lesh Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 theres so many solid blockstrings tager has Axwhatever C D, good for magnetism, though if they barrier, it leaves them out of range for the 5D, you can occasionally get away with 2D in this string (much easier if they arent looking to interrupt it). 5D is better though because you can combo into sledge. A B C 6A jump, instant j.B, landing j.C, good if they are standing, if not, delay the j.B so it hits late, you an also delay with j.B regardless of standing but it leaves a big hole. if you do early j.B, you can land 720 and they wont be in hitstun, btw. 720 or 360 after many of these, works well. A A B 720 works pretty solid. early A sledge (after an A or a B), excellent tick into 720, since A sledge doesnt stagger on hit, no need to confirm the block into 720. depending on the character, in a blockstring, mild delay, spark volt is an excellent way to bait backdash. on hit, tager can do: b sledge, CH: 6a, 2c, atomic collider (universal) 2B, 2C, atomic collider (works at most ranges) followup (have to use this on skinny characters on semi-far regular hits or really far away characters) on a sledge i just use followup Awesome stuff !
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 then dont be predictable with your blockstrings Basically this, but people with DPs are going to give you massive fits if you do anything off a 5C. Basically you are playing a guessing game and it's not really in your favor at all. Especially against Litchi. And since Kensk didn't mention it, doing 6A 3C is actually quite good on occasion. It will tag people attempting to jump out. Unfortunately due to how throws work in this game, they can actually uh... 'fuzzy escape' out of that unless you start screwing with delaying your 3C a few frames. But the real drag is you need 50% to get anything for even hitting the 3C. But you do at least get some solid damage for it when it hits. Another thing I like to do that is silly and not really very good is blocked 236B RC 6B. You can also flip it up and do 236B RC 2B 2C. That's an almost-legit Tager High-Low mixup. :I
kensk Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 2b is pretty good randomly, a lot of tagers strings become easier to interrupt standing (5d -> b sledge actually gains a hole if they block standing iirc). ive found most midish level players will simply block tager standing 90% of the time because his lows arent threatening at all. btw whats the best combo of 3c RC? assuming spark volt and no spark volt.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I honestly don't know what an ideal combo is off it but you can just do a basic one for starters: 3C RC 236B, 2B 2C 623C, 6C D I don't think you can land a 5C after that 236B in that situation unfortunately. But there's probably much better stuff than that... maybe 3C RC 6C 236B to start?
kensk Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 ill fuck with it in the morning when i wakeup and post results.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Well that one above doesn't work but here's some stuff that does: 3C RC, 6C 623C, 6C D [3262] - Easy, boring. 3C RC, 6A 2C 623C, 6C D [3919] - Kind weird. 6A 3C RC, 6A 623C, 6C D [4181] 3C RC, 236B, 2B 2C 623C, 41236D, 5C 623C [4493] 6A 3C RC, 6A 2C 623C, 41236D, 5C 623C [5038] - Also kind of weird. I'm sure there's gotta be better than this though.
Mike Z Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 If you already have Spark charge, you can just do (6A->)3C, 5B xx Spark, etc.
Suichi Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Kind of dumb question, but sometimes after hitting someone, then immediately going into a 720 I'll get a pink !!, BUT, I see them clearly attacking me indicating they're not in hit/blockstun (for example.. Ragna's 5B was in the middle of the animation yet it still gave them the chance to break) What's the deal with that?
Osuna Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Kind of dumb question, but sometimes after hitting someone, then immediately going into a 720 I'll get a pink !!, BUT, I see them clearly attacking me indicating they're not in hit/blockstun (for example.. Ragna's 5B was in the middle of the animation yet it still gave them the chance to break) What's the deal with that? If there was an X over the pink it is because they are protected a little bit after they recover, but if they are getting thrown out of an attack this is nullified by the counter hit.
Mike Z Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Also it appears if they attack out of the protected time and the attack is not in startup counterhit frames, you will grab the attack and they get the protected chance to break anyway.
Isorropia Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Wait, I'm confused. In my training mode, with wakeup set to 'quick', they do the flip up, and 'neutral' they do the stand animation. :S
DontPutDownSci Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Hi guys, Been lurking on the forums here for a while, but decided to register because I got tired of doing so. Okay, that and I have a couple of Tager related questions. 1) What am I doing wrong with Tager, when I can never get Tager's Atomic Collider to snatch an opponent after doing something like 2B, 2C, AC. The AC always seems to fail to grab, I'm guessing it's because my timing, but I generally get the AC out pretty fast. 2) I noticed that Tager, and probably the other characters have different vocabulary sets for moves. Like instead of saying "Sledge!" he'll shout instead, or instead of saying "Atomic Collider!" he'll yell "Plasma!" or "Don't Put Down Science!" instead. Is there anyway to control which set you'll get, or is it random? Thanks.
HZMN Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Hi guys, Been lurking on the forums here for a while, but decided to register because I got tired of doing so. Okay, that and I have a couple of Tager related questions. 1) What am I doing wrong with Tager, when I can never get Tager's Atomic Collider to snatch an opponent after doing something like 2B, 2C, AC. The AC always seems to fail to grab, I'm guessing it's because my timing, but I generally get the AC out pretty fast. 2) I noticed that Tager, and probably the other characters have different vocabulary sets for moves. Like instead of saying "Sledge!" he'll shout instead, or instead of saying "Atomic Collider!" he'll yell "Plasma!" or "Don't Put Down Science!" instead. Is there anyway to control which set you'll get, or is it random? Thanks. 1)If your doing it quick enough 2B>2C>AC should snatch unless your holding AC rather than just a quick tap. 2)Some of it is character specific others is random
bjholmes2 Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Yes, you need to make sure that you are releasing the C button quickly, as the move won't grab the opponent until you do so.
DontPutDownSci Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 Ah! That's probably it, I am holding (AC)C too long. Thanks guys!
fragile Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 What do you guys usually do when your B sledge is IBed? My friend started to that alot and then he mashes 5a (he plays noel) 360a loses to it since I'm at -2 frame disadvantage and his 5a comes out in 5 frames and beats it easily. If I backdash his mash 5A stuffs that, the only thing that counters is a well timed 720. (assuming he mashes 5a and will eat a counter) got anything else in mind? I think barrier the first hit and do something afterward will do some good.
Koozebanian Fazoob Posted August 11, 2009 Posted August 11, 2009 -2 SD and a 5F jab means you should still be able to 360A to beat it. Just do it faster.
Astaroth136 Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Two questions here. 1. Technically speaking, what is the difference between 360A/B and 720. Is 720 like a 1-frame catch like Gief's 720 in SF4, while 360A/B has startup frames. I think the ability to hold it down confuses me here. I mean, if there are 720 tech traps, why isn't there 360A tech traps? The way I see it, 360A traps can happen if you release it on the exact right frame. Maybe I'm way off, and sorry if I confused anyone... 2. Why is it that neutral techs can ruin 720 tech traps? For example, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQFBCHzKOW0) at 4:20, MikeZ said that Tager activated the second 720 too early (it could be jumped). Why is this?
Osuna Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Two questions here. 1. Technically speaking, what is the difference between 360A/B and 720. Is 720 like a 1-frame catch like Gief's 720 in SF4, while 360A/B has startup frames. I think the ability to hold it down confuses me here. I mean, if there are 720 tech traps, why isn't there 360A tech traps? The way I see it, 360A traps can happen if you release it on the exact right frame. Maybe I'm way off, and sorry if I confused anyone... 2. Why is it that neutral techs can ruin 720 tech traps? For example, in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQFBCHzKOW0) at 4:20, MikeZ said that Tager activated the second 720 too early (it could be jumped). Why is this?360 has 3 frames of vulnerable start up then it is invulnerable for 8 frames then active 1 frame, you can hold it to increase the start up, but not the invulnerability or the active frames. It also has pretty long range. 360B has much shorter range (the same range as his regular throw) but does more damage and goes active after 8 frames, you can't hold it as long but the extra frames are active frames. 720 has super mega awesome reach, and 5 frames of invulnerable start up and if the are vulnerable to the throw during the super flash you already have them. If not then they can land and jump safely. You can hold it for more active frames. There aren't very many 360A tech traps because it is only active one frame and has 11 frames of start up minimum
HZMN Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I don't know but I had something extremely odd happen today. I was facing Noel and I had her in the corner. Did a 2D tech trap and when she neutral teched again in the corner there was an open palm of Genesic waiting for her. Normally Genesic wins since a Neutral tech in the corner + an Active Genesic = a dead opponent usually. But for some stupid reason, when she teched, she ended up whipping out her ground super and completely stuffs Genesic as if it was never active.
Isorropia Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I'm gonna guess throw invulnerable frames and/or invincible startup super on her part?
kensk Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 But for some stupid reason, when she teched, she ended up whipping out her ground super and completely stuffs Genesic as if it was never active. GETB has 5? frames of startup, if she input the super during the 6 frames before it start up (but you were stuck doing it), it will beat GETB. Sometimes this will cause the flash to happen after yours, but that happens with any invincible super with pre-flash startup (most commonly seen with Blood Kain). Edit: If you want to see if a move has pre super flash startup, look in frame data, and look in the start up box, any PRE flash startup is indicated as the first number before a +, and any POST flash startup is indicated after the +. So GET is something like 5+0, meaning that it has 5 activation frames before the flash, and goes active instantly after it (otherwise people would be able to jump out on reaction).
Mike Z Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 But for some stupid reason, when she teched, she ended up whipping out her ground super and completely stuffs Genesic as if it was never active.Actually, the answer to this and the other question about why the 2nd 720 was too early are the same: Basically: a too-early held 720 isn't guaranteed. In the vid, the 720 was too early because the opponent could have just held Up and escaped; and Noel can reversal super for the same reason. To do it properly you want to have the 720 flash happen on the frame the neutral tech finishes. Analyzed: If they are vulnerable to throws on the frame of the 720's super flash, they get grabbed and there's nothing they can do. However, if they are not vulnerable to throws, for example in the middle of a neutral tech, then after that animation finishes it's possible to go straight from that to jumping (also not throwable), or a reversal throw-invin move (Noel's super has full-body autoguard until 9f after the flash, which will guard throws) and avoid having any frames where the 720 could grab you. It is worth noting that if the opponent neutral techs and holds Up during the tech so they will jump as soon as it is over, there is NO WAY for you to 720 them before they jump, perfectly timed or not. They are going from throw-invin to throw-invin. The same goes for reversal throw-invin moves. The reason it was too early in the video is because the opponent hadn't finished his tech, so he could still have reacted during the super flash, held Up, and escaped. All a perfectly-timed 720 buys you is if they weren't already holding Up, they can't get out.
HZMN Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Thanks for clearing that up Now how to deal with players that seem to never leave the 7 8 and 9 positions on the pad/stick. The Psychic Collider is ok in some instances but some moves are impossible without reading them 20 years out. Not to mention any kind of jumping crossup seems to be the bane of Tager's existence (and zoners). Plus Tagers own jump is already a slight bit slower, so jumping with them isn't an option either. what would you suggest?
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