[CS1] Rachel Combos

[calendula]

I'm having a hard time (read: I can't do it) trying to grasp the timing of the very basic combo that everyone use "5b 5cdc 214a". Like in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvF-4Va8CI, after that the frog is already at his opponent's feet and ready to spark, while in my situation, the frog need to walk forward 2 step to do that. Does anyone has any advice for the beginner like me? =(

Already tried to use wind before, while and after the first C hit, but doesn't seem like it works.

If you have BB CT then it is possible to pratice it there, since this is a must to master.

Possibly this means two things.

1, your timing on the cdc 214a is a little slow and you've already lost enough foward wind momentum

2, Or your doing it on a character that is not applicable for this set-up (ie Jin,Ragna,Noel etc.)

The solution for no.1 is to summon the frog as soon as the second "C" connects (umbrella opens) This will give you enough momentum to push you foward to summon the frog right next to them, this pretty much works on the rest of the cast.

However for some characters this just wont work, back in BB CT you have to use an extra wind for this to work on Jin, Ragna and Noel . So this will be (5b cdcd). Fortunately since we can now wind the frog in BBCS we can do it like this 5b cdc 214a 3cd. It still uses 2 winds but it gave us the opportunity to attack while the opponent is OTG.

There is also a transcript of that combo vid on the first page of this thread.

[Soniti]

For the basic frog combo, not much has changed from BBCT to BBCS, other than damage and, like colendula explained, the ability to use it on Jin, Ragna, Noel, and Tager via winded 3c.

You can practice it in BBCT but you don't have to pull the weird input gimmicks to get 1-hit 3c in CS, so don't worry if that messes you up. If i recall correctly, Tsubaki is a 2b otg character and Hazama is a 3c, but I could have those swapped.

[calendula]

2b should used on Hazama when he's OTG, also skinny characters like lambda-11 and carl too.

[EvilWolf]

You have to delay the j2C for it to register as a level 2. It is pretty hard to pull off.

One thing I messed with in CT (but it should still work in CS... actually, it should work better for a few reasons) is

6A3214D6C level 3 j2C (used two wind version, but dunno if one wind is possible in CS) pumpkin (just used as a timer for George, not actually needed) George 3C 236A (second 236A should be possible in CS) 3C sword iris pumpkin.

Theoretically should do about 4k damage since it does over 5k in CT (was doing it earlier this afternoon and don't remember the actual damage count). If one wind version is possible, then it's 4k for one wind + option for oki.

Argh I have been trying to do the air lvl 2 J.2C in the arcade for a few weeks and still haven't got the hang of it. Also, I've been having a bit of trouble dashing after 236B in Rachel's basic combo string, after 5cdc, is the timing stricter or something? I'm also having some trouble with the timing for Rachel's corner throw loop into 5B 2D 5CC, etc. I always mess up the timing for the 2D. While trying to do these combos, I've also lost almost every single match, cos I have trouble with pressure or even hitting my combos, since Rachel's normals are almost out-classed by everyone else's. Anyone know of any good/effective mind games for baiting people with Rachel?

[DSveno]

2, Or your doing it on a character that is not applicable for this set-up (ie Jin,Ragna,Noel etc.)

However for some characters this just wont work, back in BB CT you have to use an extra wind for this to work on Jin, Ragna and Noel . So this will be (5b cdcd). Fortunately since we can now wind the frog in BBCS we can do it like this 5b cdc 214a 3cd. It still uses 2 winds but it gave us the opportunity to attack while the opponent is OTG.

There is also a transcript of that combo vid on the first page of this thread.

Thank. I realize I haven't payed much attention to character specific combo, and it was a huge mistake.

[tofurr]

Here's a transcript for the new combo vid. If there's any errors, let me know, I'll fix it:

1. 0:01 – 0:10 - 6a, 5b, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3308 DMG)

2. 0:10 – 0:21 - 5b, 5cdc, 214a, 3cd (3 hits), 236a, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3651 DMG)

3. 0:21 – 0:32 - 5b, 5cdc, 236b, 66, 214c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3518 DMG)

4. 0:32 – 0:42 - bc, 5b, 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5120 DMG) *corner only

5. 0:42 – 0:53 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 5cc, 236b, 2147c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3121 DMG) *corner only

6. 0:53 – 1:02 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bdb, 236a, 3c (1hit), 214a (3852 DMG) *corner only

7. 1:02 – 1:14 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5cdc, 235b, 66, 5cc, 3c (3hits), 214a (3943 DMG) *corner only

8. 1:14 – 1:26 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5cdc, 235b, 2147c, 236c, 214c (4327 DMG?) *corner only

9. 1:26 – 1:42 - bc, 3c (3hits), 8d, 3c (3 hits), 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC/9, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5236 DMG) *starts in corner

10. 1:42 – 1:55 - 4b, 5bd, 6a, 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5117 DMG?) *corner only

[EvilWolf]

Here's a transcript for the new combo vid. If there's any errors, let me know, I'll fix it:

1. 0:01 – 0:10 - 6a, 5b, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3308 DMG)

2. 0:10 – 0:21 - 5b, 5cdc, 214a, 3cd (3 hits), 236a, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3651 DMG)

3. 0:21 – 0:32 - 5b, 5cdc, 236b, 66, 214c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, j.c, JC, j.2d, j.2c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3518 DMG)

4. 0:32 – 0:42 - bc, 5b, 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5120 DMG) *corner only

5. 0:42 – 0:53 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 5cc, 236b, 2147c, 236b, j.c, JC, j.c, 214c (3121 DMG) *corner only

6. 0:53 – 1:02 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bdb, 236a, 3c (1hit), 214a (3852 DMG) *corner only

7. 1:02 – 1:14 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5cdc, 235b, 66, 5cc, 3c (3hits), 214a (3943 DMG) *corner only

8. 1:14 – 1:26 - 5b, j.3c2d, 236a, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5bd, 6c, j.2c, 236a, 5cdc, 235b, 2147c, 236c, 214c (4327 DMG?) *corner only

9. 1:26 – 1:42 - bc, 3c (3hits), 8d, 3c (3 hits), 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC/9, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5236 DMG) *starts in corner

10. 1:42 – 1:55 - 4b, 5bd, 6a, 632146c, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 214a, 5cc, SJC, 8d, j.2c FC, 236a, 66, 3c (3 hits), 214c, 6c, j.c, JC, j.c, j.236a (5117 DMG?) *corner only

So this means we can combo from J.2C in the corner now? I like these new combos, not as hard as some of Ma Dao's from his previous CMV, and better damage too!

[kro_]

So this means we can combo from J.2C in the corner now? I like these new combos, not as hard as some of Ma Dao's from his previous CMV, and better damage too!

I'm pretty sure that the corner 236a > 5b link is character-specific and/or dependent on spacing. It only works if 236a hits at the last possible moment after a j.2c - and that's not gonna happen against a character with a fat crouching hitbox or if Rachel is too close to the opponent. All of those combos were done on Hazama.

[Jason D.]

I can't say for sure how character-specific that was, but I do know that Hazama is the only character who can crouch under an A lobelia if you do 5CDC -> A lob. to him as a blockstring when he's in the corner. So yeah, it could just be his hitbox at work.

[TD]

lt seems that, unlike in CT, Rachel's main goal is to get max damage instead of oki, because with a nerfed george ...

Anyway, good combos here.

[Jason D.]

This is kind of funny for me to say because I usually do go for max damage in CS, but going for okizeme is still a valid tactic too. Sure, George does worse damage, but that wasn't really the point of him in the first place. George is just supposed to hold the opponent still while you mix them up, and he's still wonderful at that. In fact, now that George slides with wind he's actually better in a way, since if the opponent tries to tech roll you can have George chase him down. And while Rachel's mix ups may not be quite what they used to be, in the end being able to start a fresh new combo is still way better than adding 300 damage and losing momentum.

[TD]

l don't mean the the nerfed damage.

l mean the nerfed cooldown time. Do the wrong combo and you'll end up with bad oki.

[Soniti]

Awesome combo video, I just wish there were practical combos in the video. I never have that much wind to just blow -- I use it for zoning so they don't get in for free. Can someone test if the corner combo after 236a works on anyone but Hazama? My hopes aren't high but still...

[Jason D.]

Awesome combo video, I just wish there were practical combos in the video. I never have that much wind to just blow -- I use it for zoning so they don't get in for free. Can someone test if the corner combo after 236a works on anyone but Hazama? My hopes aren't high but still...

Well, I'd say the corner throw combos are practical enough. In fact, I -almost- showed you it on Sunday morning, but I messed up the BBL motion. It's just that when your back is to the corner, it usually means that you've been rushed down, and thus you've had plenty of time to sit back and regain wind.

I was also thinking of doing that mid-screen 5CC frog combo on Jin as a standard, too. The combo itself isn't specific to just him, but for some reason Jin is a BITCH to hit with the usual 236 B -> run forward 6A stuff. For whatever reason he bounces further backward than most people, so the lightning from the pole can miss, and if you do a BBL the lightning from Rachel will almost always miss him.

[TD]

Try delaying the 236b as long as possible. (Like in CT on tager, after 5cdc you had to delay 236b in order to continue the combo)

[Jason D.]

Hey guys, I think Rachel is broken. I just did about 9,000 damage with her, and really easily. Just put down three poles, do a level 3 j.2c, BBL, j.2c, BBL, j.2c.

Try delaying the 236b as long as possible. (Like in CT on tager, after 5cdc you had to delay 236b in order to continue the combo)

I'm not sure what you mean by this. It isn't an issue with hitting him while he's still standing, like what happens to Tager. It's just that when Jin falls over, he falls further than other characters, making the ensuing combo harder to connect. For contrast, take Lambda/Nu and Tsubaki. They actually fall over much closer to Rachel. Jin is the opposite.

[GenoWhirl]

Jason your avatar hurts me ;_;

[TD]

@JD - You can still try it.

After 5cdc, don't press anything until just after Jin hits the ground (as opposed to pressing it right after 5cdc). lt should work fine.

[Jason D.]

I like to think of my avatar as inspiration. Whenever my opponent is blatantly going to jump in or airdash in, and I see it coming from a mile away and want to anti-air them, I just think of that picture. It reminds me that their jump-in is completely free, and that I can do nothing but block.

Also, I was thinking about that stupid combo I mentioned last night, when I was trying to see how much damage she could possibly do. It actually doesn't seem so useless. Wait wait, bear with me, I'm not insane. Picture this: The opponent is in the corner, and you have a few rods on top of them. Try to get George out in whatever way works best. Then, while George is holding them still, fly up and slam down. Time it so that Rachel comes down just after George's blockstun, so that if they flinch, they get hit, and can kiss their life goodbye. However, if they block the j.2c, just go into the BBL anyway. Congratulations, you have just RAPED their guard primers. And bonus points if you got them in Danger AND guard crushed them at the same time. That is some excellent Risk vs. Reward. The only problem I can think of is the time between the j.2c and the BBL. Does anyone know if the opponent has enough time there to mash something out?

[Jason D.]

Alright, time to report in.

The only problem I can think of is the time between the j.2c and the BBL. Does anyone know if the opponent has enough time there to mash something out?

The opponent can definitely mash out during the BBL startup. In fact, it's pretty easy since the level 3 j.2c creates a massive hitstop. Still though, this idea is insanely fun, and rewarding too, so why not try it every now and then?

@JD - You can still try it.

After 5cdc, don't press anything until just after Jin hits the ground (as opposed to pressing it right after 5cdc). lt should work fine.

This totally doesn't make a difference, and I feel silly for even trying it.

Can someone test if the corner combo after 236a works on anyone but Hazama? My hopes aren't high but still...

And now for some good news. I got that link to work on Tsubaki. It doesn't seem to work on Arakune, though. And the other computer guys weren't being too cooperative. But in theory, as long as they are small enough in their crouching hit animation, it should work on them.

[tofurr]

So it should work on Noel, Lambda, and Carl aswell then?

I have a question about a combo. In "6a, 5b, j.c~j.2d, JC, j.2c" is there time to connect a 6a after that? Or will the opponent tech in the air? And to the people actually playing CS, how often do you find yourself even using this combo? I'm trying to get it down in CT and it's pretty tough.

[TD]

All the time.

[EvilWolf]

I'm pretty sure that the corner 236a > 5b link is character-specific and/or dependent on spacing. It only works if 236a hits at the last possible moment after a j.2c - and that's not gonna happen against a character with a fat crouching hitbox or if Rachel is too close to the opponent. All of those combos were done on Hazama.

Awesome combo video, I just wish there were practical combos in the video. I never have that much wind to just blow -- I use it for zoning so they don't get in for free. Can someone test if the corner combo after 236a works on anyone but Hazama? My hopes aren't high but still...

This is kind of funny for me to say because I usually do go for max damage in CS, but going for okizeme is still a valid tactic too. Sure, George does worse damage, but that wasn't really the point of him in the first place. George is just supposed to hold the opponent still while you mix them up, and he's still wonderful at that. In fact, now that George slides with wind he's actually better in a way, since if the opponent tries to tech roll you can have George chase him down. And while Rachel's mix ups may not be quite what they used to be, in the end being able to start a fresh new combo is still way better than adding 300 damage and losing momentum.

So it should work on Noel, Lambda, and Carl aswell then?

I have a question about a combo. In "6a, 5b, j.c~j.2d, JC, j.2c" is there time to connect a 6a after that? Or will the opponent tech in the air? And to the people actually playing CS, how often do you find yourself even using this combo? I'm trying to get it down in CT and it's pretty tough.

In CT you can actually do 6A, 5B, j.b, j.c, Jump cancel, then J.2cd, works better that way. And yes there's time for a 6A. As for those combos in Ma Dao's latest combo video, I shall try them out on Saturday and Friday. Hope the corner J.2C works, really looking forward to being able to use J.2c so much like CT again.

[calendula]

So it should work on Noel, Lambda, and Carl aswell then?

I have a question about a combo. In "6a, 5b, j.c~j.2d, JC, j.2c" is there time to connect a 6a after that? Or will the opponent tech in the air? And to the people actually playing CS, how often do you find yourself even using this combo? I'm trying to get it down in CT and it's pretty tough.

You can land a 6a as soon as they fall,it will still connect despite the smaller hitbox and added frames of the 6a.

I think they wont be able to tech until they reach eye level or something. Things happens so fast that I barely notice but it does hit.

How often do we use this ? When opportunity arises, it is indeed hard but fun to watch if it did hit. And does a decent amount of damage and that what all rachel player needs. Though wiffing this move can spell disaster,

I'm suprised that the wiff c © wallbonce can render the oponent stun that long, I do hope that Arcsys wont nerf this one when the patch is released.

[sanshiki]

Once you start getting the hang of the j.C 2D j.2C loop its really easy.

Practice on a single character first like Jin or Ragna so you don't screw your timing trying all the variations on other characters AKA Hazama/Tager/Litchi whatever.

I like the 236B j.C dj.C iris ender. Safer than etc XX j.236A anyway.