[CT] Iron Tager vs. Carl

[Mike Z]

Didn't exist, here it is.

Kill him quickly! If he does a combo into slide (3C) and you've been hit more than 8 times by the time he gets to the 3C, he can't follow up so just tech. If you've been hit 8 times or fewer, BURST, for the love of all that is good in the world! If he hits you again after that, you lose, so just get used to it. I did. :^(

Matchup Info:

• If Carl combos into a 3C and the combo has fewer than 8 hits, burst.
• Keep in mind that Nirvana can stop Spark Bolt.
• Sledge will eat Nirvana's moves. Don't use it too often, though, because Carl can still hit you.

[AlmightyGnat]

Kill him quickly!

360b will eat 60%+ of his life. A throw combo should take down 50% of his life.

If you sense he's going to try to roll behind you... grab! He can't roll through the vice grip of Tager.

[4Corners]

What should Carl be lookin' for? Miiiiiiiike, come post in the Carl match-up boards. We need someone who knows something. Seems most Carl players are theory-fighting right now.

[HZMN]

Haven't seen a good Carl yet, most of the time its 2 or 3 throws and its over. Or smash the puppet=match win. Too few Carl's to have much of anything here, and the few Carl's that I do find all suck.So far its been free wins

[4Corners]

I'll play you, but I drop loops on XBL like it's nobody's business. The timing change kills me. D: That and I'm still pretty new to negative-edge combos, as well as having OMGNOLIFE and OMGNOSHIELD! But I've only fought scrubby Tagers so far, and that's just as much of a free win. :D! We should play sometime. Maybe we can both start learning this match-up.

[Smurvis]

I've only fought one Carl player ever, and I got owned before I could get a chance to figure out how to combat him. I had luck smashing the puppet out of attacks, but it was never enough to get a win. My main problem I had though was Carl hiding behind the puppet. When I've got Spark Volt, he'll stand at a range where his 5C is stabbing around Nirvana's feet and I'm not sure how to get around that. If I try to Spark Volt, he just activates the puppet to take the shot and I have trouble getting in range to do much else since I usually get attacked by the puppet. I feel like I'm missing something major here and I shouldn't be getting locked out by something as simple as 5C. I've heard Carl has bad anti-air, is it safe to just JUMP Nirvana? I had assumed air = bad because of the clap trap, but I'm not sure how all that works because I haven't had a lot of exposure to Carl. After reading a little about Carl and trying him in training to see how the puppet works, I think I've got a few ideas, but not sure. I got beasted on pretty hard by Zoogstin and don't want to have to do my testing WHILE he's destroying me. Any info besides "Kill him quickly?"

[Osuna]

You can sledge through puppet attacks, which isn't as awesome as it sounds since carl can use that for a counterhit opportunity. Sledge links into 5C on the puppet, which is not as useful as it is hilarious. I quite enjoy breaking the puppet. It is kinda a weakness because my goal becomes, make carl worry about or break the puppet so I can chase him around and beat on him until it recovers, rather than win by any means possible. Still it is good to know that there are some situations where you can sledge through the puppet attack. Also, everything except the projectile can hit carl with the puppet. 5D has stuffed puppet and carl attacks at the same time, so has 2D. That doesn't mean they are goo or safe pokes, but they are options sometimes. I'm not sure if this is just their noobyness or what, but some carls seem to have a hard time with 5A. They seem to think they can airdash over it or something because I've had multiple carls dash straight into it. Literally leads to nothing, but it's something. Learn the many proper ways of handling the clap loop, I'm still studying that myself. Got to burst/break/take it efficiently to maximize your survivability. I'm not sure what to do when Carl gets in my face though, puppet tandem pressure is pretty beastly and I only seem to get out against bad carls. With good carls I just have to try and block the mixups till I get a chance to get into a better position.

[Kyle]

...If he does a combo into slide (3C) and you've been hit more than 8 times by the time he gets to the 3C, he can't follow up so just tech....

Carl can still follow after 8 hits.

whatever, 3C, J.2C, Alle~can, JB+C...

whatever, 3C, 632146C, 8]D[, SuperJumpB+C...

Sorry Tager players =X

You do get AMAZING DMG too. This fight is high stakes.

[Meaty Moments]

haha yea i feel really bad for you guys! i'm only a mediocre carl and i eat tagers for breakfast! but dont be too mad b/c it's the only matchup carl has where it's in his favor... if you really are struggling, i find that the ones i lose too just play like assholes and do a 2D for the magnetize, then spam 360's and 720's on wake up after i get a combo out. just watch out that carl doesn't eek out a CH on 2D's startup (it's quite easy to...), SO MAKE SURE IT'S GONNA BE BLOCKED OR HIT also, always go INTO nirvana, and use the A sledge. jumping = unblockable 8D or 623D, but, J.C is great for an air to air against carl himself. surprisingly... and, play dirty. it's your only hope. oh, and btw, don't waste time killing the doll. i end up doing more damage to a tager that spams 5A on nirvana than he does to either of us so please. just don't.

[4Corners]

i'm only a mediocre carl and i eat tagers for breakfast! but dont be too mad b/c it's the only matchup carl has where it's in his favor...

Umm... what?

Virtually any match-up where the loop is guaranteed death is either even or in his favor. Kune v Carl is 5-5. Carl vs Bang is Bang's worst match-up. List goes on, mangz.

Learn the loop, love it.

[Meaty Moments]

i'm only a mediocre carl

hmm... interesting.

[Osuna]

Remember what I said about how I have a bad obsession with killing the puppet? The other day I won 2 matchs as lost 1 because I couldn't help myself. When Carl tries to pin me down with Nirvana's long slow punch combo, I sledge A through all the hits until the puppet dies, or I get hit. Once I actually killed carl as he tried to air dash at my sledges. While my way of doing it was stupid, I can imagine that this could be used better if you knew you could take out the puppet.

[CrazyI-nomitsu]

I just play a Car ltoday online, and got rape pretty damn badly. I try to stay in his face, but that led to me getting smash in between him and his bitch. So my idea for fighting Carl is to keep my back to the wall and punish anything I see, or at least try some j2C.

[Nobus3r1]

I think we should coordinate with the 'Carl' sub-forum as right now he is easily the scarcest character online (and probably with good reason: clap loop + lag = fail). In ~130 matches I've played 1 Carl. This obviously makes it a really hard matchup to practice (insert blinding flash of the obvious).

[4Corners]

A lot of Tagers boot me. =(

[Plasma]

All I can really say is DON'T USE SLEDGE B. It leaves you open for Carl to trip you with 3C (the slide), and then they can set up the clap loop on you. Stay standing a lot in the match and don't stay in the air very long either. Sledge A is pretty safe. If you suspect Nirvana is going to hit you from behind, get away with 6C or sledge A. Carl can go forward and behind you with that one dash move during Rhapsody of Memories so just guard in the right direction a lot while that's going on too.

[Coopa]

The best advice I can give you is what Filipino Champ (sf4 player) has given to me: "BACK THE FUCK UP!" It has saved my life a many times, and it is too important against Carl. If Carl and her sister are on both your sides, jump C and BACK THE FUCK UP!

[4Corners]

Here's what I do vs Tager, and something you should watch out for: At the very start of the match, I ALWAYS sj or IAD backwards, to get the fuck away from Tager. After that, I wait for him to approach. Most common way I've found to get Tager players to try and "rush" in is by turning Nirvana on and off repeatedly to make the Tager players whiff. After a while of attacking without damaging anything, most people get impatient and come after Carl. Every last Tager I've fought approaches by jumping/sjing. I just watch the jump arc, get in place, and force them to block a 5c. After that, Nirvana does her punch, and I start pressure strings until I get a hit. Once that's happened, loop, blah blah blah. Also, if you're fighting a Carl and you get electricity, pleaaaaaaase don't throw it if Nirvana is between you two. It's the dumbest thing you can do in a match. All any Carl has to do is press d, and the only thing you had that was scary for him is gone.

[Beatrush]

The best advice I can give you is what Filipino Champ (sf4 player) has given to me: "BACK THE FUCK UP!"

I agree.

I do not let Carl get anywhere near me. I try to knock him back and keep him back.

Also, I have run into some Carls that use barrier bursts to set up the clap loop. They use it to cause you to go flying back into Nirvana, start the clap loop and rush up to get into position for the relaunch.

[HZMN]

one thing I like to do is "Camp" Nirvana when Carl is away. Some Carl's will be too busy trying to set up a combo using Nirvana as a started and 5a with Tager puts Nirvana in a constant state of Activation and Deactivation. Forces Carl to actually come to you and free damage to Nirvana. Side note though: Make sure you block if the Carls picks any of her moves that are can be uninterrupted.

[A.X.I.S.]

I agree.

I do not let Carl get anywhere near me. I try to knock him back and keep him back.

Also, I have run into some Carls that use barrier bursts to set up the clap loop. They use it to cause you to go flying back into Nirvana, start the clap loop and rush up to get into position for the relaunch.

oh god don't remind me...so stupid and unfair yet genius...accept it happened to me when i was ragna.

for tager i wait for him, most people are not as patient as me, but how do i deal with his jump pokes? i just can't think of anything to do to him.

[4Corners]

If you have any aerials with anything resembling range, that would be the way to stop him.

[IronTager]

Here are my tips against Carl First thing's first, if you're facing a good Carl, don't expect him to just sit back behind Nirvana cause that wouldn't be too smart. As most of you probably know already, when he spins around you, you can grab him out of that, so I suggest using Gigantic Tager to punish him. Now then, Carl himself, though weak, is fast or at least, faster than Tager (But so is almost everyone else). Mike Z. gave a good tip, finish him as fast as possible, however, the big flaw with this tip is that a good Carl isn't going to finish fast. A smart Carl player will try to rush you down and pressure you with his combos, however, he can't rely on this way too much. If you distance yourself from Carl and get far enough from Nirvana, a good Carl will attempt to rush you down, BE ON GUARD! Try to hit him before he can reach you, this is common sense of course, however, it still needs to be reinforced and understood. Now then, one of the biggest mistakes is getting in between Carl and Nirvana, an obvious mistake. Remember as well that Tager may not be a fast character, but he can still work fast. Carl CAN'T use Nirvana if he's being attacked at and blocking, pressure him a bit and trick him into getting grabbed because of this. Even if he does try to use Nirvana within a second, remember, Nirvana's hands are accounted for as projectiles, however, Sledge isn't always the smartest thing to do because Carl could be playing you just to grab. Pay close attention and think about when you're going to use Tager's projectile as well, because as Mike mentioned, Nirvana can get in the way. Try not to concentrate so much on attacking Nirvana and putting her in commission as much as, trying to keep Carl from using her and tricking him. Nirvana isn't the one you're trying to kill, Carl is. One of the most annoying things about Nirvana is that because Tager's jump is so crappy, he has a harder time jumping over Nirvana, so super jump over her. Also, a good player will know when to rush you down, a good Carl will know to do so as well, so don't expect a good Carl to straight up rush you down.

[Tofu Warrior]

A few little nuggets of information, from my experience with Carls:

• 5A is a pretty reliable anti-air in this match up, it will stuff any of Carl's air dashes aimed below your neck; you're out of luck if he's air dashing at your head. 5A will also lose to his dives.

• If you find yourself caught between Carl and Nirvana, which you inevitably will, IB is your best friend. A good Carl knows you're looking to Sledge through Nirvana and hit him, so he'll try and bait it. IB during big gaps in his strings, then jump or back dash away. You can try hitting him with 5A and begin pressure, but make sure to mix it up because he can IB predictable strings and CH you.

• If you Sledge Nirvana, you can mash 5A to lock her down in a ridiculous looking combo. This will cause your audience to laugh uproariously, demoralizing your opponent. You can contribute by saying things like, "Yeah, take it bitch, you know you like it" to heighten the effect. Forget what you've heard, this is the real tournament metagame. Spamming 5A after Sledging Nirvana will do a lot damage, depending on how long you can get away with it. If he air dashes at you, you'll stuff him and you might CH one of his pokes if you're lucky.

[4Corners]

Tofu, we should plaaaaaay. I need to fight a decent Tager.