Heroic_Legacy Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Matchup just got worse. Double Gadget beats all of your options besides block or Fenrir. Enjoy.
Wizard Posted August 13, 2010 Posted August 13, 2010 *Sad face* I never like this match-up. Good thing the person I play the most with mains Tager. Every douche that picks Tager (as if to counterpick me) gets a face full of hurt. Yeahhhh, I feel good. I still usually go 1 out of 3 against good Tagers though. *Sad face*
NoirMorpheus Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 Thank God Miss Litchi cleanly wups tager's ass lol But usually I have to play the keep away game with tager
Ichipoo Posted August 14, 2010 Posted August 14, 2010 But usually I have to play the keep away game with tagerHave fun eating a Spark Bolt to the face.
Wizard Posted August 16, 2010 Posted August 16, 2010 The only thing I hate with good tagers is the guessing game. It's like playing rock, paper, scissors but with the odds stacked WAY in his favor. Just gets annoying that I guess right five times but yet still lose because he only needs three right guesses if even that at times. I want more mix-up options... D: Sometimes my mind-games work though sometimes they don't. I tend to lose more the longer I play a single tager though, that's for sure. They just start to read me more and I lose out on options.
dragontamer Posted August 22, 2010 Posted August 22, 2010 After getting my ass beaten by LostSoul a bunch of times, I suddenly don't feel so bad with this Matchup. Tager has the advantage, but it isn't too bad really: I contribute my losses to the fact that LostSoul is just a better player than me. I concur with the 6-4 matchup feeling so far: This isn't nearly as bad as fucking CT Noel vs Arakune (6.5 to 3.5 or 7 to 3). Here's my thoughs: * All of Tager's hitboxes are better than yours. 2A beats j.A, j.B and j.C. Lol j.D beats Tager's 2A but is risky. All of Tager's normals have more range and "priority" than Noel's normals. Okay, priority doesn't exist in this game: more precisely, All of Tager's normals have disjointed hitboxes, while all of Noel's Normals's hitboxes are vulnerable. Don't rely on zoning with normals anymore, it just doesn't work, ever. For the most part, pretend that your attacks are 1 frame slower (or perhaps, that Tager's attacks are 1-frame faster) and you'll do fine. IE: You don't have a keep away game. A keep away game requires solid pokes... and disjointed hitboxes on your pokes (ie: Litchi's hitboxes). Noel's normals don't have them, and good luck trying a keepaway game with chainrevolver. * Tager's "Guessing Game" is his reward for getting a combo off of you. * Vary your jump ins. And don't jump in very often, Tager's 2A and 2C go into absurd combos. * Use 4D on Tager's jump ins. 6A is still decent, but its much harder to combo off of. * Know Tager's tech traps. Tager has a billion of them, but they're generally escapable. Know all of your wakeup options. However, keep an eye on your magnetism. Rolling can be punished by Tager's j.D (whiff) -> 720C for example, but only when magnetized. * Hope you play a Tager who doesn't know how to Tick Throw. If you do, mash that jump while you are getting comboed. Not much else you can do. Technically speaking, you are vulnerable for 4 frames to regular attacks while jumping... but I expect most Tagers to go for the Tick Throw. * Instant Block + 5D. Instant Block everything you can, so that when Tager decides to Sledge, you'll be ready to time that 5D to crush him. Know your 5D counter-hit combo in this matchup. Don't mash 5D, REACT to Tager's Sledge, 5D, 6C, etc. etc. If you're in Tager's blockstring, you'll need to instant-block to recover in time to 5D his stuff. * Use 3C Sparingly. All of Tager's defensive options beat it: Throw, 360A, Sledge, block/punish. When you get 50% heat, you can start doing 3C at "long range". There's a distance where 3C can't be punished on block, and you can rapid on reaction to Sledge. * Fuck Noel's Backdash. Damn it. I wouldn't even bother if you are Magnetized.
Heroic_Legacy Posted August 23, 2010 Posted August 23, 2010 In drive state use hooligan throw to punish sledge/reversal 360/720.
King of Bums Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 Its silly, but at least it works vs you hero :P. But in seriousness, if you think doing hooligan to beat sledge or punish 360's is risky, then you obviously forgot what match-up your in. EVERYTHING is very risky vs Tager! Tager's huge and higher priority normals and slegde making you scared of half of your moves, then a mixup game never favors you ever. You have to pull some really wacky shit, like using Tager's magnetism to pull d move into him, or bait a far collider while magnetized to beat it with j. d, random hooligans in strings, run up throw, late 6b to beat backdashes, etc. Stuff that is 'safeish' are 5b. 5b, is far, doesn't get sledged, and on CH goes to 3c. 4d beats it sadly, but you can bait it and punish with CH 5c. If it hits him crouching, its even better cause you can go strait to 5c, 2c,3c. 3c is only good if you can hit confirm off of something, or can react to a far 5c, 5d, wiffed 2c or 4d. Because of sledge, and how easy it is to punish on block, i wouldn't use it unless you know you can make it hit. (Also, if you see doing voltec charge, punish with hooligan instead of 3c. Trust me.) Jd is surprisingly good in this match. You can use it to beat his anti-airs, and punish 360's and mess up techtraps, and even use his magnetism against him. But, you guess wrong, and its your ass. This matchup sucks, but i have fought threw more bullshit matchups for fighters in general. Just do what it takes to keep the momentum, don't get predictable or careless, force your opponent to react incorrectly to scare them and learn how the tech traps work, where the holes are, and how to punish them. Either that or learn how to play carl :P
wighti Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Dunno if this was mentioned before, didnt see it tho: If you start a haida loop off a clean 3C(non-CH) hit and starting the haida with just 22c instead of 22bc, you can get to 4x22bc to finish it off in the corner for 5997 as well. (3C -> 22C -> 66C -> [22B -> 22BC -> 66C]x4 -> 5D -> d.6B -> d.5B -> d.5C -> sjc -> j.D -> d.6D -> 236D -> Fenrir (5997) Getting a clean 3C to hit on a Tager is quite something else tho
Heroic_Legacy Posted September 4, 2010 Posted September 4, 2010 Getting a clean 3C to hit on a Tager is quite something else tho It means he guessed wrong on Gadget finger.
dragontamer Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 Pick a sub for this matchup </thread> Its not that bad... Tager has difficulty approaching unmagnetized Noel. All of his Aerials are beaten by either 5D or 4D. Magnetized Noel raises the stakes on both sides, but it doesn't really do much for Tager's air game (lol. countering j.D with 5D / 4D) Pretty much, Tager's only approach is slowly walking towards you on the ground...
Dorian Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 That, or being smart and building meter for you to approach HIM........
dragontamer Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 That, or being smart and building meter for you to approach HIM........ True, but I consider Tager's 421B to be a disadvantage for him. Unless Tager likes eating clean 3C into Haida and probably corner combos. He might be able to use minimum charged 421B, but that gives Noel significantly more options to approach him... the attack takes 39 frames minimum. There's a certain distance where 421B is just too unsafe for Tager to do. And if Tager tries to Sledge, 5D, 5C or any of his moves that reach that far... you can just 5D on reaction to counter-hit. I'm finding that playing vs Tager is still about staying at his "sweetspot". I think its still Tager's advantage, because again, he can just walk towards you and force you to make a move, but he can't jump towards you.
kiunch Posted September 5, 2010 Posted September 5, 2010 After gadget finger, I seem to have success to use jump instant 4D to avoid most of the tager stuff, even the AA throw (magnet will pull you to another side of the screen). I think it will get counter by tager's spamming 5A, and tager can alway wait for you to land to another side so he can slide or 360 you out of that super slow j.4D.
Dorian Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 Yea but 421 aside he can still slowly build safe meter, and of course 421 when appropriate. Long story short, if he's smart he'll back off and look for an opening, if he gets 421B happy; punish. It's really all about the kind of Tager, learn his habits and capitalize on that.
bmore303 Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 It's really all about the kind of Tager, learn his habits and capitalize on that. This. Keep them on their toes, and apply pressure intelligently. And know when to fall back. Most Tagers get a bit anxious under pressure and will opt to spark bolt as soon as their meter is full leading to an easy whiff. Play more mind games than the Tager player if you can. If they see you rushing them down during their wake-up you can almost guarantee they're mashing out 360/720/1080. Just time that last second jump and make them eat counters unless they tech roll away in the unlikely case. In the chance you some how whiff a counter hit 5D or 4D I suggest bloom trigger to push Noel away asap if you don't have heat to waste. Assault through is a guaranteed grab into combo waiting to happen and a blocked spring raid will usually spell the end of the round unless you're doing RC shenanigans. I'd save heat for RC and CounterAssault in the off chance you get cornered. Only super if u see them wide open or can combo into it ending the round. Honestly this matchup isn't impossible, it sucks because he needs 2 chances to win the round where we need 3..4..even 5 if you're playing it insanely safe. Online Tager, lol yeah...GG not impossible but you'll get caught in purple grabs ffs >.< . Offline, another story. You wouldn't believe how often you can catch pad AND stick users mashing out 360s by just ear alone and react accordingly. Not only that but it seems a lot of them are conditioned for online and not offline reaction speed. Baiting Tager's grabs and breaking them immediately will upset them beyond belief.
DoomieJ Posted September 9, 2010 Posted September 9, 2010 Pretty much, Tager's only approach is slowly walking towards you on the ground... This is literally his only safe way of approaching most characters. If a tager is walking at you, you should be worried. He is probably better than most the sledge happy scrubs who main him.
Heroic_Legacy Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Lol @ your best way to punish Tager is hearing him mash 360. What if he only does 360s when he knows they'll hit? What do you punish then? Voltic Charge is Noel immune. IE Only command throw and low physical attacks will beat it. 3C gets eaten by projectile guard point. (lolwtf yeah Tager has low projectile guard point in Volt Charge now.) And I don't see what the hell is wrong with Tager getting in on Noel. She can't keep him out. Ooooh 6A 6C gatling. Meet my jumping barrier.
dragontamer Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 And I don't see what the hell is wrong with Tager getting in on Noel. She can't keep him out. Ooooh 6A 6C gatling. Meet my jumping barrier. Well, it manages to get you closer to Noel, but you could have jut walked over there anyway. Lol. Jump towards me in the corner, and I'll just run under you to the other side of the screen. :-) Voltic Charge is news to me... I'll have to test the Voltic Charge then. If 3C does lose to it now, then 2B and Grabs still work. So point still remains, but with less damage to Tager. Overall, disadvantage to Tager as long as Noel is playing well.
A.X.I.S. Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 um but by that logic wouldn't the match up would be even if tager plays well. I see no big advantage noel has over tager. if tager is playing intelligently then noel is screwed in several ways right?
Halcyone3 Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 Overall, disadvantage to Tager as long as Noel is playing well. how? not even trying to troll or anything, i seriously just don't see how noel can have a slight advantage on him as she is right now.
dragontamer Posted September 12, 2010 Posted September 12, 2010 how? not even trying to troll or anything, i seriously just don't see how noel can have a slight advantage on him as she is right now. I consider Tager using Voltic Charge to be a disadvantage for him. Kinda like Tager's j.2C, sure, the matchup in general is in Tager's favor, but the specific move puts him at a disadvantage in my experience. I should have clarified.
Halcyone3 Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 I consider Tager using Voltic Charge to be a disadvantage for him. Kinda like Tager's j.2C, sure, the matchup in general is in Tager's favor, but the specific move puts him at a disadvantage in my experience. I should have clarified. ah, yes that makes sense
Heroic_Legacy Posted September 13, 2010 Posted September 13, 2010 Even then looking at frame data you only have one gatling chain I can't IB 720 and that's ...none. Right. Noel got the nerf bat. Anyway, as a note to you. Countless times I've normal blocked Noel's j.C and managed to 720 before her next jab came out. I've tested it and yes even if you jump in low and mash jab 720 will still beat the jab so really you can't even pressure Tager. There is no mixup on Tager that matters because really your only overhead is 6B. 6B is easily blockable on reaction. Everything you have to do to beat Tager is on reaction. You can't force anything out of Tager because you are far too risky and once you risk and guess wrong you eat Gadget Finger and are forced into unfavorable circumstances. Everything Tager has to beat Noel is also on reaction. We can't really force anything out of you because of 5D but luckily your normals for some reason are really slow so rarely are we in danger of being combo'd. Not to mention if you even do combo us unless it is off of a naked 3C or 5D it won't do much at all to Tager except give him meter and give you a reason to walk towards us with buttons. Tager in the corner and Noel threatening, yeah the damage is there but your buttons don't scare. Tager easily can just instant block sledge/360A through 90% of your buttons if you push them in order and even if you think us being in the corner is a giant advantage (Your best BnB and the multiple ways to get into it) We can just tech all your grabs and continuously block since we aren't losing anything. You aren't going to guard break us anytime (I've yet to allow a j.4D mixup go by without a 360A) so why not solidify our defense and wait for you to crack and do something silly like a random button that we can punish? Drive state may be good but sledge beats everything but 623D 6B and 6D. And for 6B and 6D the holes are large enough to 360A through. 623D is downright yomi to pull off in a string and catch Tager doing something. You should be glad this isn't CT though. If you hit with Spring Raid in CT we could burst through it and your invincibility has you in recovery while we pull a 720. TL;DR This matchup is dumb because Noel isn't scary. Fatal for only 5k makes us laugh because we only need one move to make up that gap. And you have less health anyway. As a note. IB 4D in this match does help Noel a bit...but why does Tager need to push buttons anyway outside of stuffing Noel's things?
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