LunaKage Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 That kind of thing may work in Japan, but using Noel's normals in America(and Canada by proxy) will only get your normals killed by people mashing a random move. my 5C was stuffed at max range, by Lambda's 5A, and I sobbed.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 You just have to be close to the ground to use j.d cancel? She either does the ground D or j.d with her guns almost to the ground. I guess I haven't found the right spot.
kuma Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 It's also possible that you're holding down D too long (although a bit less likely). If you hold down D, she'll actually ground cancel the j.D into a d.5D due to the 5x button input. This can be useful. It means that you can ground cancel into 236D, 214D, and 263D without pressing the D button twice, but it can mess you up when trying to cancel into other moves if you aren't thinking about it.
dragontamer Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 That kind of thing may work in Japan, but using Noel's normals in America(and Canada by proxy) will only get your normals killed by people mashing a random move. my 5C was stuffed at max range, by Lambda's 5A, and I sobbed. This does happen. None of Noel's hitboxes are disjoint, while most of your opponents will have a disjoint hitbox. Basically, Noel doesn't have any "priority" on her attacks. Its something you just need to factor into your gameplay. It is possible to play Noel like that, you just need to know when and where you can poke, and how to counter-rushdown your opponents.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 It's also possible that you're holding down D too long (although a bit less likely). If you hold down D, she'll actually ground cancel the j.D into a d.5D due to the 5x button input. This can be useful. It means that you can ground cancel into 236D, 214D, and 263D without pressing the D button twice, but it can mess you up when trying to cancel into other moves if you aren't thinking about it. Okay I got it to work with her finishers but not with any other drive moves.
dragontamer Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 That kind of thing may work in Japan, but using Noel's normals in America(and Canada by proxy) will only get your normals killed by people mashing a random move. my 5C was stuffed at max range, by Lambda's 5A, and I sobbed. My advice was ambiguous and imprecise earlier. Sorry about that. Here's a real solution: punish mashers. Figure out when and where they are mashing, and then punish them for it. 5A mash can often be beaten by 3C for example. More importantly, when rushing down the opponent, use frame-traps and counter-hit combos to severely punish your opponent's mashing. 5A -> 2C (COUNTER!!) -> 3C -> Haida or 5A -> 2C (COUNTER!) -> 5D -> combo are both useful. 2D can punish grab / counter-grab attempts with 4.3k combos easily, and over 5k in the corner with fenrir. Bait and punish. Mashing included: mashing itself is a strategy you must overcome if you want to get better. Its not enough to know how to play at a high level: you must also know how to force your opponent into the high level play.
whitevoid Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 That kind of thing may work in Japan, but using Noel's normals in America(and Canada by proxy) will only get your normals killed by people mashing a random move. my 5C was stuffed at max range, by Lambda's 5A, and I sobbed. TBH, if you get beat by mashing you probably were mashing yourself or they weren't actually mashing.
kuma Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 TBH, if you get beat by mashing you probably were mashing yourself or they weren't actually mashing. You're wrong. You can play on auto-pilot using sound strategies and good techniques against a masher and lose. Mashing beats a bunch of Noel's tactics outright. That isn't to say that fighting mashers is hard. You just have to play in a style that takes their mashing into account, rather than doing the same old same old. You have to know how to do this against good players, too. I know that when I'm facing someone against whom mashing works, I do it. You have to be able to change the battle so that the other player knows that mashing is dangerous. Then you can actually start the serious match.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 I play against Ragnas, Bangs, and Litchis that do the same thing every match so often that when I go against someone mashing random attacks I don't know what to do.
dragontamer Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 I play against Ragnas, Bangs, and Litchis that do the same thing every match so often that when I go against someone mashing random attacks I don't know what to do. There's your mistake. What are they mashing? You should never come onto a forum and say "mashing random attacks". Everyone has a strategy. What attacks are beating you? Is it Bang's 5A? When are they beating you? Is Bang using quick-rise 5A or is he using 2A / 623B on your Oki? Is Litchi beating you with j.B or 5B? Is Ragna mashing Inferno Divider? There's so many different ways an opponent can mash, I simply can't give you advice until you can tell me precisely what your opponents do. Even random mashers push certain buttons more than other buttons. You need to train yourself to see what your opponent is doing. Come back when you can describe to me your opponent's strategy precisely. Knowing your opponent is the first step of battle. Its never truely random, your opponent has a pattern. 1. Figure out your opponent's pattern. 2. Figure out a way to beat it 3. Execute your plan
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Yeah saying random attacks wasn't right. They're just doing something I haven't seen others do. I get frustrated that I keep dropping my own combos and not blocking. I don't really know the other character's attacks but I think it is Litchi's B, Bang's doing 5A 3C over and over, and Ragna doing 5B and inferno divider spam. I try to get close and I always get beat out. Eventually that damage starts to add up and I lose.
dragontamer Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Block Bang's attacks and then counter-pressure him when he gets holes in his pressure. If Litchi whiffs a B, run in and start your pressure. Block Inferno Divider and do your most powerful counter-hit combos (lots of ways to get to 5k easily on counter-hit). Surely its not "just" Litchi's 5B and Bang's 5A 3C.
ThunderboltZ28 Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 No. Those are just the ones I can think of. Like I said I don't know the other characters very well.
dragontamer Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Don't read that as an insult, read it as a challenge to you :-) There comes a point in the game where you have to learn all of the characters, just enough so that you know how to counter whatever they try to do against you. Noel is considered to be a mid/low tier character, so you'll reach that point before your friends. Anyway, keep an eye out. When does litchi use 5B? Can you read your opponent well enough to use 5D's invincibility as a punish? Or is your opponent good enough to be somewhat unpredictable? Reading your opponent in this game is of utmost importance... Litchi's Bs and Bang's As are very powerful in this game. So yes, i can imagine them shutting you down with those moves + combos off those moves. Still, there is probably more to it than that: are they air dashing? Are they running on the ground? There's lots of ways for them to start the attack, and Noel's best move depends on what they do.
LunaKage Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 TBH, if you get beat by mashing you probably were mashing yourself or they weren't actually mashing. I got STUFFED by a masher, I don't recall saying I was beaten. I ended up eating the guy for breakfast, it was 5am after all. But thanks for assuming things, really nice of you.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hey quick question, how many characters does 5D, D.6A , D.6C , 214A work on? I had some trouble doing it vs some characters.
LunaKage Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hey quick question, how many characters does 5D, D.6A , D.6C , 214A work on? I had some trouble doing it vs some characters. All of them, but not while crouching.
whitevoid Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 You're wrong. You can play on auto-pilot using sound strategies and good techniques against a masher and lose. Mashing beats a bunch of Noel's tactics outright. That isn't to say that fighting mashers is hard. You just have to play in a style that takes their mashing into account, rather than doing the same old same old. You have to know how to do this against good players, too. I know that when I'm facing someone against whom mashing works, I do it. You have to be able to change the battle so that the other player knows that mashing is dangerous. Then you can actually start the serious match. Uh, no. You are wrong. You're just making excuses for yourself. If you are playing "auto-pilot," then you are mashing, at least in my eyes. When I say "mash" I don't mean literally frantically pressing buttons, I mean pressing buttons without formulating a strategy. My point is if you are playing in a way that is disconnected from what is going on in the match, then you might as well just be frantically pressing buttons for all it's worth. It doesn't matter how "sound or good" that is, it's still mashing. Don't be another flow-chart Ken.
whitevoid Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I got STUFFED by a masher, I don't recall saying I was beaten. I ended up eating the guy for breakfast, it was 5am after all. But thanks for assuming things, really nice of you. So what on earth are you complaining about then? QQ.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Oh sweet thanks. also what I like doing is 5D, D.6A , D.6C , 214A , 2B , 6C , J.D , 6D , D.6B , D.5C , 236D Does the 6D only wiff on like, carl?
LunaKage Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 So what on earth are you complaining about then? QQ. I just want my normals back ;-;
Konton Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Oh sweet thanks. also what I like doing is 5D, D.6A , D.6C , 214A , 2B , 6C , J.D , 6D , D.6B , D.5C , 236D Does the 6D only wiff on like, carl? The whole combo should work on Carl, too. Keep in mind that if they are crouching (you have plenty of time to confirm their status during 6c's hit animation) you need to change it up to 5d -> 6a -> 6c -> 6d -> spring raid -> 66c -> ender.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 The whole combo should work on Carl, too. Keep in mind that if they are crouching (you have plenty of time to confirm their status during 6c's hit animation) you need to change it up to 5d -> 6a -> 6c -> 6d -> spring raid -> 66c -> ender. Oh ok thank you!
LunaKage Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 The whole combo should work on Carl, too. Keep in mind that if they are crouching (you have plenty of time to confirm their status during 6c's hit animation) you need to change it up to 5d -> 6a -> 6c -> 6d -> spring raid -> 66c -> ender. I usually throw in a 2D before spring raid for a bit of extra damage, makes the 66C link a tad harder though, not that big of a deal though.
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