[CS1] Noel Guide

[Dorian]

3c 22bc 66c 5d 2d 623d 6c j.d 6d 6b 5b 5c 236d (4.5kish + optional Fenrir into 5k+)

I can never get this to connect. I do 3c and 22bc fine but the dash always whifs

What do you mean the dash whiffs? Do you mean the dash doesn't come out? The timing is changed from CT, you have to wait until the animation is resetting, and thusly you have to be a lot sharper in your timing.

I skimmed the topic so forgive me if I missed this; but in relation to Noel's drive moves is there any negligible difference when using the standard 6B->5C/5C->6B drive link? I did short tests and the proration is identical more or less (2D d.6a d.6C 214A 2B 6C J.D 6D (d.6B d.5C/d.5C d.6B (1 Damage difference o_O)) 236D). I haven't yet bothered trying this on the rest but neither whiffed so I was wondering if there was something I missed? Or is it legit to use either order?

[Mizzet]

Either order is fine for 95% of the times you do it. I have found however that 5c 6b does like, 4-5 more damage compared to 6b 5c lol. Negligible, but still a difference. Also, at the end of some very long combos, 6b 5c will not combo and your opponent will tech out as d.6b doesn't stun for a very long time. The reverse is fine however, d.5c has excellent hitstun. You should pretty much do 5c 6b all the time.

The only time I do d.6b d.5c is if I have meter to burn and want to combo into super. That way I can go from 6b 5c into j.d Fenrir.

[FunkyP]

I've noticed d.5c > d.6b crosses up sometimes depending on how you spaced the beginning of the combo, something to keep in mind if you want someone in the corner.

[Dorian]

Interesting, and thanks for the tidbit. What originally sparked this was aside from noticing the 'random' deviations in the combos, I was being lazy and hoping I could just utilize my old muscle memory from the 6C loop.

[Runis]

Fatty corner combo -

3C 22BC (6C 22B)xN 66C 4D 236D 6C 5D 6B 5B 5C jc jD 6D 236D

Max is 4 loops, 3 if you want to fenrir. You can also put a 22B 66C between the 236D 6C and the 5D 6B if the character you're doing the loop on is too small to do all the loops in the first part..

4 loops Does 4.8k raw, 5684 with Fenrir version. Non fenrir version generates 64 heat, Fenrir version generates 60 heat.

You can also kinda do this mid screen with 5 loops max into 5D 6B 5C jc jD 6D 236D. but still it's a funny combo to land.

Small character's it's hard to space but the 22b 66C works on tager,Rachel, tao, ragna, jin, caruru, Arakune so far - still testing

Also on a trolling point of view, 3C 22BC 66C 22B 6C 22B 66C 22B 6C 22B 66C 22B 66C 5D 6B 5C jc jD 214214C works from 55 Starting Heat and only just doesn't do enough damage to kill Tager before the astral comes out.

[Austin_QED]

I take it you mean jump cancelling the 5C in the chain revolver at the end? I do it a couple frames after the 5C hits. If you're still having trouble, try holding 9 from the instant after you input the 5C. Don't try to input other commands, just input 9. At the point when Noel is free to jump, she will. That should give you a visual indication of the correct timing.

No, after the 66c, either I dash and whiff, or it'll come out too far away.

[Halcyone3]

No, after the 66c, either I dash and whiff, or it'll come out too far away.

haidas are quite spacing dependant. U pretty much have to know how much to dash for the 6C depending on the opponent, no remedy for that except practice. Start with huge targets like tager an work your way through the other characters as you become more used to it.

[DC]

Anyone else wonder what the fuck was the point of having 2d (rc) 3c combos in challenge mode? lol It's not like 2d is any type of... idk... OVERHEAD.

[Doren2k]

2D still a good crossup though!

[FunkyP]

2D has a magic hitbox that goes over like a ton of stuff

[Dorian]

Dat magic hitbox. 2D has served me very well in my experience; even if my brain decides to stop working I just auto-pilot do the input and 90% of the time it connects, to my happy surprise. The hitboxes in this game make me sad at times :'(

[dragontamer]

Anyone else wonder what the fuck was the point of having 2d (rc) 3c combos in challenge mode? lol It's not like 2d is any type of... idk... OVERHEAD.

Its a decent frametrap from 2C. If you can train your opponent to attack after 2C, then 2D and 3C tend to beat whever they're about to do. Plus, 100% P1 and 90% P2 makes it a good combo starter technically.

[DC]

lol there are many safe attacks people can spam after 2c that will beat 2d clean.

[FunkyP]

lol there are many safe attacks people can spam after 2c that will beat 2d clean.

There are just as many that don't whats your point?

[Doom Dragon 103]

Were in FL are you DC? I'm in Miami and no one plays-_-

Well no they do, but its far

[Mizzet]

I think the odd thing about it is you will usually get more damage from 2d doing a normal combo and using that heat for a distortion at the end anyway. Even more so if it's CH 2d. The exceptions would be some situational and execution heavier corner setups.

[dragontamer]

I think the odd thing about it is you will usually get more damage from 2d doing a normal combo and using that heat for a distortion at the end anyway. Even more so if it's CH 2d. The exceptions would be some situational and execution heavier corner setups.

I agree there. I haven't played around much, but 2D -> 5D -> 6A -> 6C -> 2D -> 623D -> 66C etc. etc. does a fair amount of damage. I haven't even tried to optimize it yet....

And yes, the "inside a drive" 2D is a different move than "starter" 2D. So you can use them both in a combo without activating the Same Move Proration Penalty.

[Mizzet]

Oh, is that so, does that apply to all her different drives? When I was optimizing her combos I ran into cases where I could use certain moves twice, like 5d, without hurting the overall damage - back then I chalked it up to 5d prorating extremely generously, since it's a D move and all. That's interesting.

[Halcyone3]

And yes, the "inside a drive" 2D is a different move than "starter" 2D. So you can use them both in a combo without activating the Same Move Proration Penalty.

that RLY is interesting, didn't know that

[DC]

There are just as many that don't whats your point?

Because a smart opponent will know there are relatively safe things to press after 2c.

Were in FL are you DC? I'm in Miami and no one plays-_-

Well no they do, but its far

South Fl. A lot of people play around here.

And yes, the "inside a drive" 2D is a different move than "starter" 2D. So you can use them both in a combo without activating the Same Move Proration Penalty.

Yeah. I've always thought that the starter 2d should be an overhead while the drive 2d should not. Imo would make more sense but I guess it would be too confusing? w/e

[dragontamer]

Oh, is that so, does that apply to all her different drives? When I was optimizing her combos I ran into cases where I could use certain moves twice, like 5d, without hurting the overall damage - back then I chalked it up to 5d prorating extremely generously, since it's a D move and all. That's interesting.

Starter 2D and 5D (and d.5D) have pretty mediocre P2 for a drive move actually. d.2D strangely enough is one of the best... only d.6C is better from a damage / proration point of view. d.2D is better than even bloom trigger.

Because a smart opponent will know there are relatively safe things to press after 2c.

2C -> 3C is a 3-frame trap, meaning normal blocking 2C and attempting to jump will get caught by the 3C. The slow low-crush moves that beat 3C will be beaten by 2C -> 2D.

Not that 2D is a good idea after 2C... but there are plenty of ways to punish an opponent who mashes after 2C. Hell, you're +1 frames, so 2C -> 5C is probably going to stuff whatever they try to do.

[DC]

Not trying to instigate, but 2c, being a multihit attack, is one of the easier attacks to instant block in the game. I have many friends that do this, having seen the attack a million times.

[dragontamer]

Not trying to instigate, but 2c, being a multihit attack, is one of the easier attacks to instant block in the game. I have many friends that do this, having seen the attack a million times.

2C, being a multi-hit attack, can be canceled on the first hit. So while your argument applies to 2C -> 5C, it does not apply to 2C -> 2D / 3C.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, going 3C every time is a bad idea. However, 2C -> 3C is the very core of what Noel is: high risk, high reward. (and unfortunately... she's at the moment a "high reward, higher risk kind of character )

[Hellmonkey]

2c 2d or 3c as a block string are awful

[dragontamer]

2c 2d or 3c as a block string are awful

I agree. However, the argument currently is pretty specific. I'm saying 2C -> 3C is a good punish for opponents who think that mashing attacks after 2C is a good idea. 90% of the time, I'll be doing 2C -> block... but if I notice an opponent is a bit too dedicated to attacking after 2C, I'll be ready to 2C -> 3C to punish him. (EDIT: hmm... maybe 99% of the time I'd do 2C -> block)

2D is in a similar boat, although it is a bit slower but has a nice hitbox and beats out people who mash 2A. 2D is also slightly safer on block than 3C. Not much safer, but you can sometimes do a random 623D after a 2D. 2D -> d.5A has also become an option as a ~3-frame trap off of 2D. Not a good block string by any stretch of the imagination (especially because d.5A doesn't have anything but a delayed 623D to punish opponents with...) but its not "totally free -18 frames counterhit + crouching state punish" like a blocked 3C is.