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[CS1] Iron Tager Video Thread

bjholmes2

By bjholmes2
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Leo7

Leo7

Posted
Posted
Why does Tager always lose to Ragna? I've seen that matchup a lot in these videos we link to, and it almost never ends well for Tager...

Might as well ask why does Tager suck?

But in that video, the Tager player made a few bad decisions here and there (though overall, a pretty good Tager player IMO). Specific mistakes that I saw:

- When scoring a 360B in the first round, the Tager player should have done 360B > walk forward 2B > 2C > Collider for damage and corner positioning instead of 360B > 5B > 4D. IMO, Tager should never send his opponent out of the corner.

- I also think he messed up a reversal 360B after IB-ing the Ragna's 2B in the second round.

- Made the general mistake of not baiting Ragna's DP on wake-up (especially when Ragna has meter)

- Did not anti-air Ragna at all. The Ragna player was spamming j.C like it was the best move ever. There were a bunch of times where the spacing was just right for a 2A counter hit anti-air, or the Tager player could have even gone for a 2C/Collider but that's a bit more risky.

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Astaroth136

Astaroth136

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I never thought that Tager was godlike or anything, but he was decent. He did some really unnecessary stuff that cost him the match (attempted tech trap, wreckless pressure, etc). Personally, I hate the matchup. One combo and Ragna has 50 heat, which he uses to pressure like crazy.

DJ Koopa

DJ Koopa

Posted
Posted

Okay, so, I've been spending time in practice mode, managed to reach Mission 6 of Tager's challenges, and even bought the DLC colors to boost my morale. In some way... I HAVE to have improved in some way... I can't just have been wasting my time so far.

Haku-Men vs Tager

Tager vs Ragna

More criticisms, please? And I do mean criticism. Not telling me what a dumbass I am and how much I need to practice more.

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted

vs haku-men, nice tech trap on round 1.

you need to learn how to turn random CH's into damage, study FC combo's, and when haku air dashes then your answer is collider, backdash 360, or j.c,

other than that you need to stand tall and stay your ground, never give up your ground unless your forced to.

I couldn't bare to watch your fight against ragna.

with that said if you guys ever want to play me just message me on xbl...I'll hope to it when I get the chance.

Edalborez

Edalborez

Posted
Posted
Okay, so, I've been spending time in practice mode, managed to reach Mission 6 of Tager's challenges, and even bought the DLC colors to boost my morale. In some way... I HAVE to have improved in some way... I can't just have been wasting my time so far.

Haku-Men vs Tager

Tager vs Ragna

More criticisms, please? And I do mean criticism. Not telling me what a dumbass I am and how much I need to practice more.

On Ragna, end 360A with 5B>4D (In fact, one of the combo thread posts shows best things to do off of 360A on all characters I think). Gadget Finger on him is best to avoid if possible since he always has Inferno Divider to beat many options (online, at least. Bait it and it's a free 360.) 360 on his fullscreen Carnage Scissors was good, always punish them for doing that outside of combos. That Ragna was honestly pretty terrible, most of those fullscreen Hell's Fangs were free 360s especially on instant block.

If Haku wants to hang back, charge up spark (421B) but don't hold it. Let him come to you. Without meter or a good hit you can block everything low except 6B (overhead foot stomp) and even then I don't think that combos into anything for him (right, guys?)

Whenever you knock them away with say 6C>5D, either follow up with a little spark charge or Collider. Delay Collider if needed but if they are dumb enough to mash tech in the air it's a free combo.

B Sledge normal hit/A Sledge Counter Hit can be followed with 2B>2C>623C>etc on regular hit (assuming close enough for 2B of course), and B Sledge counter hit can be followed with 6A>2C>623C>etc.

You seem to have the basic magnetized BnB down (..stuff>AC>AC whiff>6B>2C>AC>ender) and that's a good meaty chunk of Tager right there. Finding ways into that (6A>2C, 2B>2C, air tech gets AC'd) are the meat and potatoes of your damage. Once you realize most combos are just opener>meat>ender it becomes pretty simple.

Even if you get your ass kicked, save replays of opponents who beat you soundly with good execution. Look through and find places where you might say "what could I do differently?" Then try it next time. For all of this to become natural you need opponents who can match up to your next milestone.

At this point you should have 2 goals in mind: learning how to turn your random hits into damage like Axis said (anti air CH 2A>AC, random 5A pokes into knockdown/Gadget) and putting those skills to work in training your opponent. Like I said above, if you always end, say, 6C>5D in volt charge they may eventually think it's safe to air tech. On the flip side, once they fall for it once be careful about using the same tech trap again. Same thing from Gadget, don't always do 360s, vary it up with 5/2/6A, j.B, or just blocking if needed. If you make them fear one of the two, air or ground, you can get more leverage out of it. Not as a rule, but still good intimidation.

Remember, Tager is all about making your opponent fear you. Methodical unpredictability is a more powerful weapon than 720.

edit: Again, this is all just my netplay experience talking. There's more at work in repeated playings and offline so for that I defer to the advice of others in the usefulness of my advice.

DJ Koopa

DJ Koopa

Posted
Posted

Again, thanks for all of your help guys. I ~think~ I'm getting even better... Starting to beat those people that are level 40+...and then getting rage kicked after. Still a taaaaad clunky on performing AC with the stick as opposed to the notched D-pad, but... Eh, it'll come. Or I'll get faster at stick-to-pad switches or whatever.

Actually, today, I got ragekicked 31 times for beating people pretty badly. <_<

mundus

mundus

Posted
Posted

The things i saw was, try to keep you opponent in the corner, i saw many combos where you could have kept them in the corner if you didn't finish them. Also that Jin was jumping a lot, punish those jumps with 2Cs or a back dash. You should instant block more and you really shouldn't be hitting buttons in block strings, unless its a reversal move to punish something unsafe, but stuff are usually only unsafe if you ib or if you opponent likes to throw out unsafe moves during block strings. And that Hakumen player was pretty bad imo.

Heavy_Mental

Heavy_Mental

Posted
Posted

Work on your defense and mixup. Learn how to tick-throw. 360 off 6A is a pretty huge gimmick since 6A has so much recovery frames during which your opponent can get a CH off you. No one's going to caught by it after the first time. Go with 5A, 5B, 2B, j.A, and j.B instead.

I noticed that a lot of the combos you ate happened because you were getting impatient and hitting buttons when you were supposed to be blocking and waiting for their blockstring to finish. Barrier-blocking can be a good idea but also learn IBing if you can. It's online, I realize that, but IB helps out Tager's defense a good deal.

EDIT: Also, don't move backwards unless there's a very good reason to. It's smart to not put yourself at risk, but you also want to press the offensive. If your opponent's just jumping back, then there's your chance to get in, which is usually a grappler's biggest problem (but especially with Tager) besides dealing with pressure and zoning.

GZ-Matthias

GZ-Matthias

Posted
Posted

-360B > 5b > spark > MTW is a cool combo and all, but didn't KO Hakumen. You also missed the opportunity to do the same combo, but after spark you could do 2C > Atomic Collider (I can't remember if 5C > 6A > AC works), to force Hakumen into the Corner! Then you would have had meter stocked, and a chance to finish the round on one more mix up anyway, and a cornered opponent! If the mix up failed, having the meter stocked would be helpful to set up another mix up either then or later to save the round from becoming a comeback for Hakumen.

-In another round you do 6C > MTW and successfully bait a burst. Good! ... but you had 50 meter to hit with Terra Break for a KO and instead just did MTW > Gadget Finger. Then did a really unsafe MTW without meter to RC it. If he blocked or jump blocked you would have gotten punished and probably lost the round since your health was low too.

- Also beware getting addicted to flying around using J.C whiffs in the air for mobility. If it gets to be predictable, better opponents will murder you for flying in the air above them all the time. Anti-airs can and will hurt you.

mAc Chaos

mAc Chaos

Posted
Posted

^You had some amazing yomi in that match, Mike. You did that one 720 setup and I thought, "Damn, Dacid's gonna dodge that" and then you got him out of it.

I was meaning to ask, why do you always end that one combo with a purple throw? Does it just have no good finisher so you go for a purple throw because why not?

Hitage

Hitage

Posted
Posted

Thanks for the help guys. I've been being more patient and more defensive overall. This sounds terribly terribly noobish and it hurts my soul to ask but what's a good way to practice instant blocking? Most people say go into training mode and have the training dummy do combos ect. I just wanted to see if anyone else learnt/practiced it differently. I would ask this in the Q/A thread but I wanted to hear input from tager players.

Osuna

Osuna

Posted
Posted
Work on your defense and mixup. Learn how to tick-throw. 360 off 6A is a pretty huge gimmick since 6A has so much recovery frames during which your opponent can get a CH off you.
6A can be jump cancel canceled into a 360. The only problem is the timing and the sheer amount of hit stun giving you away, but 6A also gatlings into a low which can actually stop jump outs. It's not the best low/throw mix up, but it really is a low throw mix up.

You can even buffer a 360 before the 6A gets blocked and delay a second one for a 720 tick throw. No purple.

Although based on the talk about the loke test, jump cancel cancels are going to be gone to nerf litchi and makoto, getting rid of this mix up as well even if they keep 6A as jump cancelable.

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted

for me I did practice mode to get a basic grasp of the timing using ragna as the dummy, set him to do the 5B>5C>2C basic gatling.

after that I just played the game and chose to instant block things I'm looking for.

easy examples is anyones j.C or any slow punishable poke.

Heavy_Mental

Heavy_Mental

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the help guys. I've been being more patient and more defensive overall. This sounds terribly terribly noobish and it hurts my soul to ask but what's a good way to practice instant blocking? Most people say go into training mode and have the training dummy do combos ect. I just wanted to see if anyone else learnt/practiced it differently. I would ask this in the Q/A thread but I wanted to hear input from tager players.

That's pretty much it really. Learn how to IB common blockstrings, multi-hit moves, common pokes, etc. With enough repetition, IBing should become automatic.

6A can be jump cancel canceled into a 360. The only problem is the timing and the sheer amount of hit stun giving you away, but 6A also gatlings into a low which can actually stop jump outs. It's not the best low/throw mix up, but it really is a low throw mix up.

You can even buffer a 360 before the 6A gets blocked and delay a second one for a 720 tick throw. No purple.

Thanks for telling me what I already know?

NumeroGaijin

NumeroGaijin

Posted
Posted

WHats funny is I tend to suck at IBing in training mode with a string I made up and know is coming. But in the real thing I can IB nearly everything thats thrown at me most of the time.

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted

guys guys! they removed jump cancel cancel from the game at the moment, its the half assed way of getting rid of parry loop.

thats what someone said in the thread anyways.

also doing collider in response to someone bursting spark in the air is nothing new!

have you guys not seen the galileo strat vid!?

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