[CT-CS1] Carl vs Tager

[A.X.I.S.]

kyle you have a sadistic carl, i had to get creative to beat those pokes, you mash j.A on my backdash then double jump and i'm like, fuck! he's gonna summon nirvana then cross me up. to this day i'm not sure if its even blockable, just so much stuff being tossed at me i can't tell! oh yeah i figured something out, when you do rapsody of memories, we can poke nirvana out during the flash so you waste 50 meter. gotta watch that. tried it on a carl today.

[4Corners]

You can do the same to the gear super. You just have to be fast.

[Akiro]

I ususally j.5c, 236]D[ , 5b, 6b, throw ,Raise the Roof, and then Throw loop him. OR 4]D[ if he gets too close to Nirvana. My opponent will try to hit her out of it and end up eating a combo.

[Kyle]

You can do the same to the gear super.

You just have to be fast.

The window is too small to react to.

[ShinsoBEAM]

You can do the same to the gear super.

You just have to be fast.

Or we can just buffer 720 during the flash :smug: x1000.

[Kyle]

Yes it does! Do people not hear me when I say most of the time Tager can out live Neeesan.

[Eshi]

How viable is it for Tager to constantly throw escape during the throw loop until Nirvana dies? Does it take off more or less life than the throw loop? I feel like Nirvana dies fast as hell if they do and I barely do any damage in comparison.

[4Corners]

Yes it does! Do people not hear me when I say most of the time Tager can out live Neeesan.

You're looping wrong. Start doing random whiff throws. Not the IAD variation, just let go of 8d a little early and grab a little late. No visual difference whatsoever. It'll only take 1/4-1/2 Nirvana meter, depending on how greedy you get.

I mean, he ~could~ throw break late, but then he's sandwiched again. And that's the best case scenario.

How viable is it for Tager to constantly throw escape during the throw loop until Nirvana dies? Does it take off more or less life than the throw loop? I feel like Nirvana dies fast as hell if they do and I barely do any damage in comparison.

It's not viable at all. When he throw breaks, dash in, do your pick-up (2c is preferable vs Tager), and hit with the STRONG part of the clap. Turn nirvana off, hit with 2c, strong clap. Do this three times, then go back into the loop. He just ate like... 5k damage, and is going right back into the loop. Best part about it? It only takes like... 720 Nirvana HP for the 2c8d loop, so about 1000 for the full thing. That's only 1/8th her HP. If they want to die incredibly fast, encourage the grab break. If they don't, they have to just eat the loop and hope that Carl doesn't mess up/they predict the whiff and break at the appropriate time. Course, if Carl has full Nirvana meter, the only viable option is to just eat it and hope that the Carl doesn't whiff, soz they can burst near the very end, break Nirvana, and hopefully eff up Carl.

It's 8-2 for a reason. =/

[ShinsoBEAM]

You're looping wrong. Start doing random whiff throws. Not the IAD variation, just let go of 8d a little early and grab a little late. No visual difference whatsoever. It'll only take 1/4-1/2 Nirvana meter, depending on how greedy you get.

I mean, he ~could~ throw break late, but then he's sandwiched again. And that's the best case scenario.

Ohhh I thought I was able to escape with a throw break late due to slightly missed timing cause you know online lol I didn't know it actually worked legit, still yeah it puts us in a bad posistion but its better than infinite :D.

[4Corners]

Is true, but if you guessed wrong, you're gonna eat 5k and be put back into the loop. D:

[ShinsoBEAM]

Is true, but if you guessed wrong, you're gonna eat 5k and be put back into the loop. D:

ohhh I know, since I normally don't play the same carl a ton, I watch the first loop too see if they do it, if they don't do the second clap early I just eat the damage and let the doll die, now what gets evil is when the carls start mixing up whether they do it or not. But most just go clap on, clap off, clap on, clap throw break heh, I have gotten a quite few messages along the lines woah you escaped it and stuff, but against 1/2 of the carls it doesn't matter anyways cause it still puts you in a terrible position.

[Zoogstin]

Nirvana increasingly uses more more energy for each move she doesn while turned on. Allowing nirvana to turn off will reset how much energy she uses. Against a Tager Nirvana has to have around half of her meter to KO a Tager with out turning her off. Sometimes Nirvana will have taken a serious beating from Tager before you manage to get Tager in a loop. By this point Nirvana may not have enough meter to KO Tager. By allow her to turn off there's still hope. So yeah turn off Nirvana when you can. You're saving the environment and what not.

[A.X.I.S.]

ohhh I know, since I normally don't play the same carl a ton, I watch the first loop too see if they do it, if they don't do the second clap early I just eat the damage and let the doll die, now what gets evil is when the carls start mixing up whether they do it or not. But most just go clap on, clap off, clap on, clap throw break heh, I have gotten a quite few messages along the lines woah you escaped it and stuff, but against 1/2 of the carls it doesn't matter anyways cause it still puts you in a terrible position.

i do the same thing but i try to avoid the clap so i don't risk dying in the loop.

[A.X.I.S.]

when the combo's stop counting when your pounding on a sandwhiched tager please jump, i'm looking for the whole to 360/MTW/720 you in, won against many carls doing this, please for gods sakes use the doll or something.

[Mascarpone]

I didn't realize you liked getting pummeled Sol D: Also sometimes those resets just happen on accident online. woo!

[A.X.I.S.]

i don't but its a pretty high chance tager gets caught by the sandwhich, i make it hard for carl to get in or for him to position the doll sometimes. sad that most carls online can't beat me without the clap, i'd make it hard otherwise.

[Kyle]

To punish Tagers Jumps meet him with:

Suerjump, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, , 22]D[, Double Jump, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, 8]D[, DEATH

It's loads of laughs.

If any of the jump A's actually hit, just confirm into J.B, Double Jump, J.2C, Allegreto.

I'd like to further explain.

-While I was developing this tactic I started landing first and doing "grounded" traps. J.A, x7, Land, 6A, J.A... while this is effective tagers learned real fast. Chemical Lovd would Barrier the 6A causing MASSIVE pushback and escape the setup, SolBadass/Axisthebeast would IB the final J.A and get a CH JustFrame Peoples Elbow. Ouch charlie, that huuurt..

While jumping first/second it doesn't matter as long as you meet Tager Air-to-air. Carl should be in a position to land first. But, your not going to land. You will be using your second jump option to further keep him in blockstun as you use Nirvana to 8]D[ for a hit.

Now here's the crazy part. Could you use Bria (623D) to keep him in Blockstun as you land from your second jump?

Someone test please.

Set opponent to Jump & Block:

[sJ, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.2A, J.2A, ~]D[, J.A, double Jump, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.A, 623D]xN

this isn't really times "N". Although it will force opponent(Tager only???) to blow lots of barrier. Than, just as you are forced back from Barrier pushback, 8]D[.

I seriously love this game.

[A.X.I.S.]

if you mistime that 8D tager can sledge it like all of nirvana's stuff he can just sledge out, the only problem is if carl block/IB it he will have so much frame advantage that it won't make sense.

[Kyle]

if you mistime that 8D tager can sledge it like all of nirvana's stuff he can just sledge out, the only problem is if carl block/IB it he will have so much frame advantage that it won't make sense.

This new set-up leaves Tager airborn stuck in blockstun.

[A.X.I.S.]

This new set-up leaves Tager airborn stuck in blockstun.

oh shit i forgot that part, if you catch tager with that he's pretty fucked, stuck for those 2 hits on 8D i'm pretty sure if we manage to IB we can sneak a elbow.

[feri]

j.a x n has about 2f~3f gap (when IB'd). Mashing FD + IB (increased pushback?) would probably get Tager into safety or at least make it hard for carl to do whatever he was planning. If you really want to sneak something in there Tager air throw is 6f. And j.a isnt that much of a threat to be hit by (its much better than eating an 8d imo).

[Kyle]

CS:

IAD, J.2C(Cross-up), Alle~can, 5B, 2B, 6B, 6]D[

If Tager is standing: J.2C, J.B. J.C, J.2C, J.B, J.C, 5B, 5C, ConAnima

If Tager is crouching:6C, 5B, 6B, J.B, J.C, J.B, 5B, 5C, ConAnima

[kaworu]

When Tager is doing his typical block string crap (5a, 5a, 5c, 5d, sledge xN) what can Carl do to get out of it? Sometimes I get hit out of vivace, i need something way more consistant.

[Xithmos]

Instant block sledge and back dash.

[Kyle]

Carl vs Tager:

Standing: 5B, 6B, J.2C, J.B, J.C, JumpCancel, J.2C, J.B, J.C, 5B...

Standing: Airdash, J.A, J.A, J.A, J.2C, J.A, J.A, J.2C, J.A, J.A, J.2C, Alle~can, 5B

Crouching: 5B, 6B, J.2C, Alle~can...