Osuna Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Well, jump forward is how everyone beats 6A off of gadget finger. Gadget finger doesn't guarantee anything really. It's a mix up (for both players). if she's hopping over you, collider instead. You shouldn't be using 6A after gadget that much anyway, it loses to DP in that situation. As well as pokes, on top of jumping forward which seems to be what she's doing? I mean, there's no way you'd complain about hitting her with it, right? Her moves are a little hard for me to see personally, because they are all covered by pink glowy mist effects, but she does have an (more than one?) overhead, lows and 1 move that is unblockable on full charge, so you can't just sit there blocking one way all day. IB is a solid method missing from your posted attempts. The match really really shouldn't be over after she hits you one time. She'd almost certainly need at least 3 or 4 combos to KO tager even with extra damage from zoning. And that's if she miraculously has charge and/or meter frequently available. Sorry I don't have a lot to share with you, but I just can't understand what you're talking about. I think we need to know more specifically what's happening. It's much easier to fix what's going wrong than to re-explain how things are going right for us.
loerg Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 lets see tager wins this match every time its extremely bad for her do absolutly anything and you win :3 you can super jump 2C the whole match if you want. you can voltec charge the whole match and you win lol
Leo7 Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 lets see tager wins this match every time its extremely bad for her do absolutly anything and you win :3 you can super jump 2C the whole match if you want. you can voltec charge the whole match and you win lol :8/:
DoomieJ Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 lets see tager wins this match every time its extremely bad for her do absolutly anything and you win :3 you can super jump 2C the whole match if you want. you can voltec charge the whole match and you win lol Your ignorance is monumental. You are just making this forum less and less useful. telling people stuff like you can voltec charge the whole match and win is not only idiotic, but misinformation. I would love to see you face a half descent tsu, because even though she is a weak character, so is tager. It's just BB though, so i guess its par for the course. Good shit.
Darwock Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 If I can face the shame I'll see if I can youtube some of my attempts for feedback. I just have no luck with blocking her basically - she gets in first every time and keeps the momentum whatever I do.
A.X.I.S. Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 I'll check a few things and do a lol detailed write up on why you don't have to try hard and win. give me about a hour or two.
Sponson Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 Your ignorance is monumental. You are just making this forum less and less useful. telling people stuff like you can voltec charge the whole match and win is not only idiotic, but misinformation. I would love to see you face a half descent tsu, because even though she is a weak character, so is tager. It's just BB though, so i guess its par for the course. Good shit. I can't tell if you took the bait or not.
JinSaotome Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 he did except it's kind of not bait...? I don't even know Damn, loerg, you should take TB's advice on inside jokes
Mike Z Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 It you don't know what you're dealing with, she can actually be a very hard matchup. Heck, I got nearly double perfected by Zaido at a tournament because I didn't have enough experience. Basically the advice for fighting her is - play as dumbly as you can. For every hit you land, she has to land 2 or 3, so if you win 1/3 of the exchanges you will win overall. Churn that butter during her blockstrings since the holes between each of her normals are gigantic if you IB any of them...and if she ever stops attacking in a blockstring or combo, an unblockable is coming so 720 or 360A or backdash immediately. And do meaty Sledge on her wakeup, she can't beat it with anything - it even stuffs her super.
Darwock Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 Any tips for how to start the round? I have never encountered a Tsubaki who didn't immediately backdash and/or jump to try and gain charge. So 90% of the time I open with like a 2D or a BSledge to close the distance.. usually if I get close enough to connect I'll try another sledge and that'll be when I immediately get counter hit into stun and the combos begin :/
Mike Z Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 If they run, charge your Spark. Letting them get charge means they try to unblockable you more, which means you get more 360As. ;^)
DoomieJ Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 I can't tell if you took the bait or not. Does it really matter? Do my words ring out any less truth because i was baited into saying it? Thanks for actually throwing down some knowledge Mike.
loerg Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 knowledge is power! power of science! knowledge of science!
Leo7 Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 yo loerg, whether you're trolling or not ... stop posting. So 90% of the time I open with like a 2D or a BSledge to close the distance.. usually if I get close enough to connect I'll try another sledge and that'll be when I immediately get counter hit into stun and the combos begin :/ How about not doing risky stuff like potentially whiffing attacks to close the distance. If the Tsubaki plays lame and turtles and builds charge, then just be patient and walk forward. Really, walking forward works just fine. But yes, this match-up isn't free. Tsubaki is capable of whiff punishing your stuff from full screen, so you shouldn't be pressing buttons when you're far away. If the Tsubaki likes to throw out an attack at the beginning of the match, 5C is a decent opening attack that stuffs a bunch of her normals.
loerg Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 yes i be trollin it was fun while it lasted, sorry for any misinformation
Heroic_Legacy Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 Really, a lot of people who don't know this matchup won't be saved by Tager's godliness in this matchup. Because it isn't that uneven...most of the time. Just watch for 22D and Tsubaki shenanigans with her shitty overhead and 3C. Don't fall asleep. You'll die. Tsubaki makes for fun fodder before facing the horde of Ragna mains again.
A.X.I.S. Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 ugh I was gonna do this long drawn out write up about this match but you guys covered the basic details of it before I got the chance. plus I took a nap. but since you guys said all the good things I don't have to any more.
FlyingVe Posted September 24, 2010 Posted September 24, 2010 Don't fall asleep. You'll die. Tsubaki makes for fun fodder before facing the horde of Ragna mains again. This is the truth. Don't sleep on the low tiers. They are only C, they can definitely win if you're not paying attention or don't know the matchup. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but, can't Tsubaki space her 22[D] unblockable to avoid 360A?
Darwock Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 Alright, this is asking for trouble but here are the replays of the two Tsubaki matches I fought today. I lost both, obviously. The first one destroyed me, and basically after the first couple of combos I had mentally retired from the match and started spamming sledges. I know that is a big fault but what could I have done differently to avoid losing control of the match in the first place? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPi088EIrxg The second one was a bit closer but again I lost. If I hadn't dropped some combo opportunities or fluffed a couple of inputs at the end (that jump in AC was supposed to be a 720 >< ) it might have gone my way, but from what you have all said it shouldn't even have come down to that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp8SpqPUK8w
Heroic_Legacy Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 Block more. You shouldn't be eating stuff for free.
Mike Z Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 tl;dr - Yes, this is a super-easy matchup if you and the Tsubaki player are both good, but that isn't the case here. :^) You need to improve on a lot of basic gameplay first... General: #0 - Learn your punishes. There is more damaging stuff you can do off a throw, but why are you punishing with a regular throw in the first place? You're Tager! :^) 360B, Gadget does more damage than all that junk even without an ASledge in-between, and isn't burstable. Her DPs and shield rush are easily punishable as well. #0.5 - Learn your combos, too. At least practice enough so you don't screw up the ones used regularly off easy starters like a throw or CH Elbow. Some of that was pretty large damage and situational advantage you missed out on. (^.^) #0.55 - Like Heroic says, block more. A lot more. Stop trying to just do something at neutral situations until you know what you want to do. There are a lot of normal throw whiffs and a lot of you getting counterhit for no reason, heh. Matchup: #1 - There is no reason to use BSledge to try to get close in this matchup. She doesn't have anything she'll use from far away that's a projectile! (People do this to other melee chars like Litchi and Tao too, and I don't really understand it.) Remove that from your repertoire completely and you will improve immediately. #1.5 - There is one use for Sledge - if you smell a DP or Super coming (after a Gadget, for example, or on wakeup) you can Sledge it and completely destroy her. Do ASledge in this situation until they stop, getting CH DP'd once doesn't cost you much health. #2 - Why are you impatiently trying to get in, especially by air? Elbow will get you killed, her 2B (or is that 2C? Doesn't matter, the wing one) is one of the best antiairs in the game. #2.5 - If she's waiting around at full screen, charge that Spark...let her get her levels - it doesn't matter, really. You can beat her out of any rushdown she tries. If you get the opportunity, don't start moving in (by walking) until you have that Spark. #2.75 - Yes, she can space the unblockable so you can't 360A her, but you can always backdash it pretty easily if you are ready to, which at least gets you a small retaliation plus making her waste the level.
Darwock Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 Thanks for the tips. I tried to take the advice on board and I think the result is my entire game has broken, not just for Tsubaki but everyone :/ I was able to beat quite a lot of people the way I played before, but now I'm paranoid about always being ready to block first. So I end up just walking forwards and waiting to get killed. >< Correct me if I'm wrong but once the combos have started I can't block anyway? I was mashing back plus A+B for good measure and it had absolutely no effect.
natearistata Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 So long as the number on the combo stays red, there's nothing you can do until it's over and you've teched/they try to reset you. Or you burst, whichever. And believe me, I know how hard it is to play Tager patiently and try to block and punish with 360s. I'm still working on it. But you'll be eventually leagues better against decent players than you would when trying to get a bunch of sledges in.
Sponson Posted September 26, 2010 Posted September 26, 2010 Does it really matter? Do my words ring out any less truth because i was baited into saying it? You're right, I guess a joke isn't serious and that the untrue isn't true. Who would have thought, you deserve a medal for your supreme truth and. So whats the game plan for Tsubaki? A few pages ago Sledge was apparently really really good, and then now its just a matter of applying sledge after 360's and 720's. And does being hit by an unblockable give you enough time to 360?
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