[CT+CS1] Noel vs. Noel

[madaxe_munkee]

Standing guard is pretty effective against chain revolver. You'll only need to worry about 6D, which as we all know is painfully slow. So slow that I deem it nigh unusable.

As long as you know she isn't going to 2D, 214D or 28D you can feel free to 3C under her moves. If you detect a hint of 2D, 214D or 28D well. I often just block 2D, since most likely they'll just go into another move, and you can 3C under that one. Or they'll go into 214D 28D which can be blocked and then punished, or 236D which can be 3Ced under again.

If you know what you're doing, 5D through 236D into BnB combo for style points. I also 5A spam against Noel between active frames. Anything that it can't stop, you'll have plenty of time to see coming and block (except maybe 3C. Just don't spam 5A at range)

Noel's weight and hitbox might come across as strange to you. I know I think it's weird still. You really don't have an excuse not to hit her with all you've got though, since all your combos are still available to you in their fullest. Just be patient with your 6Cs after your haidas.

Mixup is still your greatest asset in this match, and against Drive Spamming Noels, I find that mixup is what really clinches my matches for me. Drive spamming Noels are weakest when they can't Drive, and need to use their basic skills. Okizeme and so forth. If you know your combos, you only need to hit her with an opener 3 times. Even less if you hit a distortion drive or two. Use your 6B, and your 3C. Most players actually block low by default, and 6B and 3C both have alot of reach if you know how to use it. Just be careful with 3C, since it's more punishable on block than 6B and if they read you, it's likely you'll eat a 2D.

They key to using mixup effectively is nailing your BnBs down. It doesn't matter all that much if you know which move they're gonna be vulnerable to next round if you don't have the weight behind your attack. Good BnBs are the difference between a good Noel player and a Drive Spammer and I know that there's no better way to stake your claim at Noel pro-ness than punishing a poorly selected drive move for 4k+ damage.

[bluecarrot]

Idk about you guys but honestly just using 2d as soon as you get in range does it for me. Most noels, when fighting other noels start combos at about the end of 2d's range and after its started usually loose to 2d (or use their own 2d, in this case whoever started first wins). Obviously there are limits but, its a fairly stable way. Oh and 4d whenever they jump into the air to punish whatever foolish thought they came up with.

[LunaKage]

Idk about you guys but honestly just using 2d as soon as you get in range does it for me. Most noels, when fighting other noels start combos at about the end of 2d's range and after its started usually loose to 2d (or use their own 2d, in this case whoever started first wins). Obviously there are limits but, its a fairly stable way. Oh and 4d whenever they jump into the air to punish whatever foolish thought they came up with.

A well placed j.4D will beat an anti-air 4D.

[confusedxphreak]

^It's funny how useless j.4D is to me personally, but how annoying it is to counter it when other Noels use it against me. Its probably because I don't know the move's projectory well at all. :/ What's the best way to punish a j.4D? Punish before landing, on landing before its active frames, or after blocking the j.4D (and probable 214D)?

But yeah, I agree with the consensus that mirror matches are a PAIN with Noel. It's funny how easily other characters can punish drive moves, but Noel herself cannot deal with it safely. Often I run in with normals to pressure, mess up on a block string, and I eat a 5D or 2D CH due to the iframes. It also doesn't help that Noel only has 4 guard primers and 1 drive block string can deplete all guard primers at once, so just playing patient and blocking doesn't work. -.-

[suzumiya4ever]

I'll be straight up, how do you fight against those freakin noob button mashers? it's so unpredictable I just can't read them and its making me mad lol. I'm pretty good with other matchups except tager and bang, but this matchup when I fight against noob button mashers, it's HELLA annoying.

[Nini Heart]

Mash harder than them

[Raptor]

Sadly, this might be the only option. Drive literally beats almost all of Noel's normals (and some drive moves to boot).

[LunaKage]

Mash harder than them

Your first warning, No trolling in my threads.

You beat "noob mashing Noels" by being defensive, if all they really do is mash drive, just block, wait until they go into drive, then after blocking their first drive, you can get a free 5D/2D, although against better Noels it wont be as free, because while in drive, Noel has a couple of ways do deal with Noels who Drive to counter her Drive.

[Chaoschao222]

Wait, I'm a bit tired, Luna, are you saying a Driving Noel can counter a Noel's Drive-counter for your Drive? As it, turn their Drive counter against them?

[LunaKage]

Wait, I'm a bit tired, Luna, are you saying a Driving Noel can counter a Noel's Drive-counter for your Drive? As it, turn their Drive counter against them?

Yes.

For example, if you notice that your opponent keeps using 5D after he blocks your 2D, which goes through your d.6A(for example) everytime, then next time he blocks your 2D, use Spring Raid, which will beat out 5D.

[Chaoschao222]

*takes notes*

[suzumiya4ever]

Wow this is really helpful, I'm definitely gonna try to try this. Thanks alot!

Your first warning, No trolling in my threads.

You beat "noob mashing Noels" by being defensive, if all they really do is mash drive, just block, wait until they go into drive, then after blocking their first drive, you can get a free 5D/2D, although against better Noels it wont be as free, because while in drive, Noel has a couple of ways do deal with Noels who Drive to counter her Drive.

[SkyKing]

This matchup basically boils down to who can make the most out of their reads. Understanding what works and what doesn't work in here is even more important because the potential damage you can be taking is incredibly high, along with the fact that she can punish herself quite well and quite often with her drives.

For the most part, stay defensive and analyze what the other Noel is trying to do. If she's very aggressive, then use the appropriate normals to punish with, and the appropriate drives to invuln through obvious patterns, such as 5Ding through CR strings, or 2Ding over her lows/6Bs/throw attempts. If the Noel also plays out the reaction game, test what sort of read she is trying to get, and possibly beat it out with your own or baiting out an attempted invuln read. If they understand how to manuever during CR strings to avoid being punished, then just wait it out until she finishes her strings, and make sure to know how to block them.

There are some auto-pilot CR strings to look out for since some players will continue the string as if it comboed, instead of hit-confirming the starter, such as 5D/2D > d.6A > d.6C. You can 5D through the d.6A, and 2D over the d.6C. Just watch out for possible anti-punish strategies like being Spring Raided or Assault Throughed.

Also, some other punishes I like to do are CH 5B/5C > 3C if you block their 3C depending on the distance, and using 6A against jump-ins (although still very risky).

After understanding the other Noel's gameplan, just work on maximizing your damage output to give yourself the much needed wall carry and life lead. Noel's back-to-corner game isn't very strong until she gains 50 Heat, to which she can turn the tides on you with her Counter Assault. You can also do the same, but make sure to pick your spots. If she can guess where to punish your CA, then she can very easily put you back in the corner with a devastating combo that will net her the Heat for corner Fenrir finishes and Heat for CA if she needs it.

Edited March 5, 2011 by SkyKing