Henaki Posted January 25, 2010 Posted January 25, 2010 whelp: this matchup sucks as far as i know, there is no way to beat the j(the one that goes slightly down but kinda horizontal)D after it touches you. maybe you can IB 2C but im unaware of if thats possible. the followup i believe he has frame advantage during because at no point could i beat him after it touched for some reason. if anyone has tips on that, this matchup would be a lot easier. anyway onto some dumb tricks i picked up if he does the overhead off D stance, you can 2a it for a counter hit pretty easily. 2a also beats 5D -> fast followup (as well as 5a), this will land as a counter hit generally and give you a free combo. he can bait this in weird ways so dont rely on it. magnatech is also good after his followups generally, you can buffer it and react to the fly animation and if he presses buttons he gets hit. dont back dash the followups! it takes a long time and he can just punish them maybe my timing was off but IB didnt help me a lot on drives. if someone wants to chime in with better (more scientific) evidence id like to hear it but generally most of the counters i tried failed. cant think of anything else besides dont get hit by CH super! that shit hurts even on tager.
OrionXElite Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 I haven't played any real aggressive Hazama users yet so I really only know of that one BnB combo he has involving his mashed C attacks I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). But whenever I play against Hazama, its a very hit and run game he plays generally. D drive to latch on, if he gets a CH, he'll fly in and get a few hits and any viable combos from it and then flys right back out of there. So I've determined 2 ways to play to force Hazama to act. First: Turtle like theres no tomorrow and try and bait a punishable approach. Farm a Spark Bolt and see if you can get a clean shot because if you have more health, you can play defensively and MAKE Hazama get in close which is where he has trouble against Tager. Second idea is to get in his face by means of doing Sledge through his drives and trying to get in at him. If you can get close, Hazama is now out of his element and all you really have to weary of are his low and high attacks off D stance and his CH super. throw in a hard pressure game, Hazama should be stuck for a good while unless he tries to use his drive to fly away from you. oh and I just thought of something, get him magnetized! If Hazama is magnetized, it forces him to stay on the ground for fear of getting roped in by AC and if hes magnetized and you can bait him to reel in close to you, 360 and 720 options become available too.
Isorropia Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 When characters have ways to influence their aerial movement (ala hazamas chains) it tends to win out over magnetism. That is, despite AC's magnetic pull, the altered trajectory he introduces with his chains will cause the AC to miss and then it just gets messy.
OrionXElite Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 Yeah actually that makes sense now that I think about it. I remember trying to pull Litchi out of the move where she jumps to her staff and throws it at the enemy and her action prevented my AC from pulling her in because its the nature of her attack. Same goes for Hazama apperently. But I do know that anytime Hazama is in the air and he isn't in the process of throwing his chains, he can be pulled in by AC. If I remember right, anytime his chain is not out, its possible to pull him while he is in the air.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 i was wondering can you jump IB the chain's so if he thinks its smart to come in you can use the +10 frames to your advantage?
Mike Z Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 After IB chain you can airthrow him pretty much for free. You can either do 720, or do 360A whiff->360B vs. the kick super, during the super flash.
Henaki Posted January 26, 2010 Posted January 26, 2010 After IB chain you can airthrow him pretty much for free. You can either do 720, or do 360A whiff->360B vs. the kick super, during the super flash. air or ground instant block? i assume air
Mike Z Posted January 27, 2010 Posted January 27, 2010 Ground. IB chain, if you see a followup begin, jump up and airthrow him. I usually miss my air IBs. :^P
Tofu Warrior Posted February 2, 2010 Posted February 2, 2010 Is it possible to stuff his DP? I heard it has poor invincibility. If not, what can I do to punish after I block it?
RAQU 17 Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Is it possible to stuff his DP? I heard it has poor invincibility. If not, what can I do to punish after I block it? It actually has GREAT invulnerability (when attacking). But it's not a 1F start up so it's not a true reversal. It's an amazing AA for Hazama. You can try stuffing it before he does the kick(in his 214D stance). This move is also unsafe on block. Or if youre talking about his Kick Super and not his 214D~B, It has lame invulnerability, but will almost always leave him with the upperhand on trades. He usually recovers from most staggers off that trade and can continue his combos as normal. In summary, Block the Super and if you're fast enough, stuff the 214D~B (before he can push B) for a CH. Blocking 214D~B is good too.
FlyingVe Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 I thought Hazama's Flash Kick (214D~B) had no invulnerability but it moves his hitbox back in an evasive fashion. Just block and 5C (if CH combo from there). Couldn't you backdash > 360? Hazama moves backwards when he does his Flash Kick so I doubt you could catch him without magnetism.
RAQU 17 Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Nope, Flash kick is 214D~B is full body invulnerability once the attack is initiated. Backdash buster would probably work on 236236B the Kick Super.
Henaki Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 iirc you can just 720 on reaction to kick super in the by buffering it in the flash!
Leo7 Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Even if you do your 720, and the Hazama player buffers a Hotenjin during your super flash, as long as you hold the button down, your 720 will catch him.
Tofu Warrior Posted February 25, 2010 Posted February 25, 2010 Yeah, I wanted to know how to punish his flash kick either before it comes out or after I block it. I know 720 beats Hotenjin and 360+A will cause Hazama to pass right through you, allowing you to 360+B his recovery. I thought Hazama's Flash Kick (214D~B) had no invulnerability but it moves his hitbox back in an evasive fashion. Just block and 5C (if CH combo from there). 5C is my only punish option on block? I don't think it even gives you CH. Weak. 5As will trade with flash kick but that isn't helpful.
GZ-Matthias Posted February 26, 2010 Posted February 26, 2010 if he does the overhead off D stance, you can 2a it for a counter hit pretty easily. If you can bait overhead by standing at it's range, you can 5C it and combo off the mid-air CH. Basically don't even bother worrying about blocking overhead off D stance. If you react fast enough use 5C as a counter for much better damage. If you're late, 2A CH.
Leo7 Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 If you can bait overhead by standing at it's range, you can 5C it and combo off the mid-air CH. Basically don't even bother worrying about blocking overhead off D stance. If you react fast enough use 5C as a counter for much better damage. If you're late, 2A CH. You can also do 360A to catch him out of the overhead. Also, after watching Maho's vids and after playing a bit of Hazama recently, I find that CH 2A is a nice situational anti-air for his drive movements. If he does the B-Drive pull, sometimes you can do a 360A and catch him as he lands. But yea, situational, don't rely on these. Also, Hazama's DP is annoying me as well (214D > B).
Manta Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 Also, Hazama's DP is annoying me as well (214D > B). Surely the good old fashioned backdash'n'throw technique is effective against that?
Leo7 Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 Surely the good old fashioned backdash'n'throw technique is effective against that? The majority of the time, it's either being used as an anti-air (in which case I block, land, and do nothing, and I'm not sure if I can punish it when I land) or it's used to punish bad blockstrings. I've had more success baiting Hotenjins than baiting this DP.
Manta Posted March 16, 2010 Posted March 16, 2010 The majority of the time, it's either being used as an anti-air (in which case I block, land, and do nothing, and I'm not sure if I can punish it when I land) or it's used to punish bad blockstrings. I've had more success baiting Hotenjins than baiting this DP. From what I can see from the frame data, Tager doesn't seem to have any air move with invulnerability or autoguard, nor does he have any move the a particularly low hitbox like Haku-men's j.2C. Instant Blocking or simply not jumping might be your only options. Of course, i can't read Japanese (I'm just comparing symbols from moves I know to have invulnerability) so I could be wrong.
Isorropia Posted March 16, 2010 Posted March 16, 2010 Nothing has invuln but j.b will clash a surprising amount of the time if at its maximum range. And although it won't help much against hazamas kick, I guess j.2c's stalling property could help...somehow. >.>
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