10stars Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 This fight reminds me of Testament v Johnny. Limited ways to move in, and limited ways to be safe. Bangs have a one up on getting in though, because of his second air dash. Keep in mind that Rachels 6a is almost as retarded as Ragnas, so it isn't really a good idea to be predictable with your jump ins. The opener Rachel players have enough options to do pretty much whatever they want off start. They can jump, throw bean bags, summon pumpkins, wind away, wind at you etc. So it's a reaction and guessing game with her. Keep in mind that Rachel has high damage, and very good oki. Moving in on her is also hard. Drive nails are the best opener, but I don't advise throwing too many nails away too fast. If she decides to beanbag + 6 wind at the beginning to push you back, you can 3c under it for a counter hit. Keep in mind that 3c is not safe on block, and if she opts to block then you're getting punished and setup for strong oki. If she decides to jump and beanbag, you can beat it out with j.A. If she decides to fish for a 6b counter hit, a perfectly timed 3c will counter hit it. A slightly slow 3c will get counter hit OR will trade for double counter hits. If you see it coming and you have good neutral timing, go for it. TK B nails work against 6b fishing as well, they also cover air beanbag openers, as well as neutral jump / blocking. TK B nails will be beaten out by standing beanbags. If Rachel opts to take the safest road she has, she's going to IAD back, and pumpkin summon, wind towards you, or beanbag. If she decides to do this, she's made the fight hard for bang already, and he has to find a way to get in, which most likely will come at the cost of drive nails. Bang Oki I don't advise jump canceling too much in this fight, Rachels with decent reaction time will 6a you, or wind you away from her almost every time. The only other thing to look out for when you're on the offensive, is her 2c chair. It has a guard point on it. However the startup is very long on it and you can 2d it for a free counter hit, or simply block it and punish afterward since the recovery is so terrible. She can mash 2c to hit you from blockstrings if you 5c for the overhead, keep it in mind. Your 5a will WHIFF on Rachel if she is crouching, so unless you think she's going to high block don't always use it. Also keep in mind that this means you can 5a whiff > command throw setup. It's cute and alot of people don't react to it. Rachels throw range is TERRRRRRRRIBLE, so you can command throw a bit for oki. Distortion chair and her throw range covered, moving onto the defensive. On the defensive Rachel is one of the best high low mixup characters in the game as far as swiftness is concerned. And her damage / pressure is also nothing to laugh at. During pressure strings you need to watch for jump cancels that lead into her j.2c with wind. It's a wave dash overhead that can lead into alot of damage. Try to avoid frogs, DO NOT guard point them, Rachel can throw you during the guard point. Always keep an eye on where the pumpkins going, there's points where she'll 6 wind the pumpkin off screen, then 4 wind it back when you think you have an opportunity to move in. Her 4b is a very very slow ground overhead, you won't see it very frequently, but be ready to block it. After learning to block her wave dashes, the fight becomes alot easier. Instant blocking doesn't help you much in this fight though against a good Rachel. Still useful to learn because of the recovery and heat gain however, so I'm not saying don't do it. Because of Rachels high damage and very good mixup, I do advise dead angles in this fight to get her off of you. Drives 2d is all right at best in this fight. 5d is all right for bean bag / lightning rod tosses if you want to take a risky way to move in. 6d is BLAH BLAH BLAH GARBAGE in this fight, don't use it outside of combos.
RPGsFTW Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I fought two Rachels last Sunday. Their electric chair, 2c, seems to have a lot of priority, however, if it misses you, it should be slow enough for you to punish. Also, when Rachel starts shooting cannonballs, pre-lightning rods, don't get hit by one and tech towards her. She can shoot more and continuously hit you. Main thing, from what I noticed, was that, the Rachels I fought anyway, were easily put in bad positions when having low wind/silpheed gauges. Keeping the pressure on them preventing them from doing much, whether that be electric chair, or moving away with wind. I can't say I give the most useful tips, but I fought a bunch of characters during my Sunday tournament. Hopefully I can give more insight later.
Reioumu Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I fought two Rachels last Sunday. Their electric chair, 2c, seems to have a lot of priority, however, if it misses you, it should be slow enough for you to punish. Also, when Rachel starts shooting cannonballs, pre-lightning rods, don't get hit by one and tech towards her. She can shoot more and continuously hit you. Main thing, from what I noticed, was that, the Rachels I fought anyway, were easily put in bad positions when having low wind/silpheed gauges. Keeping the pressure on them preventing them from doing much, whether that be electric chair, or moving away with wind. I can't say I give the most useful tips, but I fought a bunch of characters during my Sunday tournament. Hopefully I can give more insight later. Yes, 2c is very easy to punish, or if you see it coming out, you can autoguard it with something with a CH 2D (just did that against my friend today) If Rachel is spamming lightning rods, you should try approaching more from the ground, or even use D Nails to approach (though you're very limited). Rachel pressure is pretty annoying too, but you gotta be very conscious about which ways her attacks hit, and you usually need to block for awhile, so you should be using that barrier. You should definitely rush her down when she's low on your silpheed gauge though, she can't do nearly as much without it. Though I'm curious to see what 10stars is going to post.
RPGsFTW Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 AtTheGates: "BnB against Rachel, corner: 5A,5B,2B,2C,2D, sj.A,B,C, mixup [1 Seal] 2404 Damage" Going off of this, Bang can 2D, j.D, 2369C (web shuriken), j.D, etc. If that is true, then Bang might also be able to do a 2A or 2B to get her off the ground, then continue into an air combo. I'm going to have to test this
Order Jeff Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 If Rachel ever fires out a lightning rod, Daifunka can standalone punish from near full screen range due to its early projectile invulnerability. Also works if she does an aerial rod from a little under 1 jump height. If she fired a short rod and you didn't activate in time, you may get hit. A smarter player may use wind to pull the shot back and down to get you, but if so, they shouldn't be able to land much more than that because they will get pushed back by their own wind. I play Soniti, amazing Rachel player, all the time and can punish nearly any cannon shot, especially from half screen. If you are at half screen distance or closer, they can't do crap. I felt this was worth mentioning because Rachel players often feel they are safe at long range just tossing these out. It also works on her setting out George if you recognize the animation within a few frames of startup and not quite fullscreen distance. Pumpkins should be punished at halfscreen only if you are certain of the first few startup frames.
TornAparT Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 this is the matchup where i use 3C the most. Can be good for getting in on Rachel if the player is throwing out rods or they throw out a pumpkin and try to charge at you. It can give you a counter hit 3C which can lead to a 2B > 623B > 2363214C for about 3776 dmg. But be warned, 3C is unsafe on block so dont go spamming it. Its just something to keep in mind.
tataki Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Bang Oki Rachels lightning distortion is a very very safe option against Bang. If you guard point it you're in for a throw, even if you advance break it you still gave up your pressure. The only way to really keep things going when she throws it against Bang is to space yourself so you don't get caught in it at all, not even blocking it. Give some spacing a try though, it's hitbox isn't that big, if you get it down, you can even counter hit her with 5a afterwards. WUT? The super has about 13 frames of startup before the super flash. During that startup you can do whatever you want to her. So it's not something she can use on wakeup.
10stars Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 WUT? The super has about 13 frames of startup before the super flash. During that startup you can do whatever you want to her. So it's not something she can use on wakeup. Are you absolutely sure? I've been hit with it on wakeup, guess it's the online laggy rachels. Updated. Kind of sucks, I've been too cautious with rachels on wakeup then.
tataki Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Are you absolutely sure? I've been hit with it on wakeup, guess it's the online laggy rachels. Updated. Kind of sucks, I've been too cautious with rachels on wakeup then. Never trust online experience in this game:psyduck: IMHO everything should be double checked in training mode before posted on the forums, to prevent false information. http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/rachel_data/ The frame data says 13+4, but I don't know what the 4 means. Maybe the super flash duration?
10stars Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 Never trust online experience in this game:psyduck: IMHO everything should be double checked in training mode before posted on the forums, to prevent false information. http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/pages/rachel_data/ The frame data says 13+4, but I don't know what the 4 means. Maybe the super flash duration? 4 is most likely the freeze yeah. Good to know, I need to stare at frame data some more for the rest of the characters to see what does and what doesn't pose a threat and what can and what can't be baited with drives. Going to take awhile before all the matchup stuff is perfect anyway.
Balk Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 4 is most likely the freeze yeah. Good to know, I need to stare at frame data some more for the rest of the characters to see what does and what doesn't pose a threat and what can and what can't be baited with drives. Going to take awhile before all the matchup stuff is perfect anyway. I believe the +4 is the additional time it takes if Rachel decides to use her Distortion in the air. I know it does take longer for that super to come out if she throws it in the air.
WUT Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 +4 is the number of startup frames after the super flash. So Baden Baden lily has 13 frames of startup, then an additional 4 frames after the super flash. 17f total.
KowtowRobinson Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Well, I finally got hit by her Astral. Felt like a total fucking tool, and turned the game off for the day. I already know what to do about it, just thought I'd share that. Q.Q
WUT Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 If Rachel pressures into 5cc from 5b or 6b you can 6d -> A teleport punish. No ib required. Only useful if You know they're going for guard crush; 6d will get raped by 3-wind j.2c and 3c mixup. If you ib in that situation you can 2d instead. I've been meaning to go through and find out exactly where you can ib, 6d vs. most character's common pressure strings. Guess I should get on that.
DaiAndOh Posted September 6, 2009 Posted September 6, 2009 I don't believe 6B is jc though, so as long you aren't being baited, could work.
KomboKaze Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 This is possibly my worse matchup atm any help on whats the best way to get in; air , ground, or (i feel) situational(both)
KowtowRobinson Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 This is possibly my worse matchup atm any help on whats the best way to get in; air , ground, or (i feel) situational(both) You do better against Arakune than Rachel? I'd love to know how, lol.
KomboKaze Posted September 7, 2009 Posted September 7, 2009 I dont know why.. probably because I used to play him.. I spent time studying his frame data
Kurumster Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 This is possibly my worse matchup atm any help on whats the best way to get in; air , ground, or (i feel) situational(both) You don't use your nails very well. Just use them at a point where Rachel is "forced" to block them. The best she can do is try to "neutralize" them with her projectiles which really does nothing for her. Watch where you're using D, you don't really use it too much though. You let me get in your head so I just started throwing you for free. Get in on Rachel and stay in. I didn't even use 2c so it's okay to be aggressive. Just don't run out of nails and you're good. Other than that you will have a hard time getting in.
Kenshuma Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 It happens to a lot of people......Unfortunately.
ocdscale Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 The poison damage from poison nail doesn't make frog or pumpkin disappear, right? (Obviously the initial hit does). Would it change anything in the matchup if it did?
sergetrigger Posted September 18, 2009 Posted September 18, 2009 Won't make the pumpkin or george disappear. If it did, then we would have a bunch of rachel players complaining.
trini1212 Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 correct me if im wrong but i was playing an racheal play the other day, can't say he was dat good but when i jump at him and he try to anti air me with 6A i D it and guard point and smack her in the head, use it in the whole match and he keep getting smack again he was not dat good, so i donno if she have better option to get out off it or stop the guard point in the air.......basically rachels 6A vs bang jd
Lord Cruxis Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Alright, I hit a bit of a problem agaisnt Rachel, if she ever somehow got the momentum and I end up blocking. I'm having trouble if they start doing this, bare with me as I dont know the buttons for her. but he/she does something i believe with a button, j.2C, a.something, j.2C, and goes on till it hits me, it ussually gets me on the second hit because I can't read that. So is there a D button I should be pressing or another option i should be taking because something has slow start up? Obviously if im low on health I'd do a barrier burst but thats risky as well. So i accept any answers for this situation and thanks.
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