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[CS1] Iron Tager Video Thread

bjholmes2

By bjholmes2
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Silius

Silius

Posted
Posted
me vs LK.

I tried my best to play the match up...fuck my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cF_9cuPIs

You miss recoveries (blue beat).

You miss several moments where you could've catched Litchi in a 720, like for example at 1:15.

You often fall for IAD jump ins, maybe practice on doing a 623C/2C on reaction to that or block high.

Try not to let the opponent control the pace, too often you simply remain passive and wait for the opponent to come to you. Break their flow.

Rest is mostly just practice and experience. But mastery of the 720 makes this matchup less painful.

Skye

Skye

Posted
Posted
You miss recoveries (blue beat).

You miss several moments where you could've catched Litchi in a 720, like for example at 1:15.

You often fall for IAD jump ins, maybe practice on doing a 623C/2C on reaction to that or block high.

Try not to let the opponent control the pace, too often you simply remain passive and wait for the opponent to come to you. Break their flow.

Rest is mostly just practice and experience. But mastery of the 720 makes this matchup less painful.

Someone doesn't know the Litchi match up. Bitch does nothing but control space.

And what can Tager do about it?

Somewhere around nothing.

EDIT: lol mastery of 720

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted

um thanks for the moment I don't know why I didn't stand up in time to block the IAD's.

I wasn't being passive I was trying not to get killed for pressing buttons which a few times in the match happened.

I don't try to 720 LK much because he is more likely to jump out of my pressure than to eat a 720, notice in most the match when I knocked him down he tried to book it.

oh and 1:15 was fucking legit, I wouldn't dare buffer a 720 when litchi has the stick out, double that fear with a cross under 2A and you have a cluster fuck, that CH 6B was me trying to counter assault and it came out.

you must be new to tager, tager never controls space on litchi...ever.

its so easy to get CH'd 4K by her its not even funny and that oki game...yeah don't do something stupid...that is all.

Silius

Silius

Posted
Posted
Someone doesn't know the Litchi match up. Bitch does nothing but control space.

And what can Tager do about it?

Somewhere around nothing.

EDIT: lol mastery of 720

Of course I know it and I know it's hard as hell. Spacing isn't the same as pace.

"Mastery of 720" means that you can IB 720, know what and where you can punish with a 720 and then doing it. Call me lazy.

I'm not saying he played poorly, I'm stating what he could improve upon that would make this matchup easier. Sometimes it's enough if the opponent *knows* you can do it. Sometimes, taking risks is worth it.

um thanks for the moment I don't know why I didn't stand up in time to block the IAD's.

I wasn't being passive I was trying not to get killed for pressing buttons which a few times in the match happened.

I don't try to 720 LK much because he is more likely to jump out of my pressure than to eat a 720, notice in most the match when I knocked him down he tried to book it.

oh and 1:15 was fucking legit, I wouldn't dare buffer a 720 when litchi has the stick out, double that fear with a cross under 2A and you have a cluster fuck, that CH 6B was me trying to counter assault and it came out.

you must be new to tager, tager never controls space on litchi...ever.

its so easy to get CH'd 4K by her its not even funny and that oki game...yeah don't do something stupid...that is all.

I brought up elements you could improved upon, I didn't rack on your inability to block IAD overheads or calling you slow. I learned that the hard way, learning to deal with Bang and Litchi was a grueling nightmare (mind you, it still isn't "even").

You missed a few spots where you could've caught Litchi in a 720.

And don't forget about quick rise and that you cancel it into an offensive move (like a 360) or BB.

At 1:15 I wouldn't call it legit and you could've used QR etcetera. This could easily turn into a rant that wouldn't really serve you, because in this matchup quick reactions, experience and studying habits etcetera is what really helps and that isn't something I can just tell you to do or learn, especially when your game wasn't really that flawed, you played well.

But it's pointless to stare yourself blind at specific spots in a match, my point was that there are spots where you could've thrown out a 720 with a high or guaranteed chance or catching Litchi.

I can't accuretely judge or give you specific tips if I don't watch a bunch of your matches versus said Litchi player, so feel free to post more matches.

I've played Tager for about little over one and a half year and I'm faily good with him, but I'm infamous for sucking at giving tips, which is why I mostly lurk. I only tend to confuse people.

Never understood why people are in the habit of calling people "new" or noobs.

DoomieJ

DoomieJ

Posted
Posted
You miss recoveries (blue beat).

You often fall for IAD jump ins, maybe practice on doing a 623C/2C on reaction to that or block high.

Try not to let the opponent control the pace, too often you simply remain passive and wait for the opponent to come to you. Break their flow.

Rest is mostly just practice and experience. But mastery of the 720 makes this matchup less painful.

Ive played LK a lot in person, i dont need to see the vid. I can tell you that your advice is wrong. If he would have 2c'd or collidered, he would have gotten counter hit. neither of those moves is a proper reversal. LK is not a fucking slouch. Maybe it would work 1 out of 5 times....and think about those other 4. Oh yeah, your fucking dead if you make that many mistakes flailing about pushing buttons.

Control Space? Tager v Litchi? I want to see a fucking video of you doing it. And if its against someone who is obviously under your skill level, than i know why you think you can do such a stupid thing.

The only thing you got right is knowing when to IB720. And axis can do this. I believe in him. I had my doubts, but he does know what hes doing.

I dont even play this game anymore. Argh.

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted

I brought up elements you could improved upon, I didn't rack on your inability to block IAD overheads or calling you slow. I learned that the hard way, learning to deal with Bang and Litchi was a grueling nightmare (mind you, it still isn't "even").

You missed a few spots where you could've caught Litchi in a 720.

And don't forget about quick rise and that you cancel it into an offensive move (like a 360) or BB.

At 1:15 I wouldn't call it legit and you could've used QR etcetera. This could easily turn into a rant that wouldn't really serve you, because in this matchup quick reactions, experience and studying habits etcetera is what really helps and that isn't something I can just tell you to do or learn, especially when your game wasn't really that flawed, you played well.

here's the thing about 1:15.

last night I was informed that that was chou's setup...I have never seen it, all I know was he had a daisharin and my best bet was to get myself out of the situation, granted you cannot cross up a 720 but keep this in mind, I didn't tech neutral on my own, the first hit of daisharin forced an emergency tech and then he crossed me up, I didn't even know I would be forced to tech and get caught in a cross under and with daisharin behind me for insurance I sure as hell wouldn't try buffering one.

its one of those times where buffering a 720 was too risky to even think about, lets see lose 50 meter and get hit for 4-5k into oki.

ouch.

IB 720 litchi? I can but he jumps too damn much.

thanks doomie.

Skye

Skye

Posted
Posted

I dont even play this game anymore. Argh.

The Tokido effect.

brofist

brofist

Posted
Posted
me vs LK.

I tried my best to play the match up...fuck my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6cF_9cuPIs

thanks for the advice leo, I'll try that.

Just saw this, and being the scrubby tager player I am, thought I'd comment.

@1:15, wouldn't a Counter Assault have worked? I mean, sure you wouldn't have been able to use the 50 heat later, or safely continue a combo (maybe a Collider after, as it has invincibility during the throw), but that could have saved the round.

Again, just a scrub with a thought or two.

Isorropia

Isorropia

Posted
Posted

Tager's counter assault is horrendous. It starts up slowly and has a pathetically small hitbox. In fact, looking at that, if he blocked the crossup correctly and CA'd her, I'm pretty sure the daisharin's next hit would hit tager out of the CA recovery. >.>

A.X.I.S.

A.X.I.S.

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually when I did 6B that was me doing counter assault but he crossed me up and didn't hit me.

1st tourney match and I played really poorly...I know the match up but...fuck passive jins.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sukairefurai#p/u/2/SiAubCitgdA

http://www.youtube.com/user/Sukairefurai#p/u/1/hSSKS_Yzves

edit: He played aggressively that day...lol I suck.

Edited by A.X.I.S.
Heroic_Legacy

Heroic_Legacy

Posted
Posted

So I watched those SCR vids. Once again, major lack of instant blocking.

I will never understand why nobody but myself attempts to instant block everything that is seen.

Also, how come Mike Z gets to pick on the free guys? Combo droppers and what not.

DJ Koopa

DJ Koopa

Posted
Posted (edited)

Man, I wish I could attend a touney... but I'm over here in Pittsburgh and poor with no transportation... Sigh.

Anyways, some more online replays stuff with my cheapo camera. >_>

Tager v Tager

Tager v Ragna

Bang v Tager

Tager v Ragna again. Lol, Double Down

Tager v Tsubaki lol Double Down again. Even more funny, this is the ~very next match~ after Ragna.

Tager v Unlimited Litchi

Hazama v Tager

Tager v Arakune God, the bees.... THE BEEEEEES!!! 100+ RED BEAT 10K COMBO NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

I think the only thing bugging me anymore is...I can never play a consistant game. One day, I'm snatching everything out of the air, never missing a beat. The next day, I'm dropping ACs and screwing up the timing on Terra Breaks and can't get my tech traps down. Next day I have a completely different gameplan from two days ago... Hell, all last week, I forgot that 6A can cancel into 2C. And for some reason, I would still try to do it but use 2B instead and get pissed because I couldn't remember that's not what it really was.

Maybe I need a joystick or something. 623/421 doesn't like to come out well on the 360's stick... It's the corners (which work wonders on the GCN's octagon stick borders). There's no way to adjust the deadzone to my preferences and I hate it.

Edited by DJ Koopa
Heroic_Legacy

Heroic_Legacy

Posted
Posted

[edit] I hate IBing. Rather not risk missing the block - personal preference. :^)

Gotcha. I understand that one. I just see no reason to not instant block if you have confidence you can do it. I basically taught Chicago BB scene to instant block and it paid off. Valkenhayn is poop over here. Not to mention Robo Ky is broken right now since IB'ing with him gives you almost a full bar every hit.

Mike Z

Mike Z

Posted
Posted

Chi-town GG already knew about IBing, they were hella good beforehand...haha.

Also, my IB preference changed from GG to BB - in GG, going from 4 to 1 (or 1 to 4) counted as a IB attempt; in BB, you have to stop holding Back, which makes it much less a choice for me,

Heroic_Legacy

Heroic_Legacy

Posted
Posted

Ukyo and Jerry are the only ones who live in Chicago that are actively playing Drinking.

Anyway, good job Tager players making people look bad. :yaaay:

Darlos9D

Darlos9D

Posted
Posted

Mike, in that first match against Donovan I kinda facepalmed with the Sledge B->Sledge A Whiff->720 setup in the second round. I thought everyone was used to that gimmick since CT, haha. I'm surprised to see people still eat that at tournament level.

I'd instant block more if I wasn't playing online all the time. I try, but tend to either get a regular block or no block. I don't take online matches terribly seriously though so it's fun to just mess around, like IBing a hazama chain and then 2Cing him when he pulls himself in. Fun times...

Man, I need to get a video capture device and start uploading some videos.

Also, here's a question for Mike (or anyone else who burst baits a lot): what's your logic for when you decide to try to burst bait? Just when their health is relatively low? During certain points in certain combos? From my standpoint it always just kinda looks like psychic magic. I'd like to be able to do it but I can't really seem to call it very well. I get somebody in a burst with a MTW sometimes, but only rarely.

Heroic_Legacy

Heroic_Legacy

Posted
Posted

Well there's a few factors that go into burst baiting. It works 5x better offline next to your opponent.

First factor is the 'I'm going to die if I eat the rest of this combo so I burst' burst. Like if they burst a 2C FC or they eat spark bolt at 30% left. They have to burst to stay alive so more often than not they will burst before any extra damage is done so they can stay alive if they get hit a few times. It's about minimizing damage at this situation.

Secondly is the momentum of the round. If they are dominating you completely in a round but you squeak out a CH 5C or 360A/B they really want to get back on their feet and continue their game rather than watch your combo. So they'll burst to get you to be thrown away and forced to tech into their mixup.

Mashing. If you hear them go OMG WTF DAMNIT TAGER SO CHEAP BULLSHIT MASH BUTTONS after every hit, I bet they'll burst spark bolt. Trust me, if you can hear mashing, you can bait bursts. I do it offline a lot.

Most bursts however have to be baited on reaction to what they are doing. Don't drop combos because you want to bait a non-crucial burst part of the match. Prove to them you will finish combos. I've seen many a Tager player not followup a 2C fatal because doing voltic charge to block their burst is better than actually doing damage apparently.

There's tons of situations for it, but more often than not it's more reaction than prediction.

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