[CT-CS1] Carl vs Tager

[Mascarpone]

spec of theory fighter here: back me up or tear me down

Kind of hate dealing with scrubby 50/50 Gadget fingers on tager, trying to figure out if this is valid.

Dash allegretto. It makes you airborne (no 360's) but keeps you low to the ground and alters your momentum (avoid atomic colider? I believe colider is only over-head invincible not middle-of-his-chest invincible) and is activ long enough to stuff a back dash (i think i forget the frame data) leaving Tager only jabs and 4D which are significantly less irritating to deal with on wake up imo.

This hold any water?

[Kyle]

9-Jump, J.A > gadget mix-ups.

[ZONG_one]

Dash allegretto will be good in theory, but not in practice.

Also, another gadget finger will stuff any dash.

Unless you could time your second 6 press to activate the second you got out of hitstun, there's also the chance of you getting hit/thrown before you can even dash.

(You're pressing forward, after all. If you eat 5A then you eat another GF mixup.)

Thanks for 9j.A Kyle.

I'll have to try that with Mike tonight and see how it goes. >:3

[Leo7]

Speaking from experience, I believe j.9A loses to jump air throw from Tager. Almost 100% sure it loses to Tager's 5A as well (you would have just finished your jump start-up by the time you got hit by 5A).

[ZONG_one]

Airthrow can be teched so that's not a problem, unless somehow it throw rejects.

If it loses to 5A, that could be a problem.

[Leo7]

Well, the Carl player would be hitting j.A right away, so it should be a throw counter.

Just checking, j.9A is jumping towards Tager right?

Pretty sure j.7A for Carl stuffs Tager's Collider and dodges ground and air throws though. Probably loses to Tager's jump back j.D (jump back j.D is pretty good against people who like holding up+back out of pressure in general), not sure about what else, too lazy to test it atm. All I know is that it's a similar situation to the Litchi match-up where j.7B and j.9B/A stuff a lot of Tager's options after Gadget.

[ZONG_one]

Yeah, but I think litchi 7j.B is airtight.

7j.A with Carl.. I really think collider would beat that. Dunno. If you can't test it now, I'll just try and remember later.

My friend TC has been doing collider RC cross under/feint mix ups anyway, so this is only if Tager is meterless, unless the Tager doesn't know how/doesn't want to do it for some reason.

Still, I'll play with it tonight.

[Leo7]

Erm, decided to test it anyways since I have something set up right now.

j.9A loses when Tager jumps and air throws (Tager must not jump forward though, or he'll get counter hit).

j.7A beats Collider. Loses to Tager's 5C though (counterhit).

Tager's 5A would stop you from jumping though (you get hit if it's 9, you block if it's 7).

And, unrelated, but Litchi's j.7B probably only really loses to Tager's jump back j.D lol.

[ZONG_one]

9 seems safer to me then. :]

EDIT- I take it none lose to 6A?

For the record, I hate 6A.

[Leo7]

Yea, both options beat 6A.

[Kyle]

9J.A will not be EVERYTHING lol. It does beat his typical follow ups tho. so it causes Tager to commit to a CH 2C/5C, at this point Carl will get CH2B.

If Tager does 5A after finger, i recall being airborn = No problems!

Also, ground combo into 3C, 22]D[, IAD, J.2C Alle~can, 5C, SJ.B, J.C, Jump cancel, JB+C is GODLIKE!

NO Throw break = (JB+C)x5

Throw break = 623]D], land, 66

Block = 669J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, 8]D[... into itself

Hit = SJ.B, J.C, Jump Cancel JB+C

[Zeero]

solution: stay away and don't get gadget fingered in the first place

but seriously, if I was the tager player and if you 7/8/9jA me once after gadget and hit me out of it, the next time I gadget I'd be thinking of 2Cing you for a good 4.5k.

imo... the jA only beating like collider and jump attempts by tager means if i'm gonna expect a collider, i'd 5B you anyway for it

[Kyle]

It beats Buster, Collider, 5D, 2B, & 6A. Again, MOST of Tagers options, once this is established you have committed him to 5C/2C which you can be risky and CH him first, or safe and escape for free.

[ZONG_one]

Ok only problem I see with 9.jA is it loses to 5A.

That's the only thing that bothers me about it.