cerebralsoldier Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 2D against 2C and 5B against 4B. I don't know that many Nu's that do 4B? It's pretty punishable on block (first or second hit). hmm, are you sure about 2d on her 2c? I could've sworn I tried that and got counter hit for it. but then, maybe that wasnt following a tech or perhaps I just didnt do it soon as possible. I find they 4b when expecting a low, or to throw you off to hit with the overhead part of the hit, so if I 2c or 3c sometimes I get 4b'd into combo out of it. Thanx though, I'll give these a try
Supa Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Oh, wait, I think I got Nu's 2C confused with her 3C. You can Noel 3C early on a Nu 2C, then 22C -> combo.
Tempered Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 This match is pretty much a RPS (rock paper scissors) match in my opinion. You jump around blocking in the air all day to make nu have to guess between forward or up sword while you wait for an opening to dash in. I find being patient against a good nu can lead to problems. I mean one that makes use of her command dash to 50/50 crossup with grab/poke mixup as well as long ass strings instead of hurr durr sword spam 'mixup'. Nu doesnt have any reversals so once you get in on her run all the mixups you can because shes dieing in 2 combos so gets those hits in. also if nu is in the air and you're within her sword range, 6c > her.
ShinobiBrown Posted September 14, 2009 Posted September 14, 2009 Topic revival; Been playing a few Nu's lately and I've come to the conclusion that back dashing is utterly worthless in this match up. Back dashing = eating a 5D sword. If I'm ever dashing in this match up, it's a forward dash and if I need to block I cancel my dash with barrier. Another thing I find that is good to do is to super jump or delay your double jumps here and there to make Nu have to guess which anti-air sword to use. Delayed double jumping is also good to bait out Nu's 2C anti-air when you're close to her. Something I need to work on is IBing the second D in her 5DD so I can dash out and if she ends up whiffing her 4D, she's getting fucked up.
dragontamer Posted September 15, 2009 Posted September 15, 2009 Another thing I find that is good to do is to super jump or delay your double jumps here and there to make Nu have to guess which anti-air sword to use. Delayed double jumping is also good to bait out Nu's 2C anti-air when you're close to her. Something I need to work on is IBing the second D in her 5DD so I can dash out and if she ends up whiffing her 4D, she's getting fucked up. It was under my impression that 5DD -> Command Dash and 5DD -> Jump Cancel -> j.214D / j.2DD / j.214DC was safer for Nu, at least, I'm seeing that more often in higher level videos. Of course, learning to beat 5DD-> 4D is necessary if you want to get to that level.
Kronikhall Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I lost one round to a 3C Nu spammer today...I teched in literally all the wrong ways possible. I hate this match-up.
zaeris Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 I lost one round to a 3C Nu spammer today...I teched in literally all the wrong ways possible. I hate this match-up. Rock, paper, scissors? if that person spams 3c you spam 2d back into 28D into time 66c into revolver drive combo....
dragontamer Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 There is only one correct tech vs Nu: Neutral Tech into block. They can't hit you with a meaty, a sword, nothing. The worst they can do to you is mixup between 3C (beaten by wakeup 2D), Throw (also kinda beaten by 2D), and TK Overhead. (Forgot the motion for that). In all cases, blocking after a neutral tech, and reacting appropriately can cover you. Even if you don't react well, just watch for the throw tech and block low. Volia, you killed 2 of their options right there and you've covered all of the long-distance ones (that overhead sword is slow as hell)
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Rock, paper, scissors? if that person spams 3c you spam 2d back into 28D into time 66c into revolver drive combo.... do you have the game? 2D 6B 6A (5A if necessary for distance) 28D > 6C > Air combo / drive bnb / 5D 236D if full bnb doesnt connect
zaeris Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 do you have the game? 2D 6B 6A (5A if necessary for distance) 28D > 6C > Air combo / drive bnb / 5D 236D if full bnb doesnt connect what to say... first 2d will beat nu 3c.. it is counter hit and low stance on hit... seconding adding extra drive its okay but most people if not can hit confirm into 28D without being punished. what you are stipulating is a safe pressure game not a damage on hit confirm game. If you lessen your hits revolver drive combo works.. the hard part is to do the pick up after 28D.. if you lessen your hits it is easier to time the 6c whiff to lower them enough.. you can add more hits but it will make it unneccessary at best you are making it safer if you can't hit confirm. p.s less trash talking with flammatory comments like "do you have the game" unless you have something better to add.
dragontamer Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 SKD is sad because he can't land 2D 28D -> 66C without the help of a corner or RC :-p SKD's point is this: 2D 6B 6A 28D makes the 66C a bit easier to land. It may lose a bit of damage due to the 6A (and maybe the 6A + 5A if you're too far), but it makes the 66C more consistent and doesn't require corner or RC. Although, the point is rather tangential to the current thread, and doesn't really contribute much to the argument, and we all know what you were talking about anyway. EDIT: Its somewhat moot depending on your use of 2D, because 6B, (Drive) 5A and (Drive) 6A only combo from 2D on a crouching opponent (at least, in my tests). If you use 2D as a "reversal" attack because of its 1-frame low invulnerability, or as a meaty attack as oki, 28D is really your only option for a combo. (well, 2D -> 5B RC 6A 6C is another "option" but I'm pretty sure it does less damage, but the 5B is safer on block because it pushes the opponent away and has frame traps if you continue the chain-revolver... unlike 28D) More on this thread though... IMO, the rock-paper scissors is in the double-jump, IAD, and ground dash approach. Landing from a jump has the potential for a surprise 214D to score a knockdown on Nu (RC combo doesn't work on her), which should be good enough. Once you're in, its a mistake to let Nu up outside of maybe a Counter-Assault. (Even if she bursts, you should be able to burst predict, block, then punish). Nu has no wakeup options outside of backdash and supers (and the super with invincibility takes like, 24 frames to come out, more than enough time to recover from even a 6B and then block, or a whiffed 5A and then block, esp because there is 13 frames after the super-freeze where you can just hold barrier-block).
Kronikhall Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 Rock, paper, scissors? if that person spams 3c you spam 2d back into 28D into time 66c into revolver drive combo.... I never was good with RPS. Oh well, that terrible loss is all in the past now. It wasn't just Nu, I just had a real big problem with blocking on wake up in general. Delta1652 schooled me one round (as Noel) just by 6Bing me on wake up. And, of course, I'd always tech into it like a pro.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 18, 2009 Posted October 18, 2009 I never was good with RPS. Oh well, that terrible loss is all in the past now. It wasn't just Nu, I just had a real big problem with blocking on wake up in general. Delta1652 schooled me one round (as Noel) just by 6Bing me on wake up. And, of course, I'd always tech into it like a pro. 5A spam makes this matchup boring
Kronikhall Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 5A spam makes this matchup boring Cool. I'll try the boring method next time.
zaeris Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 I never was good with RPS. Oh well, that terrible loss is all in the past now. It wasn't just Nu, I just had a real big problem with blocking on wake up in general. Delta1652 schooled me one round (as Noel) just by 6Bing me on wake up. And, of course, I'd always tech into it like a pro. Its just a natural progression into fighting games.. Like for Example what you're doing are rather predictive, you only need 2 strong combo to finish off the matches hence sometimes there is a reliance on getting that large damage asap. If your friend block up lots hit him with 2c on block it isn't there for damage but at least you want to tell him to block low. This is where RSP comes along.. when the gap is large enough more than likely they will 3c you back if you spam enough 2c this is where you use 2d and punish. If they block high a lot you hit them with as many lows as possible and also throw to shake them up. the more option you have the better you're mind game is. Noel 5D goes through nu 5D, this is a guessing because Nu 5d sword are unreactable but also predictable given its range it test what style the nu player prefer a more melee orientated match is less likely to get hit but otherwise you will score more hits than not. spacing: where a forward jump land is outside of nu 2c range fall into noel 3c to catch them by surprises. One of the more dynamic challenges is baiting nu. as stated noel 3c goes under nu 2c, 5c and 5d ( although you will lose on start up frame before going into low stance position) taking risk but no nu should ever beable to 5c you freely, the gap exist on the ~4th hit and IB making it possible to 3c on block and punished spammer. against nu always tech neutral with delay teching to change the response time. pressure by moving forward is essential.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Once you hit with a 5A, its over unless you screw up
Kronikhall Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Its just a natural progression into fighting games.. Like for Example what you're doing are rather predictive, you only need 2 strong combo to finish off the matches hence sometimes there is a reliance on getting that large damage asap. If your friend block up lots hit him with 2c on block it isn't there for damage but at least you want to tell him to block low. What was I doing that was predictable?
Kronikhall Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Once you hit with a 5A, its over unless you screw up Against Nu or just in general? And once I hit with 5A, I can mix it up or I can hit confirm to 6A and go into a different combo, right?
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Against Nu or just in general? And once I hit with 5A, I can mix it up or I can hit confirm to 6A and go into a different combo, right? Nu especially, i dont think she has any quick counter options that hurt that 5A wont put a dent in. She is forced to block or backdash, you can confirm into 6A if you want, then on oki make sure you 2B while approaching to scoop any rolls or no recovers. If you whiff, 5A spam. or dash > 5a spam if they backdash. Upon 5A spamming you can mixup if you want but you lose the ability to keep up 5A pressure. Once nu gets 50 heat, watch for CA, if you REALLY feel ballsy you can jD the CA with good predictions, i did that to zujira once you have to be good with your dashes though, you can also bait a counter and punish with jD :3
Kronikhall Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 Good advice, thanks. I don't think I spam 5A enough. 5A pressure is 5Axn->66->5Axn/throw right? I also don't use JD a lot. I feel as if I've been playing Noel without utilizing her good moves...
dragontamer Posted October 19, 2009 Posted October 19, 2009 SKD: you know what beats Nu's CA? Long Range Chain Revolver Spam (5C, 5B and 5D). No joke. You out range her crappy Kick and then counter her :-)
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 20, 2009 Posted October 20, 2009 Naw i beat litchi's CA with prediction jD :o Yay lets CR5B into something and get CH 2C'd ;(
dragontamer Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Assuming you can continue the chain revolver... (Drive) 5B has +15 frames on block. (Drive) 5A starts up in 22 Frames, and (Drive) 6B starts up in 21 Frames. We're looking at a hole of 7 or 6 frames, faster than 2C's startup. If you're really cautious, you can 236D for a 5 frame hole. (Drive) 5C has +13 frames, so its almost as good, but you can 5B after a 5C, and 5B has 17 startup frames, leaving a hole of only 4 frames. (Drive) 5D has +12 frames, leaving a hole of 5 frames. 5B is also meatier than Nu's backdash, so she can't backdash or counter-attack. Long-Range Chain Revolver Spam has frame-traps like woah, and they're faster than anything that v-13 can do. Even if she does 632146D, you have enough time to finish the 5B and do 214D to get invincibility frames vs that super. And you should be out-ranging her 5A and 5B at that range.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Assuming you can continue the chain revolver... (Drive) 5B has +15 frames on block. (Drive) 5A starts up in 22 Frames, and (Drive) 6B starts up in 21 Frames. We're looking at a hole of 7 or 6 frames, faster than 2C's startup. If you're really cautious, you can 236D for a 5 frame hole. (Drive) 5C has +13 frames, so its almost as good, but you can 5B after a 5C, and 5B has 17 startup frames, leaving a hole of only 4 frames. (Drive) 5D has +12 frames, leaving a hole of 5 frames. 5B is also meatier than Nu's backdash, so she can't backdash or counter-attack. Long-Range Chain Revolver Spam has frame-traps like woah, and they're faster than anything that v-13 can do. Even if she does 632146D, you have enough time to finish the 5B and do 214D to get invincibility frames vs that super. And you should be out-ranging her 5A and 5B at that range. So an ideal string would be Starter > 5C 5B 5D 5C 236D?
dragontamer Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 The only starter I trust is 5C or 2C -> 5D -> (stuffs) Stuffs because, its Chain Revolver, you've got 13 choices of attacks depending on what you need at every single point. 5D -> 6C is funny to eat up their guard libra / barrier, and frame traps to 5B (4 frame), and hitconfirms into 214A, but 5D -> 6C is unsafe. (13 frame hole). 5D -> 5B is the "standard" frame trap I use, which is only a 7 frame hole. (don't do it in grab range, and you're fine, or use 5D -> 2D to punish grab whiffs). If I'm just out to eat Guard Libra and I'm trying to do it safely, I do 5D -> 5B -> 5C -> 5B -> 5C -> 236D. The 5B -> 5C is only outranged and slower than Nu's 3C, but the 5B has no hitstop, making the timing of that a little strict. Plus, if you predict a 3C, you can just 2D her. Anyway, 9000+ Guard Libra damage off of that. The only problem is that it leaves you at mid screen vs Nu. If her barrier / guard libra is low, it almost certainly will guard crush though.
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