MaximusMurkimus Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 11 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: I wonder what can happen if we complete Act 1 with Izanami. If it won't the act 3 trailer. I was also thinking about this: The arcade is already showing the possible end of Izanami, even in act 2, but then... what story will the console version have? I'm guessing there's something much worse out there like Nine mentioned that threatens even Izanami's existence, so everyone ceases fire and decides to take it on. That way she's not out of the picture after act 2, in the arcades at least.
Fangs Of Despair Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 I still think all these acts are just dreams.... Be ready for the true story in cs story mode
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: I'm guessing there's something much worse out there like Nine mentioned that threatens even Izanami's existence, so everyone ceases fire and decides to take it on. That way she's not out of the picture after act 2, in the arcades at least. Oh, I see. So that means our final boss will be something that we never (maybe) saw during Blazblue Story... Why do I feel that will be something like Takemikazuchi?
kylehyde Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 Given how much attention has been brought up about Ragna's evil within, I think it would be a pretty good assumption to guess that he may be the final boss of the game. Rachel descibes it as a power that would destroy the world.
Luminos564 Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, kylehyde said: Given how much attention has been brought up about Ragna's evil within, I think it would be a pretty good assumption to guess that he may be the final boss of the game. Rachel descibes it as a power that would destroy the world. Maybe, but there is the "tradition" that in ASW games, the final boss is usually a lady. CT was Nu-13. CS was Mu-12. CP was Nu-13 again unless you count Izanami controlling/commanding Takemikazuchi more fitting to the role. Similarly, so far we can say that the boss of Act 1 in CF is Nine. Act 2 is most likely Izanami herself. Act 3 boss at this point could be anyone, even Amaterasu (assuming the Master Unit even HAS a gender). Oh and I was able to see what cr1ms0n was saying. Izanami DEFINITELY has "the mark" on the lower portion of her battle dress. You can see it in her trailer when they flash over the full group photo with all the central players in CF and there's a close up of Izanami's legs. So now we have 3 characters that bear that mark: Ragna, Naoto and Izanami. Now the better question is: for what reason?
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Luminos564 said: Oh and I was able to see what cr1ms0n was saying. Izanami DEFINITELY has "the mark" on the lower portion of her battle dress. You can see it in her trailer when they flash over the full group photo with all the central players in CF and there's a close up of Izanami's legs. So now we have 3 characters that bear that mark: Ragna, Naoto and Izanami. Now the better question is: for what reason? Can Someone explain this thing about "the mark" for me, please, I didn't catched it...
Luminos564 Posted January 20, 2016 Posted January 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: Can Someone explain this thing about "the mark" for me, please, I didn't catched it... It's this one. That one is Ragna's. Naoto has one in the same location as Ragna's own. And Izanami also bears the mark on the white portion of her dress, though you only see it in the group shot rather than on her portrait. Curiously, hers is the only one that's on clothing as both Ragna and Naoto's seem to have been branded on their skin.
Myoro Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Wow I'm a mess, posted in the wrong topic. :p But anyway, with the arcade systems being patched there's gonna be new arcade routes/stories... I wonder how that'll translate to console arcade mode..?
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 I wonder how CF's gonna address whether or not Ragna is still trying to save Saya. He hesitated hard at the end of CP and it ended up costing him, but in this one he seemed determined to "end this", but it's kinda ambiguous as to what he means by that. Matter of fact, is Rachel the only one that realizes that it's Izanami now? Ragna and Jin seemed oblivious throughout CP, and Noel only had that one interaction with her in the anime, where seeing her caused her to freak out.
kylehyde Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: I wonder how CF's gonna address whether or not Ragna is still trying to save Saya. He hesitated hard at the end of CP and it ended up costing him, but in this one he seemed determined to "end this", but it's kinda ambiguous as to what he means by that. Matter of fact, is Rachel the only one that realizes that it's Izanami now? Ragna and Jin seemed oblivious throughout CP, and Noel only had that one interaction with her in the anime, where seeing her caused her to freak out. Personally I think Ragna is gonna try to save her like he does with everyone. In CP Rachel was doubting he had what it took to kill his own sister, but he was sure he could do it. We all know how that turned out, but I doubt he will just out right kill her after everything is all said and done. And by kill I mean destroying the body, cause we all know death can't be killed.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, kylehyde said: Personally I think Ragna is gonna try to save her like he does with everyone. In CP Rachel was doubting he had what it took to kill his own sister, but he was sure he could do it. We all know how that turned out, but I doubt he will just out right kill her after everything is all said and done. And by kill I mean destroying the body, cause we all know death can't be killed. I like the theory someone had where Lambda-11 was brought back so that Saya's conscience could be safely transferred to her, being a blank slate and all. Ragna can kill Izanami with no hesitation. She is basically what Saya would normally look like now, anyway.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 1 minute ago, MaximusMurkimus said: I like the theory someone had where Lambda-11 was brought back so that Saya's conscience could be safely transferred to her, being a blank slate and all. Ragna can kill Izanami with no hesitation. She is basically what Saya would normally look like now, anyway. This can be true, however, even being a "blank state" doesn't she still having Nu memories? Like what happened in CS?
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 15 minutes ago, JustaMaskedFreak said: This can be true, however, even being a "blank state" doesn't she still having Nu memories? Like what happened in CS? She was acting on Nu's memories that time, since she used her soul as a base. Nothing she remembered was likely her own. That being said, Nu's memories are basically just (violent) interpretations of Saya's feelings for Ragna anyway, so maybe Saya is unconsciously aiding Ragna through Lambda/Nu?
kylehyde Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: She was acting on Nu's memories that time, since she used her soul as a base. Nothing she remembered was likely her own. That being said, Nu's memories are basically just (violent) interpretations of Saya's feelings for Ragna anyway, so maybe Saya is unconsciously aiding Ragna through Lambda/Nu? I think Saya is still Saya since Izanami did say that her vessel desired Ragna. Seeming to suggest that Saya is still very much alive somewhere in there. Also I don't really like the idea of them using Lamda as a vessel for Saya. Lamda seems to be her own person, that would be awfully sad to forfeit her life just so that Saya can live on.
Luminos564 Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, kylehyde said: I think Saya is still Saya since Izanami did say that her vessel desired Ragna. Seeming to suggest that Saya is still very much alive somewhere in there. Also I don't really like the idea of them using Lamda as a vessel for Saya. Lamda seems to be her own person, that would be awfully sad to forfeit her life just so that Saya can live on. I second this. A major part of Ragna's more human moments is how he interacts with with each and every Murakumo unit. With Lambda his only moment was upon her sacrifice and by then he referred to her as Nu. But she is clinging to him so dearly that she is able to come back from the dead by solely focusing on his image. Furthermore, she's willing to take on Haku-men, ignoring her own internal defense OS and forcing herself to fight solely for his sake. With Noel/Mu he made sure to treat her like a person as much as possible, even making it a point that it doesn't matter if you are built or born, if your organs are real or constructed, you're still you. It can be argued that Noel is closest to what Saya was to him because he is treating her as a human being even after her revelation that Noel is in turn able to undergo her own character development. Lastly with Nu he's rather antagonistic but that's expected on his side. However he's since made great strides and offered a helping hand to her despite all that happened. It backfired spectacularly though, but it is the thought that counts. But anyway the point is, despite units 11-13 all being clones of his sister, Ragna never treats any of them as Saya's replacement. For better or ill, he treats each of them as their own separate entity. Furthermore, the man himself nearly blew out his voice yelling at Kokonoe for wanting to sacrifice Celica to activate Kushinada's Lynchpin. Do you honestly think he'd be willing to let the same happen to Lambda just so that Saya can take over her body?
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, Luminos564 said: I second this. A major part of Ragna's more human moments is how he interacts with with each and every Murakumo unit. With Lambda his only moment was upon her sacrifice and by then he referred to her as Nu. But she is clinging to him so dearly that she is able to come back from the dead by solely focusing on his image. Furthermore, she's willing to take on Haku-men, ignoring her own internal defense OS and forcing herself to fight solely for his sake. With Noel/Mu he made sure to treat her like a person as much as possible, even making it a point that it doesn't matter if you are built or born, if your organs are real or constructed, you're still you. It can be argued that Noel is closest to what Saya was to him because he is treating her as a human being even after her revelation that Noel is in turn able to undergo her own character development. Lastly with Nu he's rather antagonistic but that's expected on his side. However he's since made great strides and offered a helping hand to her despite all that happened. It backfired spectacularly though, but it is the thought that counts. But anyway the point is, despite units 11-13 all being clones of his sister, Ragna never treats any of them as Saya's replacement. For better or ill, he treats each of them as their own separate entity. Furthermore, the man himself nearly blew out his voice yelling at Kokonoe for wanting to sacrifice Celica to activate Kushinada's Lynchpin. Do you honestly think he'd be willing to let the same happen to Lambda just so that Saya can take over her body? I admit I'd feel a little terrible if Lambda had to take one for the team yet again. I just don't see how he's gonna simultaneously save Saya and stop Izanami. He seems to be the only one who cares (as opposed to Tsubaki, that was a three-person affair) and he's out of arms to sacrifice. Then again, he's 2-0 in saves (save Noel, stop Mu-12/ save Celica, stop Terumi) so maybe he'll figure something out before he faces her.
kylehyde Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Well as far as I can tell, Izanami only needs a vessel, if they can somehow trick Izanami into changing vessels, that would be the only way Saya could be saved. Either that or some story mechanic that has yet to be revealed.
JustaMaskedFreak Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 What if they use Muchorin as the same way when used on Terumi? Could they materialize her out Saya body or something like that?
Axiomatic Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 Wall of Text incoming: Sorry to throw a wrench in the discussion, but where was it stated that Saya wanted to be "saved"? From what I know about vessels in Blazblue, the body has to willingly accept the surrogate soul ala Terumi/Kazuma relationship in Phase Shift 1 for whatever reason. I know Terumi and Relius kidnapped her to be a vessel at least in Wheel of Fortune, but what if they pulled something like they did on Noel in CS where they made her hate the world or showed her "the truth [Terumi] calls DESPAIR" or some shit? I might just being a stickler, but whatever this "Truth" is or Central Fiction, it certainly made Nine go Team Amatarasu Must Die (though I imagine being made a zombie slave didn't help matters). Izanami is certainly using Saya for her own agenda, but I would personally like more details about how much Saya is really in the body. I believe one of the novelizations, either Calamity Trigger or Continuum Shift describe how it works for Terumi and Hazama where they sort of do a mental Lord of the Flies conch-shell thing where they "tag-out" for which consciousness is in control of the body. I'd appreciate a reference to any piece of lore that shows Saya really is a hostage in her own body rather than some kind of Stockholm-syndrome accomplice to Izanami. The only thing I can think of is how Izanami mentions how her vessel hates Hazama/Terumi in CP for taking her way from her family/"breaking" her. I'd have to play CP again to refresh my memory about the exact quote. I agree with JustaMaskedFreak idea about Muchroin being the easily justifiable way to fix everything with body swaps and etc. I mean, Trinity could use Muchoirn (Isn't it technically her since she put her soul in it?) to make herself playable if she wanted or a handy-dandy 100% power Hakumen body for herself. [what don't really have any hard rules about its limits]
Lorde-Zero Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 4 hours ago, kylehyde said: Well as far as I can tell, Izanami only needs a vessel, if they can somehow trick Izanami into changing vessels, that would be the only way Saya could be saved. Either that or some story mechanic that has yet to be revealed. It could be possible with Muchorin's power or some Kokonoe magic/science thing. As for the Act 3 boss, Amaterasu could work.
Chaoschao222 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Posted January 21, 2016 Consider the following; Act III's boss will likely be made very apparent once Act II releases, just like Izanami in Act I. Another reminder I tire of; Alpha-1 is nothing. She has no place anywhere as she's just a series of sketches. She's as canon as Arakune futomaki.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 7 hours ago, Axiomatic said: Wall of Text incoming: Sorry to throw a wrench in the discussion, but where was it stated that Saya wanted to be "saved"? From what I know about vessels in Blazblue, the body has to willingly accept the surrogate soul ala Terumi/Kazuma relationship in Phase Shift 1 for whatever reason. I know Terumi and Relius kidnapped her to be a vessel at least in Wheel of Fortune, but what if they pulled something like they did on Noel in CS where they made her hate the world or showed her "the truth [Terumi] calls DESPAIR" or some shit? I might just being a stickler, but whatever this "Truth" is or Central Fiction, it certainly made Nine go Team Amatarasu Must Die (though I imagine being made a zombie slave didn't help matters). Izanami is certainly using Saya for her own agenda, but I would personally like more details about how much Saya is really in the body. I believe one of the novelizations, either Calamity Trigger or Continuum Shift describe how it works for Terumi and Hazama where they sort of do a mental Lord of the Flies conch-shell thing where they "tag-out" for which consciousness is in control of the body. I'd appreciate a reference to any piece of lore that shows Saya really is a hostage in her own body rather than some kind of Stockholm-syndrome accomplice to Izanami. The only thing I can think of is how Izanami mentions how her vessel hates Hazama/Terumi in CP for taking her way from her family/"breaking" her. I'd have to play CP again to refresh my memory about the exact quote. I agree with JustaMaskedFreak idea about Muchroin being the easily justifiable way to fix everything with body swaps and etc. I mean, Trinity could use Muchoirn (Isn't it technically her since she put her soul in it?) to make herself playable if she wanted or a handy-dandy 100% power Hakumen body for herself. [what don't really have any hard rules about its limits] I always figured when Terumi said he "broke" her before by showing her memories, he only did it enough to let her mental guard down and let Izanami in, just like what he did with Noel. After all, if it worked once before, why not do it the exact same way again? But when you consider that Saya gave Jin his Yukinesca before Terumi even got involved, it makes you wonder why would this be needed if apparently Saya was already cooperative in the first place. Either that means Saya was apparently cooperative before she got possessed (which I don't see happening), or Izanami was already possessing her before the attack at the church (probable). In flashbacks she also didn't seem to resist when Terumi took her along with Jin, so maybe it was just a case of Terumi doing the same mind control to her as he did with Jin. There's certainly some degree of cooperation going on between them, of course (otherwise she wouldn't have felt inclined to approach Ragna in Chapter 1 and offer to join her), but I doubt it's as mutual as it's made out to be. As far as clues that all isn't as well as it seems, Izanami mentions that she still has some things to do before "this vessel is completely mine" while she was in the Boundary in CP, which means that something must not have been working right despite how compatible they are. Even Relius mentioned that things aren't completely stable yet at the beginning of CP, but she didn't seem bothered at the time. Nine's sudden turn to darkness doesn't really seem all that surprising when you consider that Amaterasu is the cause of her father neglecting them over his work and having Celica almost turned into a sacrificial lamb. She's basically tired of being a cog for the Amaterasu Unit and wants to impact the timeline directly. It's only natural that she was ready to kill it on sight when she had the means to, in this case joining Team Izanami. I though about Muchorin as well, and it's certainly possible within the game's established rules, but something tells me that if that was the case, then Trinity wouldn't have attached herself to Jin in CF like she did. Maybe she could take it past its established limitations and give her and Saya physical bodies once more.
VermilionBird Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 23 minutes ago, MaximusMurkimus said: I always figured when Terumi said he "broke" her before by showing her memories, he only did it enough to let her mental guard down and let Izanami in, just like what he did with Noel. After all, if it worked once before, why not do it the exact same way again? But when you consider that Saya gave Jin his Yukinesca before Terumi even got involved, Terumi gave Saya the Yukianesa the same time he destroyed her mind. Can't remember exactly how.
MaximusMurkimus Posted January 21, 2016 Posted January 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, VermilionBird said: Terumi gave Saya the Yukianesa the same time he destroyed her mind. Can't remember exactly how. Doubt it, Ragna said in Continuum Shift that he had Yukianesa well before the church burned down (at least two years), so Terumi probably had no involvement if he burned down the church the moment he found them. I'm guessing Izanami influenced Saya long before then (She could've told her it was a good idea to give it to Jin or even mind controlled her to do it), but could only fully possess her with the help of Terumi/Relius.
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