Tari Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Reminds me, I believe I've seen Rachel set up 2 poles in one frog combo in CS. I'm not sure if this was only possible in loketests or if its still possible but: 5b - 5cdc - 214a - 3c (one hit) - 236a - 236 asap - 6a BBL - *insert ender/oki* ...or something along those lines. Sorry if this has already been established. Has (or could) someone test it who has access to CS? Still, considering how bad BBL's damage is it would be sad if we got more damage from 5b - 5cdc - 214a - 6c - j.236c - 6a - BBL - *insert ender/oki* Double 236a works during frog iirc (3c (1 hit) 236a 236a) and definitely during BBL. maybe we could do 5B 6C or 2B 5B 6C for them? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? Grounded 6c into frog doesn't do anything that 2b 5b wouldn't, except pick up otherwise difficult to frog characters and deal more damage. Also, I didn't know which characters it did and didn't work on, so I can't say much about Noel, Carl, or Nu.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Also, I didn't know which characters it did and didn't work on, so I can't say much about Noel, Carl, or Nu. iirc 6C doesnt even pic up Haku in CT, although i've only tried it once, Noel, Carl and Nu all have small hitboxes and iirc they cant be OTG'ed by anything other than a move that hits the floor, ie 3C on normal 2B on weird 3C chars, and for litchi 5C on normal 2B on them anorexic loli shota bitches
GenoWhirl Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 so... 5b -> 5cdc -> 214a -> 6c -> 236c -> 6a -> Sword Iris JC J.c DJ J.c 236a does 3k that's good for CS Rachel isn't it?
Spirit Juice Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 3C will never OTG hit Carl, Nu, Noel, and I think Tager.
Tari Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 so... 5b -> 5cdc -> 214a -> 6c -> 236c -> 6a -> Sword Iris JC J.c DJ J.c 236a does 3k that's good for CS Rachel isn't it? All characters: 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a 214c j.b j.c j.b j.c j.236a - ~2.6k - 2.7k 3c characters: 5b 5cdc 214a 6c j.236c j.2c - ~2.4k - 2.5k //knockdown with a pole for cancelling into 214c 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a 214b 3c (1-2 hits) 214c 3c (pumpkin oki) - ~2.4k 2b/5b characters: 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 5b 236a j.2c - ~2.2k //knockdown with a pole for cancelling into 214c 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 5b 236a 6a 214c j.b j.c JC j.b j.c j.236a - ~2.7k - 2.8k
Spirit Juice Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Hazama CAN be hit with OTG 3C, but the timing is very strict. It's probably not worth going for in most cases.
crazycrackers Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Now we just need the damage calculations for BBL combos. Also is hazama 2b 5b froggable? Otherwise it would seem 3c is the only option since I've seen 5cdc 236b whiff on him multiple times, but I guess thats just spacing dependent.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Now we just need the damage calculations for BBL combos. Also is hazama 2b 5b froggable? Otherwise it would seem 3c is the only option since I've seen 5cdc 236b whiff on him multiple times, but I guess thats just spacing dependent. i believe 5BD 5CC was the answer to that
kro_ Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 6c otg into frog does the most damage among otgs, but you have to be pretty close to the opponent to land it. Anyway: 5b 5cdc 214a 6c j.236c 6c j.c j.214c sj j.c j.c j.236a - does like 3.3k On the other hand: 5b 5cdc 214a 6c j.236c 6a BBL (no followup) - only did like 3.5k, but at least you get forced knockdown Rather than trying to end combos in knockdown, I've been going for max damage combos that end with the opponent airteching really high. Usually, it's enough time to summon a pumpkin and then chase the airtech with 6a, airthrow, or start zoning with lobelias.
Tari Posted January 24, 2010 Posted January 24, 2010 Yeah, knockdown is pretty hard to justify, especially if the combo doesn't grant you enough time to pull a pumpkin out safely. Anyway, correction on the elevator combo: should be j.b j.c 2d JC j.2c. I knew I'd gotten something wrong in my notation, but I couldn't remember what, until I went and did the combo. :/ The particular usage of the combo seen in the video is probably Tager/Hakumen and corner specific, due to the fact that they have large hitboxes and will get caught in the entirety of BBL. On other characters, a 63214d6c seems to be the necessary response, or a dash after the j.2c before BBL (which may or may not work, haven't tested; dash 6a32146c works in both CT and CS, though, so it's possible). Edit: Landed it midscreen on Ragna, but I keep whiffing the full BBL on Lamda, so I'm not sure who it does and doesn't hit without extra wind. Level 2 j.2c starter gets around 4.4k. Not that it's going to happen normally. Also, if you wanna be silly, or you can kill someone with one more hit, any lobelia hit in the air can be RC'd into sword iris or air iris. Might be combo-able into BBL on counterhit, too. And 6a 2c combos in certain situations. :8/: Not useful, but also funny. Edit 2: Played with the elevator combo a bit more. It definitely works on all characters, though the timing is a bit tighter on some than on others. It breaks down mostly into two important parts: 1) Make sure you do 5b immediately after 6a lands, or a couple characters will float too high for the combo to land. 2) When doing the j.b j.c 2d JC j.2c, the goal is to reach a level 2 j.2c height before going into j.2c. You want to wait as short a time as possible, but still get a level 2 j.2c for its ground bounce. Also, on Tager, if you aren't confident in your execution, you can use a SJ j.b j.c 2d JC j.2c to make it a bit easier. An alternative, easier combo for 2002 dmg (about 300 less than the above) is 6a 5b j.b j.c 2d JC j.c land SJ j.b j.c JC j.b j.c j.236a. Both combos can combo into BBL during the landing section. The elevator combo gets around 3k damage (slightly more, iirc) off of BBL to a lobelia and frog, while the alternative gets around 2.7-2.8k off the same setup.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Transcript :3 i only did the ones that looked at all practical 5B 5CDC 236B iAD 214C land sj.C JC j.C 236A 5B 5CDC 214A 663C 1 hit 236A X2 663C 3 hit 214C 3C 214B 2.7K ish 5B 5CDC 214A 66 2B 5B 236A X2 66 6A 214C j.BC j.BC 236A 2.8K ish corner 5B 5CDC 214A 66 2B 5B 236A 5CC 3C 214B 2.2K ish 5B 5CDC 214A 66 3C 236A sj + wind j2C+D 236A 66 3C 214C 6C j.C j.C 236A 3.8K not bad 5B 5CDC 236B 663D 5CC 3C 214A 3.1K 5B 5CDC iAD 214C land 6C j.C j.C 236A 2.8K 6A j.C 2D jC lvl 2 J2C 5B j.BC j.BC 236A 2.4K 3C 9D 5B j.BC 2D jC j2C 5B j.BC j.BC 236A 2.1K 3C 9D 5CC 236B 66 214C j.BC j.BC 236A 2.1K flashy :3 5B 5CDC 214A 66 3C 236A X2 66 6C j.C 2D BBL 236A 66 3C 214C 6C j.C j.C 4.3K himesamagasm corner 5B 5CDC 214A 5B 236A 66 6C j.C BBL 214A 5B 28D j2C+D 5CC 3C 3 hits 214A 3.5K 5B 5CDC 236B 66 6A 7D BBL 66 (cross up) 28D j2C 236A 66 3C 214C 6C j.C j.C 326A 4.7K 5B 5CDC 214A 66 3C 1 hit 236A 6C j.C BBL 28D j2C 5CC 4K 6A 5B j.B[C] j.C JC j.C BBL land 236A 66 (cross up) 3C 214C j.BC j.BC 3K CH 2C 1D 6A BBl 66 (crossup) 28D j2C 236A 3C 214C j.BC j.BC 236A 4.2K 5B 5CDC 214A 66 3C 236A 28D j2c 236A X2 66 3C 214C 6C j.C 4.8K!!! from this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvF-4Va8CI
Tari Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Thanks for transcribing these. Didn't look too carefully, but this one caught my eye: 5B 5CDC 214A 66 3C 236A X2 66 6C j.C 2D BBL 236A 66 3C 214C 6C j.C j.C 4.3K himesamagasm Should be 1D.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Thanks for transcribing these. Didn't look too carefully, but this one caught my eye: Should be 1D. these weren't all of them like said, just ones i thought to be practical or impressive anyone going to arcades such as you should look over the video to see which you like and transcribe them yourselves, notice i didnt put any grab combos
kro_ Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Transcript and descriptions for Ma Dao combo video seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jvF-4Va8CI 1) 0:00-0:04 2b 5b jc j.3db j.c 5b 6dc j.c 5b 3c 214a - 1735 dmg Starts with a low attack, pushes the opponent to the corner with 6c, ends with knockdown into frog oki. 2) 0:05-0:11 5b 2d jc j.b j.a dj j.b j.a j.b j.c 5b 5cdc 236b IAD j.b j.c j.214c land sj.c dj j.c - 1907 dmg Ghetto double overhead starter. Frog combos 3) 0:12-0:16* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1-hit) 236a (x2) 3c 214c 3c - 2760 dmg A frog BnB on 3c midscreen characters ending with knockdown. Requires 1 wind. 4) 0:17-0:21 5b 5cdc 214a 3cd (3 hit) 236a (x2) 3c 214c 3c A frog BnB variation for 3c corner-only characters like Ragna and Jin. 5) 0:22-0:28 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a (x2) 6a 214c sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a A frog BnB variation for non-3c characters like Hazama, Lambda, and Carl. 6) 0:28-0:33 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a 5cc 3c - ~2200 dmg Universal corner frog combo ending in 5cc wallbounce. 7) 0:33-0:38 5b 5cdc 214a 3c 236a 5cc (236a whiff) 3c Corner frog combo ending in 5cc wallbounce on 3c characters. Creates an extra pole. 8) 0:38-0:47* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a sj 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 3847 dmg A damaging frog BnB for 3c characters. Requires 3 winds. 9) 0:48-0:57 5b (6dc j.c x2) 5b 5cdc 214a 3c 236a (backup a bit) 5cc (236a whiff) 3c -~3600 dmg Combo that carries opponent to corner and ends with 5cc wallbounce on 3c characters. Requires 3 winds. 236b combos 10) 0:58-1:03* 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a 214c sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2740 dmg A universal 236b BnB. Uses 1 wind. 11) 1:03-1:07 5b 5cdc 236b dash 3d 5cc dash 3c - 1920 dmg 236b combo ending in 5cc wallbounce. Must be somewhat near corner. 12) 1:07-1:12 5b 5cdc 236b IAD j.214c 6c j.c dj j.c - ~2900 dmg 236b combo incorporating IAD sword iris to move closer while keeping up the combo. Throw combos 13) 1:12-1:16* b+c 7d dash 5b sj j.b j.a j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2237 dmg The old CT throw BnB. Uses 1 wind. 14) 1:17-1:21 b+c 5b 2d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2200 dmg Corner throw into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. 15) 1:21-1:27 b+c 7d dash 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - 2809 dmg Air combo extender after throw BnB. Uses 2 winds. Other 16) 1:27-1:32 6a 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2500 dmg Air combo extender after 6a. Uses 1 wind. 17) 1:32-1:38 3c (delay) 9d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c 5b sj j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2100 dmg Air combo extender after 3c. Uses 2 winds. 18) 1:38-1:44 3c (delay) 8d 5cc 236b dash 214c dash j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a - ~2000 dmg Alternative combo from 3c starter. Uses only 1 wind. 50% heat combos 19) 1:45-1:55* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a (x2) 6c j.c 1d land 632146c 236a (x2) dash 3c 214c 6c j.c jc j.c j.236a - 4350 dmg A frog to BBL BnB on 3c characters. Requires 2 winds. 20) 1:56-2:06 5b 5cdc 214a 2b 236a (x2) 6c j.c 1d land 632146c 236a (x2) dash 3c 214c 6c j.c jc j.c - 4270 dmg Same as above for non-3c characters. Just use 2b otg. 21) 2:08-2:22 5b 5cdc 214a (walk 1 step) 5b 236a (frog hits) dash 6c j.c land 632146c 214a 5cc (whiff 1st hit) dash 5b (frog hits) sjc 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 214a - 3669 dmg An advanced corner only frog combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Makes use of 5c whiff c wallbounce to refrog the opponent after BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Requires 3 winds but regens 2 winds during the combo. 22) 2:23-2:32* 5b 5cdc 236b dash 6a32147d6c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4761 dmg An advanced midscreen 236b combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Uses 6a and 7d before BBL to increase opponent's height. Rachel then dashes under the opponent and uses the momentum to catch the opponent falling from BBL with lvl3 j.2c using just 1 wind. Requires 3 winds. More throw combo setups 23) 2:32-2:40 b+c 6d IAD 6d j.a j.c 1d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2300 dmg A midscreen throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 3 winds. 24) 2:40-2:45 b+c 9d dash 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~1900 dmg A somewhat near corner throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 1 wind. More 50% heat combos 25) 2:46-2:57 5b 5cdc 214a dash 6c (frog hits) j.236c land 6c j.c land 632146c sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 3c 214a - ~3900 dmg An advanced corner only frog combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c that uses only 2 winds and regens 1 during the combo. 26) 2:57-3:08 5b 3c (delay) 9d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4587 dmg 3c air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 17 and 22. Uses 3 winds. 27) 3:08-3:17 6a 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~4000 dmg 6a air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 16 and 22. Uses 2 winds. 28) 3:18-3:30 b+c 7d dash 5b jc j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4377 dmg Throw air combo extender into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 15 and 22. Uses 3 winds. 29) 3:31-3:39 6a 5b jc j.b j.[c] j.c dj j.c 632146c (dash under opponent) 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~2500 dmg Air combo into air BBL. Mainly demonstrates that j.c > hold c > j.c and air BBL will combo after j.c. 30) 3:40-3:48 2c CH 1d 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - ~4100 dmg Chair counterhit combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 2 winds. 31) 3:49-4:00* 5b 5cdc 214a 3c (1 hit) 236a sj 8d 2d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 6a32147d6c 236a (x2) 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c - 4869 dmg A damaging frog BnB into BBL for 3c characters. Requires 4 winds. 32) 4:01-4:11 air b+c 2d 5b jc j.b j.c 2d jc (lvl2) j.2c dash 6a 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 4200 dmg Airthrow combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 3 winds. 33) 4:11-4:22 b+c 6d IAD j.b j.c 632146c (dash under opponent) sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 236a dash 3c 214c 6c j.c dj j.c j.236a - 3820 dmg Alternative throw combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. Similar to combo 22. Uses 2 winds. 34) 4:23-4:34 b+c 5b 2d 5cc 6c j.c land 632146c sj 8d (lvl3) j.2c 5cc (whiff 1st hit) 3c 214a - 3450 dmg Corner throw combo into BBL and lvl3 j.2c. A combination of combos 14 and 25. Uses 2 winds.
kro_ Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 Doublepost I took the liberty of putting a little asterisk (*) on combos that I felt were the most practical, but everything is there. Someone doublecheck them and see if the descriptions make sense. Also, anything that involves running under them and doing lvl 3 j.2c (i.e. combo 22) is hard. Much harder than anything she had in CT. I was pretty impressed at how he organized the combos well enough to categorize them.
God_Of_Olympus Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 :< geez kro_ just couldn't accept defeat >_> just kidding lol j.a is no longer an overhead btw guess the combo is still ghetto though
crazycrackers Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 all of rachel's combos are ghetto. anyway, so do we know anything about how much any of those combos would do started with 2b, 2a, 4b, or something? Also on combo 23: "23) 2:32-2:40 b+c 6d IAD j.a j.c 1d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2300 dmg A midscreen throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 2 winds." In the vid, it appears he uses 3 winds, 6d twice, 1d to make 5cc connect properly. I THINK he uses 6d first when he throws jin, and then second when he is air dashing. EDIT: Kro_ I can double check everything, just not right at this moment. Btw, like 3 of the combos under the 50% heat section are missing 214a iirc. Its not really much of a problem since the frog is pretty much implied, but just telling you. EDIT 2: Combo 33, after throw 6d IAD its j.b j.c, not j.a j.c It would also be nice if we put those combos in the first post.
Tari Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 Nice list, Kro. :P Just as a note, for combo 23, it is possible to do it with one wind. I'm assuming he's starting a bit too far from the corner for one wind to work, so he's using two wind to cover more distance on the dash.
kro_ Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 :< geez kro_ just couldn't accept defeat >_> just kidding lol j.a is no longer an overhead btw guess the combo is still ghetto though I'm 'maining' like 5 different characters right now but since most tournaments are double elim I'll probably play Rachel at least once just because. Main reason I call it a double overhead is that there are two chances to go high/low with j.b: 1) right after 5b; 2) right before the dj. all of rachel's combos are ghetto. anyway, so do we know anything about how much any of those combos would do started with 2b, 2a, 4b, or something? Also on combo 23: "23) 2:32-2:40 b+c 6d IAD j.a j.c 1d 5cc 5cc 214b 3c 214a - ~2300 dmg A midscreen throw combo into 5cc wallbounce that sets up pumpkin and frog oki. Uses 2 winds." In the vid, it appears he uses 3 winds, 6d twice, 1d to make 5cc connect properly. I THINK he uses 6d first when he throws jin, and then second when he is air dashing. EDIT: Kro_ I can double check everything, just not right at this moment. Btw, like 3 of the combos under the 50% heat section are missing 214a iirc. Its not really much of a problem since the frog is pretty much implied, but just telling you. EDIT 2: Combo 33, after throw 6d IAD its j.b j.c, not j.a j.c It would also be nice if we put those combos in the first post. Ah, you're right on all accounts there. Should be fixed now. Thanks. Nice list, Kro. :P Just as a note, for combo 23, it is possible to do it with one wind. I'm assuming he's starting a bit too far from the corner for one wind to work, so he's using two wind to cover more distance on the dash. That's true. So depending on how far you are from the corner you either have to use 3, 2, or 1 wind to set up the 5cc wallbounce into pumpkin/frog oki. Just a question of whether or not it's really worthwhile.
choysauce Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 yay, finally a list of combos! time to practice hard again! Thanx Kro
Soniti Posted January 31, 2010 Author Posted January 31, 2010 :o. Want me to put those in the first post?
crazycrackers Posted January 31, 2010 Posted January 31, 2010 definitely, that would be great. Also, does anyone know why, in the video, whenever he starts a lvl2 j.2c combo with 6a, he doesn't use j.b before j.c? Like for example: 6a 5b JC j.c2d dj (lvl2) j.2c 5b SJ j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a Maybe lvl2 j.2c will whiff because of the height gain from 6a (as apposed to other starters like 3c9d) if you put in j.b before j.c2d?
Tari Posted February 1, 2010 Posted February 1, 2010 definitely, that would be great. Also, does anyone know why, in the video, whenever he starts a lvl2 j.2c combo with 6a, he doesn't use j.b before j.c? Like for example: 6a 5b JC j.c2d dj (lvl2) j.2c 5b SJ j.b j.c dj j.b j.c j.236a Maybe lvl2 j.2c will whiff because of the height gain from 6a (as apposed to other starters like 3c9d) if you put in j.b before j.c2d? It's supposedly easier if you omit the j.b off the 6a 5b starter. If you don't do 5b immediately after 6a and you don't do j.b as early as possibly, the j.2c will whiff. Oh, but there is one key difference between adding the j.b and not adding it. If you add the j.b, you cannot do a 5b after the j.2c. The opponent will tech too high, so you're reduced to doing a SJ j.b j.c JC j.b j.c j.236a. The damage is actually better doing it without the j.b, as it turns out, though. The 5b on the ground tacks on an extra 100-150 dmg over the j.b in the air.
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