for more than 2 years now, he often predicts what I will do before I even start doing it(and vica versa), so not sure I can do much more explaining about why and when I do things.

 

Apparently explaining to him that 6D makes him put his leg above his head while he does a really visible Jean-Claude Van Damme split, while 3D only raises his knee till his waist is not enough, they still "look the same". Even with almost a half second to respond.

 

Oh god, don't even mention Rachel. I've met a few good ones recently, it didn't end well...

One simply doesn't meet enough Rachels to get a sense of how dangerous those otherwise crappy attack are...

[Myoro]

Anyone who calls anything cheap is not to be taken seriously

 

I think cheap exists in FGs. Azrael isn't it though.

 

If this friend has a genuine interest in learning and you really want to help them block mix-ups, sit them down and teach them the often neglected basics of recording playbacks in training mode and have them set aside a little time for it. Tell them to focus on instant blocking him and they'll see improvement if things go well.

 

Or if they're resistant or you don't particularly care and just wanted to vent about them here, do the easier thing and get them to fight a strong Valk and say "at least I'm not playing that character" like the rest of us. >_>

 

I'll say the same thing I'd say to your friend: you've been faced with something you don't like, what are you going to do from here?

[gEasS_53]

I think cheap exists in FGs. Azrael isn't it though.

 

If this friend has a genuine interest in learning and you really want to help them block mix-ups, sit them down and teach them the often neglected basics of recording playbacks in training mode and have them set aside a little time for it. Tell them to focus on instant blocking him and they'll see improvement if things go well.

 

Or if they're resistant or you don't particularly care and just wanted to vent about them here, do the easier thing and get them to fight a strong Valk and say "at least I'm not playing that character" like the rest of us. >_>

 

I'll say the same thing I'd say to your friend: you've been faced with something you don't like, what are you going to do from here?

 

Well, I'm curious when he'll start writing in the thread.

Anyway, as I said, he's aware of the game mechanics, including the training replay.

The point of not particularly caring is approaching fast with Lambda being so fun again, so I guess I'll try to look for a good Valk.

 

..or I'll just go ahead and main Psyduck :P

[TD]

If he knows than he is indeed frustrated like myoro said and he just needs to learn how to beat it. It's not that hard.

[greatfernman]

the two moves really do look similar enough to be tricky

except it doesn't matter which is coming

you can just fuzzy guard

[gEasS_53]

the two moves really do look similar enough to be tricky

except it doesn't matter which is coming

you can just fuzzy guard

 

Fuzzy guard with 24 frame attacks? Teach me sensei!

 

Okay, so I found 5B > j.5A, but how does that do anything? I can't follow it up at all.

 

Alright, I found a useful one.

[greatfernman]

The low is faster than the high

[gEasS_53]

I know it's 3 frames faster, but how does that make it a fuzzy guard? He either guesses the right one or he doesn't(IMO really easy by just defending low, then high when I see a spike on top of Azrael's head).

[greatfernman]

uhhh

So you block low then you block high and regardless of which it is you block both right

Which is the fuzzy guard

I'm not talking about the instant overhead kind of fuzzy guard

I'm talking about os defense

[gEasS_53]

Got it then, we meant 2 different things by fuzzy guard. I meant the case where due to previous standing block, the block switch doesn't register in the hitbox, only the blocking mode, so you get hit either way.

 

So I take it you mean doing 1~4 around 20-24 frames. I'm not sure that would work against a slightly delayed 3D.

[RentalBlackout]

Well, that's why the OS isn't exactly foolproof, but the other person would have to be doing it on purpose to abuse that, which would mean he is aware that the other person is doing the OS. Time it a bit too late and they'd jump out.

Though for something as slow as 6D/3D, I think people could perhaps just react to when 6D/3D starts and adjust the timing. Azrael has limited ways to gatling into 6D/3D anyway(and most of them gets beaten by mashing), so there's only a few situations you'd look out for that.

[greatfernman]

Yeah you react to 6/3D startup and fuzzy guard

Alternatively you mash or backdash or DP or something

It's really not "cheap"

[someonewhodied]

If he thinks azrael "high/low" mixup is cheap show him the 7frame crossup phanlax into super for ez 2K

 

or show him valk/rachel/bang(with bumpers)/izayoi(gain arte+transam)

[greatfernman]

You can os the crossup even thats not /that/ great

[Tong]

Hmm I wouldn't really call what Azrael has a 50/50.

[Moy_X7]

I'm a mod and I shouldn't be so blunt but... your friend is an idiot, please make sure he's aware of that. Like Tong said, that's not even a 50/50, that's simply a high-low mix-up. 

 

50/50

A mixup where the opponent has a choice between two options, such as strike-throw or high-low. A "true 50/50" is used to describe a mix-up in which the defender must guess and commit to one option, without any way to determine which option the opponent will choose and react accordingly.

[gEasS_53]

I'm a mod and I shouldn't be so blunt but... your friend is an idiot, please make sure he's aware of that.

 

Don't worry I tend to :3