[CS1] Bang Discussion and Question Thread

[Justice7541]

Anything > 2C 6-dash 5D crossup [9-dash j.4C]x3 j.D 2B 623B to Daifunka or 5D [crossup 9-dash j.4C]x3 623B does more damage and is easier to do IMO. The j.4C loop only does more damage if you can pick it up without doing a ground combo first, i.e. if you hit with some AA CH.

Ultimately it's up to you though.

Also if you want to troll, poison the opponent before going into FRKZ. It drains health during the superflash and is basically free damage.

[Dacidbro]

2C 5D is a higher damage combo starter, theoretically, but only if you loop 4 or 5 or more j4C's. If you're only doing 3, it's not going to do more than the one I posted, be harder to hit confirm, harder to perform, be harder to learn BUT will be easier against Hazama and Hakumen. I dunno your call. Also, you left out the "9 cross j4C jD 2 2B" in your formula before the 623B (Unless that really works, I've never seen it; seems like a huge loss even if it does)

[Justice7541]

Oh, I phrased that ambiguously. Meterless combo is xx 2C 6-dash 5D [crossup 9-dash j.4C]x3 2B 623B 5D [crossup 9-dash j.4C]x3 623B. With meter it's the same starter but with Daifunka after the 2B 623B.

Meterless combo should give you about 4.5k to 5k depending on what you started with (5k off j.B or 5B), so I think it should do a little bit more damage. I usually don't do the relaunch loop but if I recall correctly it averages about 4.5k off 5B meterless. So yeah it's really a matter of preference.

[kumori]

The 2 seal crouching combo I use is (5a) 5b 2b 2c tk 236c (web) j.d 2b 623b 5d air ender

only costs 1 web instead of 2

as for corner against standing you can do 5b 2b 6c j.d web (has to be right after the j.d) d.5c 6d 623b

for crouching its a lot harder and doesn't work on a few characters but 5b 2b 2d j.d 2b 623b (the 2d j.d is a dumb link)

also learn the 4 seal combo off CH 2d, easy one 2d ch j.d 2b 623b dash 6c j.d web <land> 5d

Once in FRKZ unless your in there face already, like starting it from a block string. I find its really hard to get in again, can anyone give me some advice on that?

also, why is j4c loops so damn impossible against hazama, annoying shit.

also my current FRKZ combo is 5b 2b 2c dash 2b 94c [land 94c] x 3 or 4 94c 2dash 2b 623b 5d 94c jd 2dash 5c2c

anything wrong with it?

and woo first post here, thou been lurking forever.

Edited December 23, 2010 by kumori

[Dacidbro]

The only things I can say is for corner hit confirm 2 seals, it's much easier and works on all characters to use [x except for 2A] 2C web 6C jD web 5C 6D. About your mid screen correction, it is better, but it won't work in CS2. Still, good call.

Your FRKZ combo, you -can- end in jD 1dash web Daifunka, but it's so unbelievably hard I've given up on it.

[huey253]

yeah its really hard, so i go for jD 2dash 5C 2C 6dash ashura as the ender instead.

[Tofma]

wth is going on. does bang recover faster from stuff vs himself? or do i just suck?

-throw->webnail gets blocked. bakthrow>webanil works though

-2d jc j.d webnail jd seems impossible

EDIT:and why does 5c connect during the later active frames vs himself?

Edited December 23, 2010 by Tofma

[huey253]

bang trolls himself, and yeah forward grab into nail doesn't work i think?

[Justice7541]

wth is going on. does bang recover faster from stuff vs himself? or do i just suck?

-throw->webnail gets blocked. bakthrow>webanil works though

-2d jc j.d webnail jd seems impossible

EDIT:and why does 5c connect during the later active frames vs himself?

Forward grab into nail works. Might be character-specific. 2D JC j.D webnail j.D works just fine on Bang. Are you delaying the webnail properly?

[Dacidbro]

Forward grab into nail on Bang doesn't work, which is what they were talking about.

[Wokker]

Bang beginner in need of some serious help.

Im not good at explaining, but here I go. Ive been playing Bang for about 2 weeks and been practising combos, imputs etc.

But everytime I play against my friends on PSN, I lose most of my matches because I get outpoked all the time since Bang´s 5A and 5B dont have good range compared to Hakumen´s and Litchi´s pokes. So either I need to block, and then I get pressured and destroyed, or I get hit and eat 3-4k dmg.

How should Bang approach when he´s out of nails, and is Bangs DP woth doing under pressure?

Any tips/hints are welcome, maybe ill post some matches so you guys can see and point out my mistakes.

Thanks.

[Dacidbro]

Hey wokker. It seems like you aren't using Bang's maneuverability to it's fullest. See, Bang's 5A and 5B are actually both INCREDIBLY good pokes, but as you've surely noticed, won't beat disjointed hitboxes like Hakumen's sword moves or Litchi's staff moves. To get around this, you need to use your extra air mobility (double jump air dash, single jump double air dash; poison nail air dash cancel (Which is an airdash cancelled by A nail, gimmicky, but useful), and your bumpers), because they are forced to commit much more to those moves than other moves. Watch high level Bang videos to see how people get around them using those strategies.

It's also important to realize most pokes that will straight out beat yours won't lead to any pressure or anything. For example, absolutely all of Hakumen's long range pokes will give him no pressure at all. You'll need to research which pokes will or will not lead into pressure, so you can learn which ones you can safely block, and which ones are higher threat to try to avoid completely (A good example of a really dangerous poke is Litchi's 5B, because it can gatling into many other blockstring options)

Edited December 25, 2010 by Dacidbro

[zeth07]

Bang beginner in need of some serious help.

Im not good at explaining, but here I go. Ive been playing Bang for about 2 weeks and been practising combos, imputs etc.

But everytime I play against my friends on PSN, I lose most of my matches because I get outpoked all the time since Bang´s 5A and 5B dont have good range compared to Hakumen´s and Litchi´s pokes. So either I need to block, and then I get pressured and destroyed, or I get hit and eat 3-4k dmg.

How should Bang approach when he´s out of nails, and is Bangs DP woth doing under pressure?

Any tips/hints are welcome, maybe ill post some matches so you guys can see and point out my mistakes.

Thanks.

In my honest opinion, you should never be out of nails at the end of the round unless the match is really close. That said, it does happen, and you're pretty much stuck playing BlazBlue's form of footsies. You should be using Bang's mobility to try and put yourself in a better situation than the opponent. For the most part it shouldn't be an issue with Hakumen. Litchi....well she's Litchi so not much I can say since I do terrible against LK and WoZ. You'll probably be jumping a lot more, just make sure you're doing it with a purpose and understanding of the situation it is putting you in in terms of the match-up.

If you're worried about mobility and are using up nails, you might want to consider actually using some for bumpers, so that even if you run out you at least have another option to get around differently than the opponent. A 2 nail bumper pattern lasts the whole round while 3 nails are gone in a second and sometimes don't even work out or get wasted. How much mix-up you get off those bumpers or how useful they become is another story, but at least it is something to consider. Maybe even consider just 1 bumper (probably B or D) in the middle of the stage since that's where you would want an added option since it's the most likely place to be neutral.

Another option is to go for FRKZ which speaks for itself.

If you're getting outpoked in general, that's more or less you not thinking about your spacing / their spacing and making bad reads or not reacting with the appropriate action whatever that may be.

I honestly don't feel right "critiquing" people because I don't think I'm good enough to give advice, but it is more or less general things to consider and there probably isn't a correct way to go about doing it since it depends on what your opponents are doing and how you actually play Bang. But that's my thoughts, if you do post videos I'll watch and see if there is any glaring mistakes or bad habits that I could comment on. Otherwise hopefully someone else can give better advice for things to look out for.

[Justice7541]

The one thing you should not be overusing is your D nail. Save those for blockstring resets and when you REALLY need the approach in a pinch. If they are trying to zone you use your guardpoints. Just don't be too obvious with them, but if they're throwing out unsafe projectiles just 5D~C and teleport into range; if you do it right you can even land the 5D into a 3-seal combo. Just try not to be too obvious about it, if they see it coming they can IB and punish, 5D is punishable by like every character's 5B on instant block.

Also, superjump a lot. When you normal jump or IAD you risk eating an AA because you're so close to the ground, but if you superjump it puts you high enough that you can play some approach shenanigans. Don't forget that you have two airdashes, too, that lets you do stuff like IAD in > herp I baited your AA > reverse A/B nailglide (44236A/B) > dash in 5A/5B.

Finally, bumpers. Bumpers are pretty underrated but they can be pretty godlike if you get them set up right. If they're just turtling it out you have plenty of time to set bumpers, I recommend using B and D unless you're using B bumper for resets. Bounce around the D bumper a bit (jump into it and go straight down) so they can't just dial an a reversal or AA when they see you jump, then do a double bumper dash (forward off the D bumper, then off the B bumper) to suddenly cover the entire screen before they can react. Hell, setting B/D bumper in general is useful, especially if you can get them between the bumpers later in the round.

[Dacidbro]

I think assuming people won't react to you flying full screen is giving a little too little credit to your potential opponent. That being said, those bumpers being there makes their commitment to footsies infinitely more dangerous, as many pokes recover too slow to not get hit by double bumper jC.

Personally, I usually use A and C bumpers, but it's largely matchup or preference.

[zeth07]

I think assuming people won't react to you flying full screen is giving a little too little credit to your potential opponent. That being said, those bumpers being there makes their commitment to footsies infinitely more dangerous, as many pokes recover too slow to not get hit by double bumper jC.

Personally, I usually use A and C bumpers, but it's largely matchup or preference.

A+C for movement, B+D for mix-up, at least that's how I look at it, not counting TK'd bumpers. B+D are low to the ground and give less time for them to react, while A+C is obviously higher so they see you jump into them longer before you actually dash anywhere off them. And you'd be much more likely to be able to combo off of a hit after a B or D bumper dash since you're low to the ground, while A+C you're much higher. With B+D being lower it puts you at risk for getting hit by more things in my opinion, which is why A+C seems more useful just to get around. But obviously against certain zoners it still puts you in danger at times because they have moves that can cover that high into the air (Lambda's swords).

I find myself using B+D, or even just B at times. I've been using A+C a lot less though, maybe only against Tager/Hakumen but even then I probably just end up with B+D.

[Justice7541]

I prefer to save C for lol corner fuzzy guard mixups. A is okay for approach if a single bumper is good enough though.

[Wokker]

Thanks guys! Now im gonna start using Bang´s mobility and not wasting his nails on random Dnails, and ill watch alot of pro Bang matches.

Thanks alot for your help!

[Justice7541]

So lately I've been trolling with OTG 2B 623B d.5C 2C B bumper set, but it seems hella wonky. Anyone know any other good bumper troll setups? I know you can just do 623B d.2C to force the emergency roll but the distance isn't optimal for a B bumper after just 2C.

[Blade]

This is just a broad strokes question but...any tips to beating FRKZ? I'm seeing more Bang players use it as a way out of trouble and it works.

[zeth07]

So lately I've been trolling with OTG 2B 623B d.5C 2C B bumper set, but it seems hella wonky. Anyone know any other good bumper troll setups? I know you can just do 623B d.2C to force the emergency roll but the distance isn't optimal for a B bumper after just 2C.

I don't know about "troll setups", but if I'm messing around with bumpers, at the start of the round I'll do IAD backwards>B Nail>land>B Bumper, and depending on how they react or if I didn't get hit already D bumper. I used to do sj away A Nail, try to setup whatever bumper pattern, but that's not exactly effective (not that the other way is really either.) And if they didn't come after you and they are playing relatively reserved, you could walk up to the B Bumper and then TK the A bumper I believe it is, and now you have a row of 3 nicely spaced bumpers.

Otherwise, I occasionally will throw out a bumper after a combo ending near the corner to hopefully set it up just outside the corner (Nezu).

Then there was a combo video with a bunch of random Bang stuff and part of it had mid combo bumper setups. So you'd start a combo>bumper>continue the combo>go into potential mix-up off said bumper hoping they actually tech to your benefit. I'll probably remember this wrong but it was something like, 5A>5B>2C>B Bumper?>2A>5B>j.B>j.C (you should be right near that Bumper)>bumper dash mix-up.

Part of that has them whiffing j.4C after the bumper dash (on purpose) into command throw. While if you happen to do this kind of mix-up and actually land that j.4C anyway, that's big damage.

Another bumper situation is off of the Nezu combos, where he usually does blah blah>6D>Bumper or blah blah>6D>623B>Bumper. Because 6D's hit stun/tech time? or whatever it's called is so long it gives you plenty of time and obviously 623B's wall bounce in CS gives you enough time.

But I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for with "troll setups" while still being "good" setups so I don't know what to say really.

Go into the CS1 Video thread and look for matches from Den or Nezu to see Bumper stuff, or find ones that say "Yellow Bang" since that could potentially be Den.

Edited January 1, 2011 by zeth07

[Justice7541]

I don't know about "troll setups", but if I'm messing around with bumpers, at the start of the round I'll do IAD backwards>B Nail>land>B Bumper, and depending on how they react or if I didn't get hit already D bumper. I used to do sj away A Nail, try to setup whatever bumper pattern, but that's not exactly effective (not that the other way is really either.) And if they didn't come after you and they are playing relatively reserved, you could walk up to the B Bumper and then TK the A bumper I believe it is, and now you have a row of 3 nicely spaced bumpers.

Otherwise, I occasionally will throw out a bumper after a combo ending near the corner to hopefully set it up just outside the corner (Nezu).

Then there was a combo video with a bunch of random Bang stuff and part of it had mid combo bumper setups. So you'd start a combo>bumper>continue the combo>go into potential mix-up off said bumper hoping they actually tech to your benefit. I'll probably remember this wrong but it was something like, 5A>5B>2C>B Bumper?>2A>5B>j.B>j.C (you should be right near that Bumper)>bumper dash mix-up.

Part of that has them whiffing j.4C after the bumper dash (on purpose) into command throw. While if you happen to do this kind of mix-up and actually land that j.4C anyway, that's big damage.

Another bumper situation is off of the Nezu combos, where he usually does blah blah>6D>Bumper or blah blah>6D>623B>Bumper. Because 6D's hit stun/tech time? or whatever it's called is so long it gives you plenty of time and obviously 623B's wall bounce in CS gives you enough time.

But I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for with "troll setups" while still being "good" setups so I don't know what to say really.

I used to do 6D B bumper setup in CT. It's not very reliable since it gives them so much time to react and roll out and the position of the bumper isn't optimal for mixup after a 2A meaty. I may give that 2C B bumper 2A pickup a shot though, sounds like it could be lulz.

I have found that you can compensate for the spacing problem off a 623B 2C emergency tech by pushing them forward very briefly with a dash and still have time to beat any non-reversal option with a 2A.

As for Blade, you mash like a mofo and try to poke him out on his unsafe approach. Don't bother trying to block, I've never seen anyone successfully block FRKZ mixup for any extended period of time.

[DaiAndOh]

This is just a broad strokes question but...any tips to beating FRKZ? I'm seeing more Bang players use it as a way out of trouble and it works.

With what character?

[Blade]

Well, I noticed that Ragna and Haku tend to get trapped by falling j.C strings in the corner, and besides that, midscreen he tends to go all over the place.

[weazzyefff]

Hey guys

I am having trouble landing this combo 6B,2A,5B,jB,j4C, 623B (can do the rest). The 623B part is whiffing for me now. I could get it before (starting to think i was dreaming).

I am trying it on Ragna. man i hope this not a char specific combo Cos it's a good setup for dmg ay. Overhead and all. Saw Satoshi do it and have been trying to master it since. Thanks for any help.