Tae Seong Kim Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Spot saved. Block Inferno Divider and kill him!
Bluewindz Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Ragna uses 3 main weapons against Noel: Hell's Fang Jumping C 5B/5C If you block Hell's Fang, you can punish Ranga with 5A. It is -4 on block. You have a small window to execute this. 3C goes under Hell's Fang. Jumping C - You can 6A it, but Ragna will use max range. Then you cannot do anything except IB. 3C goes under 5B and can go under 5C if they don't see it coming. Ragna tends to dash towards you often, a well timed 3C will turn the tide. Also a well timed 2D against his low poke will give you a free combo. You are hoping to see Hell's Fang as there are only a few options after that, Throw attempt, Rapid, or the follow up. Ragna's gains the advantage by training players to keep blocking his seemingly safe strings. If you see an opening, 5A or IB into 5A to stop the pressure. When you get launched into the air, and Ragna is finishing his uppercut chain, get ready to throw break in the air. Also, if he picks you up from the ground a second time, get ready to tech neutral and block a high low mixup. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on some parts. I am not 100% on this.
arknodem Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Yesterday I played against an awesome Ragna and got my revolvers handed back to me. I caught him with a j8D a few times as well as a few jA's when he tried to start an air game. However, it seemed that once the pressure was on with Ragna, it didn't let up. Are there any tech grabs that can be done to break him out and reapply pressure on him?
TITANIUM BEAST!!! Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 If you block Hell's Fang, you can punish Ranga with 5A. It is -4 on block. Noel's 5A is 5F startup, you cannot "punish" Hell's Fang with it (unless you IB, in which case Ragna is at -9). You can poke with 5A and be confident that he won't be able to interrupt you with anything that isn't invincible, but a punish implies that Ragna won't be able to block in time and the 5A is guaranteed.
Nitrocidal Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Just fought this match. Kept getting beat by his superior ranged pokes. ON the ground, 5C, in the air, j.C. NO clue how to progress. My only real tool was 3C going under his 5B, but he caught on and used 5C more, and I couldn't beat that.
Kirbeh Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 In this match up, you need to be careful. VS Ragna Ragna has many long range normals in is arsenal of moves. As Noel, your normals only go so far as a full rush down character, Ragna's 6A can put an end to your jump-in days, and if the Ragna can read your drives, he can basically DP out of them for free. That is why in this match up you really need to either: A: Kill him before he kills you B: Take your time and whittle him away A: If you are good enough, you can take Ragna out with a couple of loops in no time off of two or three good reads using 3C or 2D. Ragna has very little health and you could kill him in two and a half good Noel combos to be perfectly honest. B: But unfortunately, this is route B for me at this time against decent Ragnas. Even though Ragna has long reaching normals that can trump your rushdown attempts, a couple of Noel have extremely strong hitboxes, primary 6A and 6C. 6A can put a full stop to Ragna's jump ins, even against Ragna's j.C a well timed 6A can CH him and you can follow up with a combo. 6C can CH Ragna when he is closer to being on top of your head and you can follow up with 6C loops in to Drive combos. After you get in on him, you definitely want to stay on him. Ragna has long normals, but they are slower than yours, so you'll generally want out be looking out for reversals. With punishing DPs, you'll then want to be looking out for wake-up throws. A couple things to pay attention to: Ragna cannot punish 3C unless he IBs If Ragna uses HF's follow up, you can CH with 5C If your 2D attempt is blocked, 4D or 214A immediately If your 2D attempt hits while Ragna is standing, and it is not CH, 4D or 214A immediately. You... should not be getting hit by Ragna 5C's... Rush down smart. Take it easy with staggers, as he can DP through. Its not a hard match up once you get some experience with hit.
Patchi Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 ehh best way to punish hells fang for me is to block (maybe IB) and than 5d which should CH him if he does the second part of hells fang and than combo his ass. correct me if i'm wrong? so far works for me most of the time though.
Patchi Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Oh cool i'll try that out. Reason i 5d though is because it staggers on CH which gives me more time to 5d 6c 214a combo him but i guess 5c is better if you dont have much time to 5d. Also Ragna in Blood Kain mode. what do you guys do against that? i dont know what to do against it so i usually back off and just wait for an opening? cant seem to be able to do anything vs a good ragna in Blood kain due to range.
invadah Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Ragna cannot punish 3C unless he IBs are you sure??? im facing a ragna all the time in my arcade and he punishes me bad with 5C>6C after he blocks my 3C.
fatewalker Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 all cahracters punish 3C for free. Ragna has one of the best 5Bs in that game. he will punish you. 3C leaves you crouching and you'll eat his more damaging combos.
invadah Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 all cahracters punish 3C for free. Ragna has one of the best 5Bs in that game. he will punish you. 3C leaves you crouching and you'll eat his more damaging combos. yah i know. what kirbeh said might mislead some newbies saying that ragna can't punish 3C unless he IB's. when ragna blocks noel 3C, he can do a giant combo like: 5C>6C>dash>5D(1)>gauntlet hades>5C>aircombo
Kirbeh Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I'm pretty sure you'll be alright unless he is expecting it.
Hellmonkey Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 NO 3c is easily punishable even without IB it is -18 frames on normal block, and ANYONE can react to blocking it. 19 frames of startup, (3 frames active), 13 frames of hitstop, 33 frames of recovery take ragna 5c for example, it has 12 frame startup. from the time you started your 3c the opponent has 56 (!!) frames to react and punish if it was blocked.
dragontamer Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 Indeed, 3c is one of the most punishable attacks for Noel, and is one of the most punishable attacks in the game. For comparison, an INSTANT BLOCKED Ice Car leaves Jin at -14 frames. A normal blocked 3c leaves Noel at -19 frames and crouching. They don't even have to instant-block and they're already at more of an advantage than scrubby Ice Carz. On the other hand, with proper spacing, you can wait for a 5B whiff and then punish with 3C 22C RC -> stuff. Ragna's 5B's range is big, but 3C is bigger and leads to Oki. When they start to learn to use 5C instead, you need to adapt... Or maybe they won't adapt and you can punish their 5B whiffs with 3c all day :-)
Hellmonkey Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 ranga 5b is 32 frames total, pretty impressive if you can react to it in 13 frames...
ShinobiBrown Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 I know I can't. 3C can go under 5B but you more or less have to anticipate that the Ragna is going to go for the 5B for it to work, and that is of course risky considering how punishable 3C is (unless you have meter to save yourself). If you can 3C Ragna's 5B on reaction then you are pretty fucking GDLK. Ranga vs Noel is pretty aggravating. Then again, Noel vs anyone with a DP is aggravating.
dragontamer Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 13 frames (~210 miliseconds) is within the human reaction time for a "single choice". (~150 to ~250 miliseconds). However, because this game offers more than one choice at any given time, I doubt that even a pro with lots of training can react to that sort of thing on time. So I guess it isn't a reaction, but instead prediction at that point.
Hellmonkey Posted September 11, 2009 Posted September 11, 2009 and predicting with 3c is fucking stupid, so don't bother unless you catch patterns in their movement & when they 5b
dragontamer Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Oh yeah, I was agreeing with you. It is stupid. It should go without saying that using a move in anticipation (instead of hitconfirm / reaction) with 30+ frames of punishable time on whiff is terrible.
ioKain Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 and predicting with 3c is fucking stupid, so don't bother unless you catch patterns in their movement & when they 5b Unless you have meter. 3C....what are they gonna use to punish?
Wutai_Shinobi Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Inferno Divida! or rather, Volcanic Vipah! Went against someone the punished all my 3Cs with that. So~ I had to just make it look I'm going for it, fautless defense~ hope he Dividahs! so I could punish. I don't remember Sols dp being as hard to get by as Ragnas~ hmm.
Senovit Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 I may have misread, but I don't see why any Ragna would punish Noel 3C with Inferno Divider when they can net a better combo off a 5b instead.
Kirbeh Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 Opps, I don't think they can punish easy if they Barrier, that is. You'll be pushed out quite a bit. Even so, there are characters that can punish even if they barrier, like Litchi. Besides if you are mixing it up a lot, they would not be expecting it (like if you jump canceling 5C or using 2D after 2C)
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