king of heart Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 My problem is that's my friend loves to spam 4B and 2C with Nu those moves are just like dragon punches with less recovery
dragontamer Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 That doesn't make sense. Dragon Punches are invincible from frame 1. 2C doesn't come out till frame 10. (9 frames of startup). And unless you are spamming lows (why spam lows? 5A spam is so godly)... 4B shouldn't be an issue either.
king of heart Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 "Dragon Punches are very risky on block. 2C is ridiculously safe on block " and how can say about a move that have upper and lower body invincibility and its overhead shouldn't be "an issue" any way when i finally manage to got close to her her godly normals are waiting
Axle_the_red Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 "Dragon Punches are very risky on block. 2C is ridiculously safe on block " and how can say about a move that have upper and lower body invincibility and its overhead shouldn't be "an issue" any way when i finally manage to got close to her her godly normals are waiting Haven't been paying attention...but here's some advice from my own experience... Nu's normals will not help her when you get in close. Her options are SOOOO limited when you're close. You can do two things when you're close to Nu: apply pressure, pressure, pressure! or wait, block, punish. If you're going to apply pressure, you're probably going to win out pretty easily. Overheads, lows, Noel is BUILT for pressure. Nu...isn't from a close range. The options Nu has are: GTFO. She can't do much from close. Everything Nu does leads to either keeping you far away, or getting you far away again. If you're going to wait, block, and punish...that's a viable option too. Seems like this would be a better option for you since you're having trouble with Nu's normals. The game that Nu plays when you're in her face is VERY limited. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but her mixup is TERRIBLE. I've never noticed an overhead (aside from a jumping sickle of some kind...I don't know it's name), and the general trend I've observed is that Nus enjoy trying to hit low. Once they get you airborne...they can remove you from their face. If you're going to block and punish, observe what they attempt to do, and then well...punish. There are only so many strings they can actually pull off safely and being close to Nu really REALLY messes her up. Her strings will end and you'll be able to punish accordingly. Watch for the backdash though. Nu will often attempt to escape pressure by using her dash to put a lot of distance between you. All very vague advice and I apologize. I don't have any specific counters to Nu's normals, nor do I even know what Nu's normals really are in terms of specific buttons/directions. In any case though, I enjoy fighting Nus cause I feel like I can actually turn the tables on her. Many people seem to be displeased with Nu, but I don't really mind. :D
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 Haven't been paying attention...but here's some advice from my own experience... Nu's normals will not help her when you get in close. Her options are SOOOO limited when you're close. You can do two things when you're close to Nu: apply pressure, pressure, pressure! or wait, block, punish. If you're going to apply pressure, you're probably going to win out pretty easily. Overheads, lows, Noel is BUILT for pressure. Nu...isn't from a close range. The options Nu has are: GTFO. She can't do much from close. Everything Nu does leads to either keeping you far away, or getting you far away again. If you're going to wait, block, and punish...that's a viable option too. Seems like this would be a better option for you since you're having trouble with Nu's normals. The game that Nu plays when you're in her face is VERY limited. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but her mixup is TERRIBLE. I've never noticed an overhead (aside from a jumping sickle of some kind...I don't know it's name), and the general trend I've observed is that Nus enjoy trying to hit low. Once they get you airborne...they can remove you from their face. If you're going to block and punish, observe what they attempt to do, and then well...punish. There are only so many strings they can actually pull off safely and being close to Nu really REALLY messes her up. Her strings will end and you'll be able to punish accordingly. Watch for the backdash though. Nu will often attempt to escape pressure by using her dash to put a lot of distance between you. All very vague advice and I apologize. I don't have any specific counters to Nu's normals, nor do I even know what Nu's normals really are in terms of specific buttons/directions. In any case though, I enjoy fighting Nus cause I feel like I can actually turn the tables on her. Many people seem to be displeased with Nu, but I don't really mind. :D Nu's normals are GODLY. unless youre 5A pressuring, Nu should have an easy time getting out. Even then if you whiff a 5A on backdash, get ready to get 2C'd or returned into pressure from nu. and btw overheads + lows dont mean pressure. If your opponent knows where to place their priority in blocking during certain parts of strings and react to mixups accordingly, what do you do? 5A. But even then nu has that godly backdash. 6C 2C 236A/B can keep nu blocking, or punish a backdash. Watch your opponent. Its all a guessing game.
dragontamer Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 "Dragon Punches are very risky on block. 2C is ridiculously safe on block " Dragon Punches have full invincible startup. 2C is not. and how can say about a move that have upper and lower body invincibility and its overhead shouldn't be "an issue" Because it is only lowerbody invincible (it is NOT upperbody invincible... wtf?), the first hit is not an overhead, and the 2nd hit comes out so slow that you can react to it. (Between the hitstop, the startup, and the active frames... you've got 27 frames to react to the 2nd hit) TK 214D is v13's mixup, not 4B. 4B goes into a nasty combo, but if you focus you should be able to react to it 100% of the time, and it is not a defensive option... any way when i finally manage to got close to her her godly normals are waiting What is your approach? IAD loses to 2C unless you instant block / barrier block, and the ground game needs to be ready for both 5D and 3C. Focus on punishing whiffs. Once you are in, you are in: Nu's only option left is to backdash. Stay on her on wakeups, tech chase her and remain at point-blank range at all times.
king of heart Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 when i stay on her on wake up i eat a counter hit 2C also the her 3C has a ridiculous range and much faster then my 2C and 3C she can even see me doing a 3C an than punish me using her 3C and you should recheck about the 4B upper invincibility
Axle_the_red Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 when i stay on her on wake up i eat a counter hit 2C also the her 3C has a ridiculous range and much faster then my 2C and 3C she can even see me doing a 3C an than punish me using her 3C and you should recheck about the 4B upper invincibility Hrm...let me try again. Ignore the fail post I made earlier... Staying on her on wake up...mayhaps some 2D or jD shenanigans? If she's going low...2D is pretty awesome to hop over things. 6B is cool too...extends range a bit and causes crouch...maybe that will keep you out of range of her 2C? I'm not sure... 3C isn't really safe at all to just throw out... Here's a bit of advice again (please correct me if I'm wrong as earlier ). On wakeup, play with them a bit. Don't always rush...if you're eating a 2C counter, try and bait it. Maybe some 4D? Optic Barrel even (they NEVER see it coming...I mean...who uses optic barrel? :D). Backdash jD...if they consistently do something, expect it and react appropriately. That is assuming I know what 2C is for Nu...that's her low swipe right? Not her long reaching swipe? Hope that helps...and is actually accurate.
ioKain Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 5A or 6B on oki. If you are getting beat, you're timing is off. ALWAYS, rush that shit down when playing Nu.
dragontamer Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 King of Heart, it sounds like your Oki strategy is off. First: Chase the opponent's wakeup, there are only 4 options your opponent can do. 1. Techroll forward -- This is beaten by a well timed 2B, 5A, etc. etc. You can combo Nu out if she techrolls forward. (similarly, she can combo you, so be careful about rolling forward) 2. Techrolll backwards -- Against most characters, be careful (ie: Jin can techroll back and then 623A) However, Nu has no options. You can only execute specials out of a roll, Nu doesn't have anything that she can do out of this roll. (Unlike Dragon Punches, Tager's 720C, etc. etc.). So just tech chase and apply pressure. 3. Neutral Tech -- Opponent is fully invunerable, but can't do anything. A well timed meaty attack (6B is a good meaty) will beat her if she mashes out. Well timed 5A spam will beat anything Nu tries to do. 4. Quick Rise -- Opponent is completely vunerable, but gets up quickly. Justs smack her as she gets up, and start a combo. No matter the situation, you get the first hit on Nu. Nu has NO wakeup options, you should always beat her on wakeup. -------------- Also, don't use 3C outside of combos / pressure. Hell, I'd say never use it outside of hitconfirms. 3C is an extremely unsafe attack, its even less safe than Jin's Ice Car. So don't use it carelessly. 2C is a decent attack when applying pressure, but it is slow Focus on Noel's pressure game, which involves a generous heaping of 5A and throws.
Genegrifter Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Seeing as this is the first time I've seen anybody even mention methods of tech-punishing, mind giving me a quick rundown on which is Neutral Tech and which is Quick Rise?
Senovit Posted November 6, 2009 Posted November 6, 2009 Neutral is just pressing A B or C while down. You'll flash white and be fully invincible. Quick rise is pressing 2A 2B or 2C while down. You will not be invincible at all, but you will rise much faster and without the flash.
dragontamer Posted November 8, 2009 Posted November 8, 2009 The thing about "beating" neutral tech is that you need to wait a long time (~30 frames or so) and then time your attack to hit them as their invincibility frames finish. (if they are blocking, at least you got them in a block string, and you can probably convert that into a mixup) "Beating" quick rise means you need to just mash 5A (or some attack) as soon as they get up. So when waking up, a good mixup between neutral tech and quick-rise is almost always healthy. (Not vs most D spamming Nus. D Spam is practically always beaten by a well timed neutral tech -> dash in while Nu recovers from a whiffed sword)
xntrikcat Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Noel's CA is godly for this matchup. It's a really convenient rebel ender. When a typical nu bursts, you get knocked down. She'll often throw a 5D sword on wakeup. You CA the first one, and if they follow up with the second 5D, you can dash right in and land a 6A into BnB. Though if you abuse this too much, good nu's will only throw the first 5D and command dash, etc. Use sparingly, when the nu doesn't expect it!
jags861 Posted December 28, 2009 Posted December 28, 2009 is it possible not to get damaged if nu grabs you in the air? even if you break it, she hits you with 2 swords. can you block those or are you screwed?
tokyobassist Posted December 31, 2009 Posted December 31, 2009 Good pieces of advice. This will help as I always have 50/50 matches depending on the Nu player.
DC Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 lol what a terrible matchup for Noel, I hope it gets better in CS.
dragontamer Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 lol what a terrible matchup for Noel, I hope it gets better in CS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Noel one of the better matchups vs Nu13? I know Nu has an advantage on everyone except like, Jin and Bang, but Noel players can't really complain about Nu13. We've got the fastest ground running speed. Nu's best normals are also from crouch (2C and 3C), putting Nu at a dangerous position vs Noel. Its not like Tager / Haks / Arakune vs Nu, at least according to the matchup chart.
ShinobiBrown Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 Yeah, the match was rated either 6:4 or 5.5:4.5, Nu's favor. I know it was debated for a bit. Not that bad a match up, but still annoying. v-13's a bitch regardless.
Halcyone3 Posted January 7, 2010 Posted January 7, 2010 We've got the fastest ground running speed. if i remember correctly bang is faster EDIT: now im not sure, gimme a sec, ill look the info up EDIT2: ok, bang and nu have better speed but slower start-ups for the dash, so i guess overall roughly same speed............................ argh i can't read this worth shit, some1 else interpret pls -,- http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/958720/56115 it's a bit down in the page, in the movement section of the system guide
DC Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 Nu's best normals are also from crouch (2C and 3C), putting Nu at a dangerous position vs Noel. I can't imagine why a Nu would be that close to Noel.
dragontamer Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 if i remember correctly bang is faster EDIT: now im not sure, gimme a sec, ill look the info up EDIT2: ok, bang and nu have better speed but slower start-ups for the dash, so i guess overall roughly same speed............................ argh i can't read this worth shit, some1 else interpret pls -,- http://www.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcade/file/958720/56115 it's a bit down in the page, in the movement section of the system guide I used this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/02#dash And basic physics to get the following Result: After 13 frames, Noel is faster than Bang, and after 33 frames, she's faster than Nu. Unfortunately, Noel caps out in 22 frames, so she's slower than Nu, and only faster than Bang for between 13-frames and 22 frames. The period of which Noel has "covered more distance" than Bang is even smaller. Using the "distance covered" equation (d0 + v0*t + a0/2 * t^2), it appears that Noel only "covers more ground" after 25 frames of running. (Meaning both Nu and Bang always cover more ground than Noel) Long story short: I'm wrong, but Noel is still DAMN fast :-p EDIT: lol: Tager is fastest at walking backwards. Who knew? I can't imagine why a Nu would be that close to Noel. Cause she whiffed a sword, is taking Oki pressure, decided to act-pulsar crossup, etc. etc.
Halcyone3 Posted January 8, 2010 Posted January 8, 2010 I used this: http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/02#dash its the exact same rly, same author and all
Grendy Posted April 26, 2010 Posted April 26, 2010 Does anyone know when Noel can 5D to get past Nu's 5D? I've gotten it to work a few times strickly on luck. Lately a lot of Nu's I've been fighting have been doing 5DD 6DD 2147D~C 5DD 6DD against me. IAD after the 2147D works pretty well but a CH 5D into 5D 6C seems to net a lot more damage. So yeah I guess my question here is should I 5D immediately after the TK fient or do I need to wait for her 5D to begin?
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