[CS1] Jin Gameplay Discussion v2 (No bitching edition)

[smooshman]

I suppose I should try to clarify my earlier post. I actually found the video, and it wasn't versus Bang, but Hazama. All those Bang players trying to bring Jin to justice messed up my memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jDF4m8-qf8

or

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9010269

start at 2:41 and again at 4:43.

The end of the combo was an attempted throw that was escaped out of. However on both occasions Hazama was hit by jC.

Now my question is: does this consistently work? Because to my understanding, since Hazama was no longer part of the previous combo, essentially the grab break set-ups for a free non-probated jC.

So if this is a true set-up, Jin has a follow-up regardless of if the throw was successful or not, right?

But I'm just a scrub so I guess I'll go back to lurkin'; just wanted to be clear.

Well it's not garuanteed but it's definitely safe worst case scenario opponent blocks it and you both land and keep fighting. the best you hit and assuming you jumped only once you can do something like: 236C dash and I guess jD and 214B or something

Honestly, he should have gone for a Fatal Counter combo.

The other day I was playing someone at the arcade and after they whiffed an uppercut I came up with 2C (Fatal Counter) into 6C and did a large corner combo after that. I don't remember what I did, but people around me were surprised how I hit 5k with only 25% bar.

Kind of scary, wondering what his max damage for a Fatal Counter will truly be.

Still messin' around with that. I know we got people here finding 7.4k + damage with Hakumen with his fatals, ugh!!!

So, you are telling me your willing to spend another 50% to do a combo after his Counter Super? I'll tell ya' right now, seeing as how the super takes FOREVER for him to finish his pose, the most I've ever seem to do is 4k max... bleehhhhh. Better saving that bar for another super.

are you fucking serious I had to spend 100 heat in CT to just scrape the 7000 mark

EDIT: I think the reason they added the counter super was to make him more balanced defense and offense wise and offense needs various options whereas defense needs far fewer so the the counter is to raise his defense game. because he is the "balanced" character

[Moy_X7]

5D > 66 > 5C works? Sweet, it's good to know that you can actually do something after you freeze someone with it without spending 25 Heat on 214D. 2C is faster now huh? It makes sense, it wouldn't be fair to just nerf the move by removing its ability to JC afterwards on block. I have a question... so is it impossible to follow-up DP C(CH) with 5C or doest it require a very strict timing? If it's not possible to follow up with 5C then I'll guess we'll be stuck with DP C(CH) > 66 > 5B > j.A > rest of air combo. With air combos in mind, I have yet another question... I've seen a lot of people drop air combos when they follow up with j.C as opposed to good old j.2C. Is there a reason as to why this is happening or did they just drop the combo because of slow timings? I remember reading a while back that j.C and j.2C deal the same amount of damage, I'll probably just play it safe and stick to the CT air combos. If somebody gets the chance, could they try a couple of old CT combos for me and post the amount of damage they do? 1.) 5B > 5C > Sekka-Jin > 66 > 5C > sJC > j.C > j.D > Air Dash > j.B > j.2C > 214B (about 2900 Damage). Mmm, if I remember correctly, that air dash follow up is no longer applicable. So would the alternative be Air Dash > j.2C > j.C > (land)66 > 5B > 5C > 3C? I love using this combo in CT against Bang and Rachel since 5C > j.B doesn't work on them and I was wondering if there are better, more damaging combos as of now. 2.) 632146D (Ice Arrow) > 66 > 6D > 5C > sJC > j.B > j.2C > JC > j.2C > 214B (about 4700 Damage). Of course it might be a bit difficult to land this one but do try it as a reversal if you guys get the chance. 3.) In the corner... DP D > 6C > 6D > 5C > sJC > j.2C > 214B (about 5200 Damage). A good way to deal damage near the corner for the low price of 25 Heat. I hope I'm not asking for too much with this request... Oh, by the way, I remember reading that the old 5C > j.B still worked on Tager. Is this true?

[BANGER]

I have a question... so is it impossible to follow-up DP C(CH) with 5C or doest it require a very strict timing? If it's not possible to follow up with 5C then I'll guess we'll be stuck with DP C(CH) > 66 > 5B > j.A > rest of air combo.

With air combos in mind, I have yet another question... I've seen a lot of people drop air combos when they follow up with j.C as opposed to good old j.2C. Is there a reason as to why this is happening or did they just drop the combo because of slow timings? I remember reading a while back that j.C and j.2C deal the same amount of damage, I'll probably just play it safe and stick to the CT air combos.

I'm pretty sure it's impossible. 5C has less vertical hitbox now it seems, and doesn't have as fast a startup as 5B. Even 66 5B timing is strict; the tech time after CH 623C is much less than CT.

jC virtually has no vertical hitbox (well it does, but very very little). jC j2C jC j2C doesn't seem to work for me the last I played (second jC whiffs); you'd need to gain some extra air for the second jC to hit by doing jC j2C dj j2C jC instead. So that seems to be the staple so far.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone. I've only done one sitting so far and my memory can be hazy sometimes.

My turn for a question: after jC j2C dj j2C jC jD freeze, is there enough time to delay and use C ice car for knockdown?

[Moy_X7]

I'm pretty sure it's impossible. 5C has less vertical hitbox now it seems, and doesn't have as fast a startup as 5B. Even 66 5B timing is strict; the tech time after CH 623C is much less than CT.

jC virtually has no vertical hitbox (well it does, but very very little). jC j2C jC j2C doesn't seem to work for me the last I played (second jC whiffs); you'd need to gain some extra air for the second jC to hit by doing jC j2C dj j2C jC instead. So that seems to be the staple so far.

Huh, that really sucks, not only will the timing for 623C(CH) > 66 > 5B be strict but it also doesn't do very much damage. 5C's shorter range, 623C having slightly more recovery and shorter tech time all play a role to prevent it from connecting like before, as you explained.

Mmm, so it was j.C's lack of vertical range that prevented it from connecting correctly. Well, thanks for the info.

[PozerWolf]

My turn for a question: after jC j2C dj j2C jC jD freeze, is there enough time to delay and use C ice car for knockdown?

Depends how the long the combo is in general.

If all you hit with was just that air combo, then yes C Ice Ride will work just fine.

[Reyvin]

Questions in regards to Yukikaze: How does Jin react when countering a projectile/long range attack? Does he act like Hakumen where it stalls so that it's possible to whiff? Or does counterattack still work? Does it even work on projectiles? And if the attack does work on projectiles/long range attacks, is there any difference in spacing after the attack is done (meaning if someone counters the right attack, will it allow for Jin to make a combo out of it? I mean, there has to be a reason for making it a fatal counter...right?)?

[Veteru]

I'm pretty sure it's impossible. 5C has less vertical hitbox now it seems, and doesn't have as fast a startup as 5B. Even 66 5B timing is strict; the tech time after CH 623C is much less than CT.

It's not my intention to argue over the reasons (imo 623c has additional recovery time + possibly some other stuff), I can tell you that 623C counterhit still gives enough untechable time for 5C to combo. Depending on the character it could miss for hitbox/range issues etc... but I do know it does work against a few characters/situations.

By the way, 623C CH 5C sjBCD land 5B5C3C deals 2064 damage... in CT it did about 2500 so that's quite a drop... wonder if he still has the least meterless DP damage from his 623C?

[PozerWolf]

Questions in regards to Yukikaze: How does Jin react when countering a projectile/long range attack? Does he act like Hakumen where it stalls so that it's possible to whiff? Or does counterattack still work? Does it even work on projectiles? And if the attack does work on projectiles/long range attacks, is there any difference in spacing after the attack is done (meaning if someone counters the right attack, will it allow for Jin to make a combo out of it? I mean, there has to be a reason for making it a fatal counter...right?)?

You can't really combo after a Counter attack.

Why it's fatal counter, who cares. The people who program the game put it in as a joke from what it looks like.

And the way he counters projectiles is the same way Hakumen counters them.

Basically he will so do the counter animation, and in order to avoid it you must jump out of Jin's way.

Also, trying to do a combo after CH 623C is impossible mid-screen depending on the character. But in the corner, you can land a 5C no problem.

[smooshman]

does 236D> dash> 2b (still possibly freeze [timing])>air combo. still work EDIT: wow his freeze doesn't last long at all I've seen normal stun last longer if only there was a arbitrary meter that dictated how long it lasted I'm to tired to think about that now though.

[baohead]

It seems that the best way to do damage on standing opponent is by sweeping them down with 3c and relaunch with 2b. So far I tested: 1. 5b > 3c > 2b > 5c > j.2c > j.d> air dash >j.2c > j.c >5b > 3c 2. 5b > 3c> 2b > 5c > 6c > dash cancel > j.c > j.d > ice car C Im pretty sure both of them do more than 3k, with the 2nd one more stable, the first one get disconnected randomly. I appreciate if someone test them out And 5c(ch/crouch opp) > 6c > 2d doesnt work on some short characters like Nu, havent fully tested others yet

[Moy_X7]

It seems that the best way to do damage on standing opponent is by sweeping them down with 3c and relaunch with 2b. So far I tested:

1. 5b > 3c > 2b > 5c > j.2c > j.d> air dash >j.2c > j.c >5b > 3c

2. 5b > 3c> 2b > 5c > 6c > dash cancel > j.c > j.d > ice car C

Im pretty sure both of them do more than 3k, with the 2nd one more stable, the first one get disconnected randomly. I appreciate if someone test them out

And 5c(ch/crouch opp) > 6c > 2d doesnt work on some short characters like Nu, havent fully tested others yet

A 3K damage combo off 5B? Yes, please. I've seen Buppa use these 3C > 2C > Filler combos but I didn't pay attention to the damage output. Still, this is a nice replacement for 5C > j.B which also did a little over 3K.

5C > 6C no longer works on CH and crouching state Lambdas? That sucks major ass.

I hate to be such a damn nuisance but here it goes again...

Does 5C > j.B still work on Tager?

[PozerWolf]

Wait what? 2D works after a 6C on every character. Hint: Try delaying 2D, it will work.

[baohead]

A 3K damage combo off 5B? Yes, please. I've seen Buppa use these 3C > 2C > Filler combos but I didn't pay attention to the damage output. Still, this is a nice replacement for 5C > j.B which also did a little over 3K.

5C > 6C no longer works on CH and crouching state Lambdas? That sucks major ass.

I hate to be such a damn nuisance but here it goes again...

Does 5C > j.B still work on Tager?

yes it does work, and you can vary it by slipping j.c in the combo. So far I havent play too much tager.

And I know 6c > 2D will connect for every character, it just that thing seems to mess up when you add hits before 6c such as 5c/5b on crouch opponent. I hope Im just wrong here

[smooshman]

how come the Ice lasts so short? I mean the difference between ice and stun are real but shouldn't time be the most obvious?

[Moy_X7]

yes it does work, and you can vary it by slipping j.c in the combo. So far I havent play too much tager.

And I know 6c > 2D will connect for every character, it just that thing seems to mess up when you add hits before 6c such as 5c/5b on crouch opponent. I hope Im just wrong here

Nice, thanks for the info.

[BANGER]

Looks like Tager will be the subject of old CT bnbs, lol. From what little I played today (or yesterday), yes, 5C jB does work, along with CH 236C -> 5C. Timing is stricter, but possible.

[Sol.Badguy]

1st, what does bnb stand for plz >.< . 2nd, I heard that characters auto break out of jins ice now without the rapid tapping etc, are there any other recognizable debuff? oh and what is an oki? >.o ty!

[VietGeek]

BnB = Bread 'n Butter IIRC, basically, staple combos.

Read PozerWolf's rather comprehensive changelist for your other question: here

[BANGER]

Yep, I couldn't wait anything else, Yukikaze is an AH that Jin never needed, I'm still trying to figure out if there is another reason to give him that AH appart of being a plot device to tie him with hakumen.

Appart from that, do someone has a video where a Jin plays without using the same jC to keep distance from the oponent over and over again? the only ones that I saw where of Jins that looks like waiting with jC for a mistake of the opponent in order to start an attack instead of trying to rush down like in CT. Jin look soo less rush down in CS to me, at least in the videos that I have. Maybe I'll end moving to Ragna but well only time will tell.

You mean Super right? His AH is still the same.

As for jC hit fishing, that's pretty much the safe way to play Jin atm it seems. He's pretty much a new character. jB blows compared to CT jB, and that being one of his main offensive tools really hurts all the offensive CT Jin mainers. Hopefully buppa comes up with something soon.

[smooshman]

his new super looks cool though. the problem is most jin players aren't used to turtling moves so it will be a while before we see it commonly used. but the reality is that it it will be very helpful, no more using ice arrows to beat rushdown. And eventually someone will find a combo for it... hopefully

[lxMetalSonicxl]

The FC on Yukikaze is probably for a RC combo. 100% meter is horrible though for Jin. Either way, his new super has its uses. Easy to see Tager pressure, predictable Ragna pressure, closing the distance on Lambda, etc. I wonder if you can input the super in after an IBed Lambda 236D after the first hit. Most likely there is too much blockstun though.

[Kurugaze]

I'm not sure if this is the best thread to ask this in, but I can't really find any others that fit better, so: Does anyone have advice for beating Unlimited Ragna at the end of Jin's arcade mode in CS? I have an easy time whooping the machine up until I get to him, and i'd prefer not to think of money i've blown on that one fight.

[Agent P]

The FC on Yukikaze is probably for a RC combo. 100% meter is horrible though for Jin.

Either way, his new super has its uses. Easy to see Tager pressure, predictable Ragna pressure, closing the distance on Lambda, etc.

I wonder if you can input the super in after an IBed Lambda 236D after the first hit. Most likely there is too much blockstun though.

Of course it has it uses, a move needs really high merits to be considered useless, but still I see it as a circumstantial tool mostly effective against inexperienced players.

Also, this super needs a 100% meter? Is that true? if that's the case then even worse because you need a Jin at 100% to warn the opponent to be more cautious with their attack pressure (psycological effect "a la shungokustatsu") but after a super or any other D special then they're free to keep going with their pressure. Don’t like it

[Brotrr]

Yukikaze is fine. It's like a 5th shoryuken that does more damage than the 623D but costs 25 more heat. It's not just inexperienced players who fall for counters, it's all part of the mindgames.

[smooshman]

when the combo meter goes blue I see this thing in the corner, below the count and above the damage, that shows a series of numbers. what do they mean?