[CS1] Hakumen vs Hazama

[JackG]

Hazama

Matchup Statistics

Japanese Ranking: 5.5-4.5

Personally:

Because it's Thriller!

Punishes:

Anti-airing:

Zoning:

Their game plan:

Strategy:

Char specific details:

dp is strong. Currently zoning isn't difficult because it's still easy to read hazama players for now, but that may change in the future. Firepower difference, able to cut chains makes this currently slight advantage. (This will probably be even. Hakumen won't be able zone safely once hazama players get good at punish with mizuchi)

[RAQU 17]

Hazama can bait Haku's IAD's jump ins with good enough reflexes. Using a 6D~A as a fake out then using 214D~B for a potential CH combo. Haku's normals are fairly easy to IB Jayoku (236236B) for Hazama as well. Not sure, but you may be able to buffer a Yukikaze in hazama's super flash if he IB'd your attack. This is just what I've noticed thus far fighting against Hakumen.

[qwerty]

i don't have much experience, but it seems pretty heavily stacked in hakumen's favor. from what i can tell, the primary obstacle is figuring out when hazama's gonna cancel his chain and punishing him for it (since he's canceling it for the sole purpose of baiting your j.C/2C).

[Dan_br]

I'm having some trouble dealing with Hazama! How am i supposed to play this match? What are the best ways to get closer to him? Is cutting his drive a good way to avoid it or there are better options?

Thx and sorry about my crap english!

[qwerty]

you don't need to get close man, he needs to get close to you.

keep him away with j.C, 4C, hotaru and whatnot. cut chains when you can, preferably on reaction.

idk man, this is one of the easier matchups if you ask me. hazama is a turtely character by design, and he has to be aggressive against hakumen because you out-turtle him. nothing he has will stuff j.C at it's max range; all he can do is block or get hit if you use it correctly.

[SimpleKiss]

you don't need to get close man, he needs to get close to you.

keep him away with j.C, 4C, hotaru and whatnot. cut chains when you can, preferably on reaction.

idk man, this is one of the easier matchups if you ask me. hazama is a turtely character by design, and he has to be aggressive against hakumen because you out-turtle him. nothing he has will stuff j.C at it's max range; all he can do is block or get hit if you use it correctly.

Pretty much this.

Hazama can't take damage too well, either. as long as you have the life lead, you have control of the match.

[ryokoalways]

Hakumen can just turtle for meter. Hazama will have to be the one to make the first move unless the player wants to fight full meter hakumen. Once you get full meter, just slowly advance towards Hazama. Don't air dash/jump too much, but go for an empty read once in awhile. You can guess wrong twice and still make all the damage back in 1 combo.

Clock control is also important. Hakumen needs to have hp lead when you are approaching 20 seconds.

[Dan_br]

thank you guys for your advices! It helped me a lot against the local hazama.

But i still think that i have difficulty in cutting chains on reaction. Wich normals do you guys consider viable to do this? jC, 4C, j2A, 5C?

[SimpleKiss]

thank you guys for your advices! It helped me a lot against the local hazama.

But i still think that i have difficulty in cutting chains on reaction. Wich normals do you guys consider viable to do this? jC, 4C, j2A, 5C?

At full screen to a little bit farther than mid screen, I find the most effective thing to do is just neutral jump to see what Hazama's reaction will be. If I see any inkling of a snake, I'll j2.A

It works out pretty well for me.

[SirPsychoMantis]

What is the best way to punish a blocked D? I find a lot of people online decide to fly at you even when you block it, but I have not found a great way to punish it (just got the game yesterday).

I know people will learn to not do this eventually but I'd like to take advantage of it now.

[Emba]

6D, if he's just throwing out kicks on the flyin. Maybe 5D if he likes flying in with j.2C. Actually, most of Hakumen's counters should work. You might be able to TK a Hotaru for a combo, not sure on that.

[Spark]

Punishes:

236236B

- Counter if he has enough meter to RC otherwise punish normally.

632146C (Mid Combo)

- There is a reason that you don't see Japanese Hazama's combo into this super, and that's because if you know he's going to do it (usually after a high 623D) you can burst before being hit by it and IAD over to punish.

Anti-airing & Zoning:

Note: Hazama's chains have a different amount of Hitstun and blockstun depending on the distance he is away from you. Around half screen away all his chains will have huge hitstun and blockstun, but any closer and there is almost no stun.

If he is just jumping in with j.B or j.2C you can usually stuff or at least trade with them with 5A or if they're far away enough you can use 5B. If you trade neither person can combo after wards.

Anti-airing Hazama can be tough if he just chains himself in, because he can stick out moves early enough to stuff your anti-air 5A or 5B, but be going fast enough to land and have plenty of frame advantage on block.

However you can avoid most situations where Hazama can chain in on you.

For example if you see him jump into the air, jump into the air with him and be ready to j.2A chains or at least air IB them. If you cut them he won't be able to chain in and if you air IB the chains you have plenty of time to Hotaru them if they decide to chain in. If he doesn't stick out a chain while you're both in the air and you're close enough you can just j.C to push him back towards the corner or CH him if he does decide to do something.

If he uses 5D from the ground to get in you can just 623A under it to avoid it and do the follow up if he decides to pull himself in anyway. Though doing the follow up is more risky because it can miss depending on how he pulls himself in. If he doesn't follow up with anything you can 3C him before he recovers from 5D if you're fast and close enough.

On the ground at mid range Hazama doesn't have much he can do besides 5D as he is out ranged by almost all of Hakumen's normals and with his slow ground dash he has a hard time punishing Hakumen's normals even on whiff.

Strategy:

Pressuring Hazama:

Hakumen's 2A > 6A can be 214A~B or command grabbed out of if he IB's the 2A. Hazama however cannot 214A~B out of 2A > 2A and at the right range his command grab cannot grab you out of it. However he can 236236B between them, so if you think he will do it you can either just wait a little before each 2A to bait it or if he did not IB the 2A you can dash Hotaru to beat it out. If he blocks the dashing Hotaru you are still at frame advantage, so it's not a big deal.

Another good place to dash Hotaru at least once or twice is on his wake up. Because this will discourage him from doing any reversal Jaiyoku's and give you the chance to do your mix up.

Dealing with Hazama mix up:

All of Hazama's mix up usually leads back into itself because they all go into an air combo that ends in j.214B which knocks down leading you back into his mix up.

Note: Hazama can option select Jaiyoku with 214214B on your wake up to punish your forward roll, so be careful about rolling past him to get out of the corner.

6A: No real tricks for dealing with this beyond just watching for it and blocking. Although some players have trouble hit confirm this and just cancel into Jaiyoku right after this, so you get a free combo. Otherwise it's -5 on normal block so you can only punish with 5A, on IB you can punish with a Renka combo.

6B: Not commonly used, I only ever see this move when they messes up 236236B. Can only be punished with 2A or 5A on IB.

214D~Follow ups: This is Hazama's most common mix up option. Many players will go into this stance after 5B or 3C. For Hakumen those that go into this after 3C are the easiest to deal with.

I wrote about this in the Hakumen video thread, but I will sum it up here. When you see Hazama do 3C he can cancel into two things excluding supers, 236D and 214D stance. Hakumen's 3C will beat everything that Hazama does during the 214D stance. It will hit him out of the air if he does the overhead, it will stuff the low, it will hit him if he cancels the stance, and clash if he DPs which you can then cancel into 214A to start a combo. However if Hazama catches on to this he can do 236D after 3C to CH Hakumen's 3C, but on less Hakumen is in the corner Hazama can't combo after wards and if you know he's going to do 236D you can 6D, 2D, or 623AA under it.

So, ideally you only want to 3C when you actually see him do the stance. All this applies to 5B as well, but unlike 3C 5B is safer for Hazama because it can't be punished at all and leads into a lot more things than 3C making it more ambiguous.

236C:

You don't see this being used too often, maybe because it doesn't lead into a lot of damage for the risk involved. Hazama has a slow dash and the grab has short range, so he can't really tick into it as well as other characters with command grabs. So you only really have to worry about this on your wake up.

Char specific details:

Best 1 star throw combo for Hazama that I know of:

BC > 214A > 66 > 5A > 5A > sjc > j.A > j.B > jc > j.2A > j.C

Can 623A under:

2A

5B

5D

236D

214D ~ A

If you 236236D Hazama's chains and 236D he's stuck in hit stop and cannot avoid the counter. All of his chains and 236D are also considered physical attacks as well as projectile, so they can be countered with Hakumen's astral.

Final Note:

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, I'll update if I remember anything else.

[ryokoalways]

Should mention chain cross-up hits, and be aware of early chain cancel traps. Hazama's ability to create openings at distance are actually fairly gimmicky if the opponent plays the zoning game well imo.

Appreciate the write-up, some good information I was unaware of.

[Tizoc789]

Anyone got any good match vids to showcase this match-up?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Anyone got any good match vids to showcase this match-up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUfWdPE-UMg

[FLAMING LIPS 79]

thanks for the vid link, and tips. this is one of the more frustrating matchups for me in CS right now. after playing CT just for fun i decided to take CS, and Haku more seriously. so it's been tough trying to break myself of bad habits, while actually trying to learn the correct way to play Hakumen, his combos, and other characters as well.

[BladeOfJustice7]

thanks for the vid link, and tips. this is one of the more frustrating matchups for me in CS right now. after playing CT just for fun i decided to take CS, and Haku more seriously. so it's been tough trying to break myself of bad habits, while actually trying to learn the correct way to play Hakumen, his combos, and other characters as well.

Watch your replays both wins and losses and compare them to how pros play both offline and online. Preferably offline japanese players are the best, them and spark. That's how you improve, along with reading about the match ups.

[Munich Girls]

Some thoughts on slashing Hazama's chains:

I would think that a small offensive edge goes beyond blocking, so I find myself doing this fairly often. Once you've played your opponent for a while chances are you can accurately predict when they'll chain; slashing them at the right time becomes easy.

However, to get the black ball to appear depends from chain direction + slash direction - otherwise it'll just clash.. At best I've been able to react to a forward or neutral jumping downward chain coming at me with 1C. This doesn't work on ground though. Air-to-air chains can be countered with j.C, can work as reaction. Also, I've been able to counter a ground chain with a quick backjump j. C (talking CT input here, I think it's j. 6C in CS?) or j. 1A.

Note however that some moves are way too slow for anyone to be able to REACT to a chain coming at you. It's also very susceptible to mix-up confusion.

[RealBusa]

What has worked with me (quite well actually) against Hazama is to airdash in with j2A since it has a quicker activation then j2C, the hit frames last longer, and it covers a wider area then j5c. Since most hazama players will automatically throw a 6D chain (or equivalent) I can get a void 9 times out of 10 and if they have already pulled to it ecpecting to combo they hit the void and you can 5C into a combo. Either way it gets me close and in a close range fight Hazama doesnt stand a chance.

[Munich Girls]

I can second that. I've found j. 2C to be the best overall in void shenanigans, the hit "arc" and hitbox are perfect and it seems to be that whatever angle the chain comes from, it doesn't clash. Works on ground-to-ground if you quickly jump, and I recall it works ground-to-air as well.

To elaborate, j. C air-to-air works usually only on prediction, the positive side here is though that since the frontal range is so good with it it covers up a little of space for you for a while.

[mikenapalm]

What has worked with me (quite well actually) against Hazama is to airdash in with j2A since it has a quicker activation then j2C, the hit frames last longer, and it covers a wider area then j5c. Since most hazama players will automatically throw a 6D chain (or equivalent) I can get a void 9 times out of 10 and if they have already pulled to it ecpecting to combo they hit the void and you can 5C into a combo. Either way it gets me close and in a close range fight Hazama doesnt stand a chance.

My local Haku player would do this. I think I beat him pretty clean with a dash 5c AA into air combo(or 623D to put him in the corner) most of the times he tried it.(i think he traded/ beat me if the j.2a was really close/low) I think 214D~B also scored me a clean counter hit as well.(not sure if i had time to charge for FC) With Hazamas back to the corner and/or meter that could end up with some big damage and corner oki.

Haku's j.C felt like it would stuff that or trade most of the time with proper distance. And j.D would beat it too obviously.

Also, we're both pretty scrub. So I wouldnt take this to heart.

[Shinso]

Some days ago in my country, we are having a BBCS tournament. I get through to the final, facing Hazama and lose there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjj25HwS9KI&feature=player_embedded

My Haku is agresive one, though in this match, looks like I get baited to hit his snake, so I became less agresive and eat his many throw/gasaisho... turtling against may not work if his snake got through haku's sword/defense => he come forward => then he use the mind games... attack while in the air, attack low after landing, or grab me with his throw/gasaisho...

Can anyone here give me a tips for beating this kind of Hazama...? TK Hotaru do works, but looks like my muscle memory isn't ready for that yet...

[psycofang2]

ok as a fellow aggressive haku i can help you some. with my own experiences vs good hazamas.

you were fighting the match up correctly : Zoning until you can get in. barrier, get 1 step closer.

heres what i saw that lead to your loss.

1) no mix ups, dude as an agrro haku who was sitting on 5 stars you can turn that match so far in your favor. mix up with renka or TK tsubaki 2147C.

if TK tsubaki lands go 5C enma combo or 2B gurren combo.

2) waaaay too many grabs he was grabbed so much he was conditioned into expecting them. so that option became almost useless after the 1st few times.

no overhead? i mean yeah 6B is ok to make ppl guard high so you can go for a renka (because it hits low) into a combo but dont hesitate to use it because you can D cancel it or leave it alone, once he gets hit by the D cancel enough he most likely wont try to punish it anymore.

3) you poked good job but you did nothing off of it. also about that constsant IADing into his chains, dude when you have a barrier dont IAD unless they whiff a move, just move in slowly. ppl expect haku to IAD when he has a barrier.

4) spacing, oi i saw too much getting near him or behind him and doing nothing but jumping back. dont GIVE hazama distance, close it the distance slowly.

5) i saw you get hit be ol' hazamas invincible DP while you left the barrier. inside the barrier id use 6C to eat 2 of his primers 3 if you are fast enough while IN the barrier at that range.

6) too much IADing in general, that hazama started jDing at every chance knowing you would jump.

7) hazamas command grab is only good at very close distance. try pressuring with hakumen 2A at max "2A" distance. you'll gain stars and he cant do much.

also control you urge to jump.

8) vs hazamas jayoku in the air Barrier in the super flash and watch his meter. if you are pressuring him and he has meter expect a jayoku so be prepared for it.

you are not as aggressive as you may think, you are but you share a similar trait with another haku friend of mine in this forum he conserves too many stars and does nothing with it. you are more agile, and defensive. also never enma in block strings. either mix up with renka <---- mostly guarded against due to it being a low or zantetsu or tsubaki they are both highs and are usually least expected. grab less, more overheads, pressure with 2A, remain at a close and safe distance, and IAD when its safe not when you can.

oh and mind yorself an aggresive hakus play style is probably the most dangerous so do be careful.

[zdravkelja]

''More overheads''

This. Tsubaki is your friend.

[Takanub]

About overheads can Hazama buffer his 214d-b while he neutral techs?

I normally throw out a couple of 5a's after 6b and I've been counter hit by that kick while going for the pokes.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Takanub